Battle spirit, a potential gateway to balancing PvP?

zDan

The battle spirit buff has gone unchanged for as long as I can remember. I feel as if making tweaks or even adding to the buff would help balance out pvp in the most simple way instead of having to balance out each and every individual skill, this would also not effect pve since its only active in pvp environments.

As it stands it gives 5k health, 50% reduced damage, 50% reduced healing and 50% reduced damage shields. Now I'm no game developer but I would imagine that tweaking these numbers could possibly be simpler than tweaking individual skills?
Damage way too high? Up the percentage to 60%
Shields under-performing? Drop those down to 40%
And so on…. Obviously these are all hypotheticals.

I feel as if this would be the most effective way to help balance pvp and make it a much better place to be in, of-course if I'm missing something or if you feel like this would not work and would be bad for PvP feel free to let me know!

LordLomax

Lots of people have suggested this but Zos ignores it . Why who knows ??

Vapirko

It’s probably not that simple. If you simply make it 60% you still deal with individual skills being unbalanced. Tackling individual skills through battle spirit might just lead to massive host of bugs.

zDan

Vapirko wrote: »

It’s probably not that simple. If you simply make it 60% you still deal with individual skills being unbalanced. Tackling individual skills through battle spirit might just lead to massive host of bugs.

Yeah that's what I thought they'd probably have to rebalance the skills anyway to make them work in tandem with the battle spirit lol

VaranisArano

ZOS totally could. They know that. They aren't so incompetent that they are going to look at the forums and say "Oh, look, our players say we can use Battle Spirit! Why didnt we think of that?!"

So why havent they?

I suspect it serves their purposes to balance both PVP and PVE together.

The main, though not the only reason is that ZOS can't afford to let ESO get stagnant, and "balance" changes are a lot cheaper way of keeping the game fresh than making new content. This reason would be true even if PVE and PVP were separated, but it would be harder to hide that since One Tamriel, our horizontal progression is driven by change for the sake of change. If both game modes were separate, ZOS would continue the cycle of nerfs and changes in both areas. Since they are balanced together, it gives ZOS a rich field of potential changes to make that impact both areas and serve ZOS' overall purposes: keep the game from keeping stale and boring and keep most players grinding away to chase the new meta, as has been the strategy ever since One Tamriel did away with vertical progression.

mague

zDan wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

It’s probably not that simple. If you simply make it 60% you still deal with individual skills being unbalanced. Tackling individual skills through battle spirit might just lead to massive host of bugs.

Yeah that's what I thought they'd probably have to rebalance the skills anyway to make them work in tandem with the battle spirit lol

It is wrong to think that the whole patch notes are about PvP. Some changes are for overland and some for dungeons & trials.

darkblue5

I think it'd end up getting stretched pretty hard by all the work it'd need to do. I think the (semi) OG ground AOE >>> sticky single target DOT dps numbers were correct for PvP. Getting there by scaling with Battlespirit would probably be too wacky.

Real problem we'd see is that the Battleroar scaling people would like to see would differ based on what they'd like PVP to be like. No getting around that.

katorga

Battle spirit is a baseline, not a balance tool. It offsets health and ability tooltip numbers that are scaled for PVE content so that pvp is possible.

kalunte

not that simple i guess. the very big issue is that they dont want to reshape the entire pve content to make it fit with all of the broken tweaks they do. therefor they have to keep some skills on top whatever happens.

i mean, with the state of the game it is impossible to have a balanced game for both PvE and PvP at the same time. there will always be something.

again, they are so lazy that NPCs arent patched. they are still using 1.0 skills...

WeylandLabs

What's up with players wanting ridiculous long fights and wanting to live forever now.

Where did this mindset culture start coming from ?

Didn't actual skilled, fighting games like -

Street Fighter,
Mortal Kombat
Killer Instinct
Super Smash Bro's
Soul Caliber
Tekken
Marvel vs Capcom

- teach players nothing ? 🤔

Stellarvorous

@Shokasegambit1 they all want to be 1vXers and stream videos of smashing potatos …


Personally I like faster fights where either I kill who im going after or I get rolled instantly if I fail and ironically battle spirit caused this id personally love some PvP with CP but without battle spirit everything full power healing damage shields and naturally yes damage full damage.

WeylandLabs

Stellarvorous wrote: »

@Shokasegambit1 they all want to be 1vXers and stream videos of smashing potatos …


Personally I like faster fights where either I kill who im going after or I get rolled instantly if I fail and ironically battle spirit caused this id personally love some PvP with CP but without battle spirit everything full power healing damage shields and naturally yes damage full damage.

But where did this mindset/culture start coming from, to want to never die in PvP game ?

That's how you get better - you die and learn from that.

Aka Growing / Progression

I didn't play games like LOL or WOW, is it in there combat system to want to never die ?

zDan

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stellarvorous wrote: »

@Shokasegambit1 they all want to be 1vXers and stream videos of smashing potatos …


Personally I like faster fights where either I kill who im going after or I get rolled instantly if I fail and ironically battle spirit caused this id personally love some PvP with CP but without battle spirit everything full power healing damage shields and naturally yes damage full damage.

But where did this mindset/culture start coming from, to want to never die in PvP game ?

That's how you get better - you die and learn from that.

Aka Growing / Progression

I didn't play games like LOL or WOW, is it in there combat system to want to never die ?

since when did 1vX'ing correlate with not wanting to die? If anything its the tanky af zerglings that literally build to be res bots that are actually scared to die even when they're near a keep they can just spawn up at

idk

Zos has stated they do not want skills to behave differently in PvE and PvP. Their reasoning is they do not want combat to be different when going from PvE to PvP.

Of course we all know the combat is different between the two and our builds are different between the two by design. Of course, Zos knows what is best and we see shining examples of their immense wisdom and foresight every update.

On the other hand, with the poor state of the game this week, how simple and obvious things such as changing factions at the end of a campaign was not thought out or tested, do you really Zos can make the changes as is suggested above without messing things up even more?

idk about you but my confidence in the management of this game has never been lower since the launch of this game.

Kadoin

The game can never be balanced because there is your balance, and then there is mine.

zDan

idk wrote: »

Zos has stated they do not want skills to behave differently in PvE and PvP. Their reasoning is they do not want combat to be different when going from PvE to PvP.

Of course we all know the combat is different between the two and our builds are different between the two by design. Of course, Zos knows what is best and we see shining examples of their immense wisdom and foresight every update.

On the other hand, with the poor state of the game this week, how simple and obvious things such as changing factions at the end of a campaign was not thought out or tested, do you really Zos can make the changes as is suggested above without messing things up even more?

idk about you but my confidence in the management of this game has never been lower since the launch of this game.

agreed. its not even just balance changes that im not hopeful for its mainly performance. im not hopeful in the slightest when it comes to this new plan they have for next year in fixing performance issues, it just wont happen.

WeylandLabs

zDan wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stellarvorous wrote: »

@Shokasegambit1 they all want to be 1vXers and stream videos of smashing potatos …


Personally I like faster fights where either I kill who im going after or I get rolled instantly if I fail and ironically battle spirit caused this id personally love some PvP with CP but without battle spirit everything full power healing damage shields and naturally yes damage full damage.

But where did this mindset/culture start coming from, to want to never die in PvP game ?

That's how you get better - you die and learn from that.

Aka Growing / Progression

I didn't play games like LOL or WOW, is it in there combat system to want to never die ?

since when did 1vX'ing correlate with not wanting to die? If anything its the tanky af zerglings that literally build to be res bots that are actually scared to die even when they're near a keep they can just spawn up at

I was referring to the battlespirirt adding more to the % to make the TTK rate go higher.

katorga

Kadoin wrote: »

The game can never be balanced because there is your balance, and then there is mine.

PVP actually is balanced. It is balanced for alliance vs. alliance pvp - every class has a role, every build basically works, and the different classes in a group complement each other. It swings out of balance every once and a while when ZOS introduces something ridiculous, but for the most part AvA is balanced. The core game was designed around it.

All other modes of PVP like no-CP or duels or 1vX are like "extreme" sports where things are intentionally made more difficult and esoteric for bragging rights.

Emma_Overload

Battle Spirit is a pox on this game and needs to go away. Because of Battle Spirit, tons of gear sets that could be interesting are crap in PvP. This is especially true of healing sets, which suffer greatly in utility when their proc values are cut in half.

Instead, all gear, skills and mechanics should be balanced for PvP first. Then PvE content should be balanced against the result. Problem solved!

No_Division

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Battle Spirit is a pox on this game and needs to go away. Because of Battle Spirit, tons of gear sets that could be interesting are crap in PvP. This is especially true of healing sets, which suffer greatly in utility when their proc values are cut in half.

Instead, all gear, skills and mechanics should be balanced for PvP first. Then PvE content should be balanced against the result. Problem solved!

BS is fine. What it should do:
- give 10% crit resistance
- drop health to 2000 instead of 5k
- 60% dmg nerf instead of 50%
- no shield reduction but nerf mag shields by adjusting the max health cap.