Please give us 2 team battlegrounds

CriticalToli

First of all, 0 cares if such topic has been already created, since what I (not only I) ask for, is still not in the game, here is another one:
- I am sure a lot of players, especially those coming from other mmos are missing team vs team battlegrounds and / or arenas.
- Personally for me this is literally the only thing, that really pisses me (not only me tho) off in this otherwise really great game (actually being unable to watch what other people wear too, but thats another story).
- WHy can't Zenimax and Bethesda just give us an option where we can select to queue for 4v4 (6v6, 8v8) or 4v4v4 / 3v3v3?
- maybe even add a free for all deathmatch or arenas (smaller battleground hardcore deathmatch) with 2v2 3v3 4v4??
- why does it have to be team vs team vs team all the time - side note it is actually never really like 4v4v4 or 3v3v3 more like 4v8 or 3v6 and 3 noobs running around without a clue waht to do or even more ridiculous chaotic *** ***, excusemoir my french. also please do not try to explain it by ye well it is this way bcuz of 3 factions, for this there is another place - Cyrodiil.
- people just run around and watch for opportunities to ks, hunt noobs, 2v1 the bad luck team or be a snitch in any other way the 3 teams constellation creates, you know what i mean xD.

Short: devs, pls give 2 teams bgs, thank you.

Bashev

2 teams battlegrounds could work only with objectives. For a deathmatch it will be clear who will be the winner after the first fight.

CriticalToli

Bashev wrote: »

2 teams battlegrounds could work only with objectives. For a deathmatch it will be clear who will be the winner after the first fight.

Idk why you think it would be clear after the first fight, nvm actually because deathmatch was only an example, maybe not the best, it does not matter.
I am absolutely positive about 2 teams battlegrounds with objectives or just copies from all the existing battlegrounds modes but for two teams.

brandonv516

Bashev wrote: »

2 teams battlegrounds could work only with objectives. For a deathmatch it will be clear who will be the winner after the first fight.

In many cases yes. Although that's how it is already with 3 teams if one of them is a premade.

That being said, I'd rather be playing for second place than last even though it's still a loss.

ChaosWotan

BG will never be fair as long as there isn't a division system as in soccer. Today, BG is like having football games where a Premier League player is sometimes forced to play against couch potatoes who prefer to watch soccer on a tv screen.

Maybe the solution is to have six divisjons, from idiot level (my favourite) to God, where each of us can freely decide the level we want to play, with the exception that a gamer is automatically kicked up/down 1 or more levels if the system detects that his or her k/d ratio is very different from the k/d of other players on the same level.

kalunte

impossible to do without a real, efficient, clear and reliable ranking system that shows each other who's who (almost) like chaos said.

and like brandonv516 said, you can guess who will win after few encouters who will win in many cases. The fight for the 2nd place can be fun while being rekt for 15min by the same guy (or farm the same guys for 15min) isnt this fun at all.. 'better fight for the 2nd

to me the 3team system allows a bit more of strategic play too and fits better to ESO right now.

idk

Bashev wrote: »

2 teams battlegrounds could work only with objectives. For a deathmatch it will be clear who will be the winner after the first fight.

I have seen death match work fine with 4v4 in other games. However, it was a design that was intended for more skilled players.

Edit: However, if Zos added this with Deathmatch then that should be for group only. No solo queue since ESO;'s design has to fast of a TTK unless you have a super tanky build and with some builds overshadow skill.

Bashev

idk wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

2 teams battlegrounds could work only with objectives. For a deathmatch it will be clear who will be the winner after the first fight.

I have seen death match work fine with 4v4 in other games. However, it was a design that was intended for more skilled players. Considering ESO's design a players build can easily overshadow their skill so it would be very different here.

In the end I agree that 4v4 (or 8v8) should be objective based. It would make very little difference to those who prefer death match if it is XvXvX or XvX.

The reason why 3 teams deathmatch works better in ESO is because there is the random element of what will be the build of your teammamtes. If it happens that all 4 ppl are mobile burst dps players they cannot handle 4 dps/support players in direct fight. But if there is another team involved they can move in a team and burst and get kills when the other 2 teams fight.

I doubt that the devs can calculate what is your build doing as u can swap skills and offensive stats can be used for healing or for dps.

ChaosWotan

Calculating k/d differences between good and bad players should be easy enough, I assume.

But there is still the problem of elite gamers not having enough equally talented players to compete with on the highest level. But can't this be solved if a very good gamer is given a debuff/handicap that increases the lower level (s)he decides to play when his or her equals are not online? Creating an algorithm that fairly calculates this debuff/handicap is more difficult however, I guess.

Thogard

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

Jpk0012

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

Seems to work in that other game...

Morgul667

I love the 3 team dynamics

NekoN3ko

3 Team is great - cant spawn camp and it follows the theme if this game.

CriticalToli

Yeah ok, I really get what all the people are trying to say, but would it hurt to add the same stuff that already exists but for 2 teams and decide later???? This would not affect what battlegrounds are for everyone now in any way, and everyone would get what they prefer.
You can construct whatever your imagination says and put it into a good shape with rhetorics or make other stuff look bad, but we will really only know for sure if zenimax would actually add 2 teams battlegrounds into the game, period.
Honestly what I really would like to read is an official statement from the people working at zenimax who have contact with developer team who codes pvp.
Being a programmer myself I can tell that making 2 teams bgs would not be hard at all, because of the already existing stuff.
Maybe as part of a new event for test purposes and then implement in base game, if it is liked by the community?

Thogard

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

Seems to work in that other game...

It works in games with cool downs.

In ESO it would only work if there was significant balance redesign. Even in No CP it’s too easy to build to be unkillable.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Thogard wrote: »

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

Seems to work in that other game...

It works in games with cool downs.

In ESO it would only work if there was significant balance redesign. Even in No CP it’s too easy to build to be unkillable.

While I agree partially, I think it would force team coordination to be that much more crucial to a team. I used to play high end WoW arena and gladiator in all brackets. Shadow priest + Druid + hunter could absolutely murder a resource fight and was extremely tough comp. you could still beat this it just took coordination being a well timed CC, the right target focus, target switches, forcing abilities to be used at inopportune times, etc. I think it could work but idk a 4v4 would be challenging. Maybe a 3v3 would be more appropriate for a 2 team format. 4 mans mean atleast 2 healing ultis on rotation. 3 teams would force an interesting mix in composition between 2 dps, 1dps 1 support, 2 healers, etc. idk but at this point I’d welcome any change for BGs they’re getting extremely stale.

exeeter702

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

2 team bgs wont work if you simply convert the current instanced pvp bg system eso incorporates into 2 team affairs.

Proper, objective based designed bgs with maps designed for specific game modes absolutely would have worked. Esos combat design is not so unique or foreign that it is incompatible when using other mmos as comparisons for how to do actual good 2 team bg/wz's.

I do agree however that CDs play a big part in balance, but i dont think it is a major outlier, and is more an issue for arena based small scale tdms. For larger objextive based BGs this would not be a major issue unless you sent one team member to try and recap a node and is met with an unkillable tanky defender.

Ucarious

Okay, how about this:

We do 2 team BGs but it's only queueable with a group. And then for normal BGs, make it so groups cannot queue for that and you can only queue normal BGs solo or with at best 2 people groups.

Aside from that maybe throw ranking and rewards (costumes or mounts or titles etc but not gear) into the 2 team BG option since it requires a group to make it more enticing to those who queue as groups.

Urvoth

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

If it were deathmatch, yeah, but a 2 team system would be way better off being objective based.

Putinof

CriticalToli wrote: »

First of all, 0 cares if such topic has been already created, since what I (not only I) ask for, is still not in the game, here is another one:
- I am sure a lot of players, especially those coming from other mmos are missing team vs team battlegrounds and / or arenas.
- Personally for me this is literally the only thing, that really pisses me (not only me tho) off in this otherwise really great game (actually being unable to watch what other people wear too, but thats another story).
- WHy can't Zenimax and Bethesda just give us an option where we can select to queue for 4v4 (6v6, 8v8) or 4v4v4 / 3v3v3?
- maybe even add a free for all deathmatch or arenas (smaller battleground hardcore deathmatch) with 2v2 3v3 4v4??
- why does it have to be team vs team vs team all the time - side note it is actually never really like 4v4v4 or 3v3v3 more like 4v8 or 3v6 and 3 noobs running around without a clue waht to do or even more ridiculous chaotic *** ***, excusemoir my french. also please do not try to explain it by ye well it is this way bcuz of 3 factions, for this there is another place - Cyrodiil.
- people just run around and watch for opportunities to ks, hunt noobs, 2v1 the bad luck team or be a snitch in any other way the 3 teams constellation creates, you know what i mean xD.

Short: devs, pls give 2 teams bgs, thank you.

im only ever coming back to this game if i see proper XvX pvp. Organised 10v10? Wow had that a decade ago lul

CompM4s

Capture the flag would be fun with 2 teams

Thogard

exeeter702 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

2 team bgs wont work if you simply convert the current instanced pvp bg system eso incorporates into 2 team affairs.

Proper, objective based designed bgs with maps designed for specific game modes absolutely would have worked. Esos combat design is not so unique or foreign that it is incompatible when using other mmos as comparisons for how to do actual good 2 team bg/wz's.

I do agree however that CDs play a big part in balance, but i dont think it is a major outlier, and is more an issue for arena based small scale tdms. For larger objextive based BGs this would not be a major issue unless you sent one team member to try and recap a node and is met with an unkillable tanky defender.

Agreed

russelmmendoza

12 vs 12 ftw.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

Urvoth wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

If it were deathmatch, yeah, but a 2 team system would be way better off being objective based.

I disagree. 2 team deathmatch would lead to higher quality and more enjoyable fights. Both sides could fully commit to an engagement instead of having to pussyfoot around, staying at ranged because the 3rd group are waiting like a bunch of seagulls to swoop in.

3 team objective might not have as much fighting, but what you do get is much more enjoyable, such as 1v1v1 on a capture point where fight to the death, etc. I don’t think a 2 team mode would be an improvement.

exeeter702

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Two team BGs won’t work.

The three team system punishes teams that build to stalemate.

A two team system would reward those teams.

If it were deathmatch, yeah, but a 2 team system would be way better off being objective based.

I disagree. 2 team deathmatch would lead to higher quality and more enjoyable fights. Both sides could fully commit to an engagement instead of having to pussyfoot around, staying at ranged because the 3rd group are waiting like a bunch of seagulls to swoop in.

3 team objective might not have as much fighting, but what you do get is much more enjoyable, such as 1v1v1 on a capture point where fight to the death, etc. I don’t think a 2 team mode would be an improvement.

Unfortunately this has been proven wrong time and time again over the years in other mmos. You cannot have larger team format bgs where it is strictly deathmatch, that creates an awful experience where it mainly becomes a dogpile or timed powerdump.

The the power level of 5 players combined generally leads to problems in design from stalemates and from instant blowouts. It's why wow arena 5s failed miserably. Proper 8v8 or even up to 12v12 NEEDS to be designed where splitting up is incentivised or loss is a swift and expedient certainty.

2 team deathmatch would have to be 4v4 at most and even that would be pushing it with how eso operates, you would see mind numbing stalemates at the higher brackets unless some kind of dampening feature were implemented. But semantics aside, when people are asking for 2 ta bgs they are referring to larger team based bgs, not what is generally considered an arena format, like swtors 4v4 and wows 3v3 & 2v2. Even bioware knew that 4v4 with playable tank specs represented an issue and implemented a gas system that slowly closed in on the arena to curb stalemates.

8v8+ tdm would just be a smorgasbord of timed ult dumping and balling up. 2 team bgs in eso need to be 8v8 objective based maps where premades are limited to 4 man groups queuing up which would limit the stacked influence a premade can have in a game when going up against say a 3 man + 1 solo and 2 duos all on one team where the other team may have 2 4 man groups or 1 4 man group and 4 solos etc etc.