The Guild Trader Problem

Swordbreaker

I've been playing ESO for nearly 5 years. I've been using the guild system and been part of several trade guilds ever since guild traders were added. But to this day I still don't understand this insistence on keeping guild traders that have their own inventory exclusively for the guild that owns them. Let me explain why:

Usually, to find anything i'm looking for requires hopping from guild trader to guild trader, city to city, province to province, and sometimes i still cant find what i'm looking for. And on top of that, the guild trader interface is EXTREMELY slow, and completely stops working if you visit too many traders too quickly. You also have to hit 'refresh' multiple times, because you'll often put in a search, it pulls up the first 100 - 200 results, and says no items match your filters, but then you refresh a few more times and magically what you're looking for is there. The guild is selling what you're looking for, but it often says they dont have it unless you hit refresh several times. So you not only have to hop between traders, but also spend an unreasonable amount of time at each just so its broken search function will display what you want.

The game's economy is SPECIFICALLY designed for players to shop from trader to trader, but doing so is barely supported by the slow interface and lockout any time you do too many searches too quickly. What's the point of keeping this garbage system? What benefit does it add? Cuz i can name numerous issues that this system causes but cant think of a single up side. And what's the point of not giving players an average price for each item? Players are constantly ripping off and getting ripped off because market values require mods to be seen, and those mods aren't entirely accurate either, because it only has data from players who actually have the mod. So unless every player has TTC or MM, then the values will always be at least a little bit inaccurate. Nobody has any idea what items are worth unless they get one of these mods, and that's absurd that such a basic function requires mods or 3rd party websites.

I've seen this polled before and it always gets shot down, but why would a unified Grand Exchange-style system be a bad thing? It's benefits far outweigh its drawbacks. At the very least, ZoS needs to massively improve the guild trader interface, because it's fundamentally broken and increasingly frustrating.

Taleof2Cities

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

Cously

Normally I'd be ok with simplyfing the guild trader system by removing it and have a global AH. But to be honest trading guilds are super fun with their events, raffles, auctions, etc. It makes for a great community and I'd say more enjoyable than other types of guilds. I believe it's healthy for the game. My beef with the system is the constant travelling. Loading screens are boring. I have money, I need items and I want to go on a shopping spree. Make it easy for me! A location with all guild traders centered would be nice. Or something that makes it easier to purchase. There is a reason why online stores trump retails.

ZonasArch

Swordbreaker wrote: »

I've been playing ESO for nearly 5 years. I've been using the guild system and been part of several trade guilds ever since guild traders were added. But to this day I still don't understand this insistence on keeping guild traders that have their own inventory exclusively for the guild that owns them. Let me explain why:

Usually, to find anything i'm looking for requires hopping from guild trader to guild trader, city to city, province to province, and sometimes i still cant find what i'm looking for. And on top of that, the guild trader interface is EXTREMELY slow, and completely stops working if you visit too many traders too quickly. You also have to hit 'refresh' multiple times, because you'll often put in a search, it pulls up the first 100 - 200 results, and says no items match your filters, but then you refresh a few more times and magically what you're looking for is there. The guild is selling what you're looking for, but it often says they dont have it unless you hit refresh several times. So you not only have to hop between traders, but also spend an unreasonable amount of time at each just so its broken search function will display what you want.

The game's economy is SPECIFICALLY designed for players to shop from trader to trader, but doing so is barely supported by the slow interface and lockout any time you do too many searches too quickly. What's the point of keeping this garbage system? What benefit does it add? Cuz i can name numerous issues that this system causes but cant think of a single up side. And what's the point of not giving players an average price for each item? Players are constantly ripping off and getting ripped off because market values require mods to be seen, and those mods aren't entirely accurate either, because it only has data from players who actually have the mod. So unless every player has TTC or MM, then the values will always be at least a little bit inaccurate. Nobody has any idea what items are worth unless they get one of these mods, and that's absurd that such a basic function requires mods or 3rd party websites.

I've seen this polled before and it always gets shot down, but why would a unified Grand Exchange-style system be a bad thing? It's benefits far outweigh its drawbacks. At the very least, ZoS needs to massively improve the guild trader interface, because it's fundamentally broken and increasingly frustrating.

The only thing I'll say is that MM(or ATT, that works the same) is perfectly accurate, within your guilds. TTC shows list prices, not sales, and that's where MM/ATT Will shine because it'll average the sales prices. Actual products that moved from trader to buyer, not just sitting there. This means that average is on point for your guilds

Now... If your guilds are cheap, expensive, or balanced, that's another question that only you can answer by checking around with other friends MM that also play in different guilds.

As a very experienced trader, I can tell you that having two big guilds in two major spots, maybe three, is enough to get you really good prices. I try to keep rawlkha, vivec and mournhold, but summerset, elden root, wayrest... All these will give you good MMs, specially if it's a good spot in those cities.

As for TTC, ignore it exists, except if you're looking to buy stuff or if you have some rare and low amount drop, like weapons or gear.

Swordbreaker

Cously wrote: »

Normally I'd be ok with simplyfing the guild trader system by removing it and have a global AH. But to be honest trading guilds are super fun with their events, raffles, auctions, etc. It makes for a great community and I'd say more enjoyable than other types of guilds. I believe it's healthy for the game. My beef with the system is the constant travelling. Loading screens are boring. I have money, I need items and I want to go on a shopping spree. Make it easy for me! A location with all guild traders centered would be nice. Or something that makes it easier to purchase. There is a reason why online stores trump retails.

I definitely see the downside of it destroying trade guilds. I dont love that but i think it would be healthier for the playerbase as a whole to have the system looked at. At the very least, just make the interface work well and have items appear when i search for them, rather than requiring me to refresh several times per trader, and then locking me out and preventing me from searching guild traders if i search too quickly. No other MMO with a trader/AH system i have ever seen has had such a broken interface.

Swordbreaker

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

Thank you for offering zero help and ignoring my arguments. Yes, other threads exist. I acknowledged them in my post. Those posts do not include all of my specific arguments and points within a single thread where they can all be talked about at once, so they arent useful...

Vajrak

Swordbreaker wrote: »

I've been playing ESO for nearly 5 years. I've been using the guild system and been part of several trade guilds ever since guild traders were added. But to this day I still don't understand this insistence on keeping guild traders that have their own inventory exclusively for the guild that owns them. Let me explain why:

Usually, to find anything i'm looking for requires hopping from guild trader to guild trader, city to city, province to province, and sometimes i still cant find what i'm looking for. And on top of that, the guild trader interface is EXTREMELY slow, and completely stops working if you visit too many traders too quickly. You also have to hit 'refresh' multiple times, because you'll often put in a search, it pulls up the first 100 - 200 results, and says no items match your filters, but then you refresh a few more times and magically what you're looking for is there. The guild is selling what you're looking for, but it often says they dont have it unless you hit refresh several times. So you not only have to hop between traders, but also spend an unreasonable amount of time at each just so its broken search function will display what you want.

The game's economy is SPECIFICALLY designed for players to shop from trader to trader, but doing so is barely supported by the slow interface and lockout any time you do too many searches too quickly. What's the point of keeping this garbage system? What benefit does it add? Cuz i can name numerous issues that this system causes but cant think of a single up side. And what's the point of not giving players an average price for each item? Players are constantly ripping off and getting ripped off because market values require mods to be seen, and those mods aren't entirely accurate either, because it only has data from players who actually have the mod. So unless every player has TTC or MM, then the values will always be at least a little bit inaccurate. Nobody has any idea what items are worth unless they get one of these mods, and that's absurd that such a basic function requires mods or 3rd party websites.

I've seen this polled before and it always gets shot down, but why would a unified Grand Exchange-style system be a bad thing? It's benefits far outweigh its drawbacks. At the very least, ZoS needs to massively improve the guild trader interface, because it's fundamentally broken and increasingly frustrating.

As has been noted, this has all been covered before.

If you are looking for something, asking people around that area, via guild mates or friend list, can help cut down some of the travel while pushing the social aspect.

I'm not doubting your experience with visiting multiple traders too quickly or having to refresh multiple times to see an item listed, it just isn't one I've personally experienced, so I have nothing to add to that.

What benefits does this system add:
Promoting Social interaction, on a one to one, and one to group, level.
Acting as an active and repeated high-cost gold sink, which still doesn't entirely remove the extreme amounts available in game -- and if you think extreme amounts aren't available: 4k writs, 8k legerdemain, 10k trash drops -- ~2 hours of play. That's 660k/month, not even counting gold drops, utilizing trade guilds, or selling anything else. That's money that is just coming into the system, and only trickles out via repairs and porting.

That means just doing your daily writs and fencing (all whites, not even counting if you get higher drops) -- you are looking at 360k/month base potential from every character, not even account, per character, for a very minimal time investment (under 1 hour to finish all writs and steal anything not nailed down to fence).

Say you have 10 characters (not unheard of) to do so with -- that's 3.6M/month coming into the game....how is it going back out?

The current system allows players to somewhat manage the economy ourselves, instead of taxes and prices having to constantly go up so that you can't just without a care buy everything/anything you want. Some players still can of course -- due to the trade system, but not everyone.

The Trader system as it exists is a game within a game, it isn't actually for mass appeal, nor is it required if you just want to have a big bankroll to work with. It is just what I said above; another game within the game. Some people want to see how far they can push their DPS, Healing, Tanking. Some want to see how many rare things they can gather, or achievements they can complete. Some just want to roleplay. Some want to play with numbers and markets and commodity values.

The trader system appeals to that last group. The challenge, risk, and value of keeping a Trader in a desirable area IS the game for them. A global or condensed auction system removes that game. TTC and MM are tools they utilize, but not ones that are required; CMX, FTC, Duration Reminders, etc. are tools score pushers and dungeon hunters utilize, but not ones that are required.

You may not like the system as it is. It may have some issues. But it is an inherent part of the game, and an overall well performing one for what it does --- create a mini-game for those who like to play the markets.

blnchk

A game with loading screens around every corner has no business making players travel frequently in order to trade.

A game that targets casual players as well as the single-player audience as diligently as ESO does has no business forcing them into guilds just to participate in the economy.

And finally, a trading system that relies on addons to make it bearable is the best proof of its own deficiencies. Those polls might end up looking very different if trading addons were no longer an option.

There will never be a global AH here. I believe that ship has sailed. That said, people would do well to focus on improvements to the current system instead of defending the laughable status quo.

Uryel

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

I've read many of those tposts saying it's a bad idea for ESO, usually they run around the same idea : market manipulation. As if it's not already happening.

Also, the current system requires the use of SEVERAL addons to properly analyze the market or simply find out what trader somewhere in the world might still have what you're looking for at a decent price sinc the last time the lists were updated by the community-driven addon which uses a dedicated, player-funded server. And you know these addons are now being blamed for being THE main cause of the trader fustercluck we had on sunday, right ?

A central auction house would solve the huge load caused by addons, if you believe one word of that, anyway. And makes most commodities much more readily available. And market prices would be manipulated even easier. Big deal. I'd rather pay a bit more for something I can get in 30 seconds rather than hopping everywhere in the world for 45 minutes, thanks to stupidly long loading times, for the same thing with a price marginally shaved.

Ecstatica

I would hate if they added a central auction house, personally. Travelling the world to visit traders and find bargains is a big part of the trading experience for me.

But then they dumbed down the "having to work to build a guild" by adding that awful guild finder so it wouldn't surprise me to see trading go the same way.

woufff

Ecstatica wrote: »

I would hate if they added a central auction house, personally. Travelling the world to visit traders and find bargains is a big part of the trading experience for me.

But then they dumbed down the "having to work to build a guild" by adding that awful guild finder so it wouldn't surprise me to see trading go the same way.

Couldn't agree more !

Rave the Histborn

Why dont we want a Central Auction house?

You'd need to completely rework the guild system which would then devolve into what WoW became. Guilds generally only formed for hardcore endgame PVE or PVP with elitism at the center of it. You wouldn't have trade/social guilds as there would be no need for them.

Next is the player population. It's easier and more beneficial for new players to get into guilds vs the system most MMOs use where you just run around solo. This gets people into ESO more easily and gives them cknpwtwnt backing of the player base it will also be much harder for new players to get into the game. Undercutting will be much easier for established players as will be controlling the mats market.

Rave the Histborn

blnchk wrote: »

A game with loading screens around every corner has no business making players travel frequently in order to trade.

A game that targets casual players as well as the single-player audience as diligently as ESO does has no business forcing them into guilds just to participate in the economy.

And finally, a trading system that relies on addons to make it bearable is the best proof of its own deficiencies. Those polls might end up looking very different if trading addons were no longer an option.

There will never be a global AH here. I believe that ship has sailed. That said, people would do well to focus on improvements to the current system instead of defending the laughable status quo.

Doesn't every game have load screens? I've played single player RPGs that have load screens than this.

You can participate without joining a guild, just sell in zone and make all the profit instead. If you want to contribute please stop lying.

The add ons taken the average price based on sales, it's no difference than any other RPG aside from making it much easier to rely on. The console players dont get access to add ons wither sp it doesn't seem to be game breaking for them either. Maybe go invest your time in WoW instead of asking players to cater the game to something else that you think you'd like more.

What part is laughable? I understand this is your first MMO, but as someone that's played MMOs with central AH the benefits you think are there really arent.

VaranisArano

You complain that the guild search interface is slow and prone to not working properly.

How is a grand unified trading interface supposed to make that better when it's coded by exactly the same people as made the current search interface?

kargen27

This system keep prices for rare items in check so they are affordable for most the population. A single global market would allow price manipulation of rare items.

This system keeps low end items such as materials prices high enough that they are worth farming and selling. A global market would cause prices on common items to be at or near vendor prices.

This system allows for players to play as a trader. I know many players that think the best part of the game is the trading system. They enjoy looking for items and flipping them for a profit.

There could be improvements to make this system more player friendly. I would like to see a central board in each zone that allows you to see what every trader has in that zone. It wouldn't show prices just whether the trader had the item or not. That way players that don't care price and just want the item can go to one trader and get that item. Players who are looking for a bargain are going to need to visit each trader in the zone that has the item allowing for those who flip items to still play their game.

Kagukan

The guild trader problem started with the guild trader system. Its broken and always will be. There is no fix for this type of system.

Thorvik_Tyrson

Ecstatica wrote: »

I would hate if they added a central auction house, personally. Travelling the world to visit traders and find bargains is a big part of the trading experience for me.

But then they dumbed down the "having to work to build a guild" by adding that awful guild finder so it wouldn't surprise me to see trading go the same way.

This traveling part that you like makes me detest the trading system. To each their own.

ZonasArch

VaranisArano wrote: »

You complain that the guild search interface is slow and prone to not working properly.

How is a grand unified trading interface supposed to make that better when it's coded by exactly the same people as made the current search interface?

You, sir, should stop trying to bring logic and reason and good arguments to heated angry pointless debates!

Jokes aside... They may not be the same people, but even then I don't think we would get anything that much better... This one system would get so many concurrent requests on so many objects... I can already see it crashing instantly 24/7.

PizzaCat82

Sounds more like an Elitism problem than a guild trader problem.

1. Global Auction House wouldn't kill social guilds, just trading guilds, like its supposed to.

2. No one wants to use chat channels to get lowballed by a-holes every 5 minutes.

3. I've been playing MMORPGS since before you were born, provided you are younger than 25. Paying for the privilege of selling sucks. Blind bidding on traders sucks. Millions of gold wasted every week so that you can get a spot that's not taken by a mega-corporation of "sister guilds" sucks. Guild traders suck, and will continue to suck with the multi-bidding process

4. A lot of posts in this, and other topics seem to be people who have it good with the current system and think everyone should suck it up and learn2play, even though trading in this game is more about being in the right guild than selling the right stuff.

5. If your argument comes down to "lol nope" I already hate you and wonder why you don't have anything better to do than poop all over an honest complaint.

ZonasArch

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Sounds more like an Elitism problem than a guild trader problem.

1. Global Auction House wouldn't kill social guilds, just trading guilds, like its supposed to.

2. No one wants to use chat channels to get lowballed by a-holes every 5 minutes.

3. I've been playing MMORPGS since before you were born, provided you are younger than 25. Paying for the privilege of selling sucks. Blind bidding on traders sucks. Millions of gold wasted every week so that you can get a spot that's not taken by a mega-corporation of "sister guilds" sucks. Guild traders suck, and will continue to suck with the multi-bidding process

4. A lot of posts in this, and other topics seem to be people who have it good with the current system and think everyone should suck it up and learn2play, even though trading in this game is more about being in the right guild than selling the right stuff.

5. If your argument comes down to "lol nope" I already hate you and wonder why you don't have anything better to do than poop all over an honest complaint.

Gold disappearing is a good thing, btw. The actual best benefit of the whole system. You can see that, right?

Fallen_Ray

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

Grand Exchange?! You must come from Runescape!!! But I disagree. Guild Traders give the benefit of world wide selling to a select few. Which is unfair to the rest of the players. Makes belonging in a Guild a MUST. Most guilds with traders ask a weekly fee (is this a game of real life?)

So the rest who don't want to be in a guild or cant pay the mentally *** weekly fee cant sell their stock. Hell guild traders suck so bad they can be exploited, I mean I play on console so I haven't seen the patch yet but. Hour fellow PC companions have said nasty things about the recent guild trader exploit.

Having said this, why is a universal auction system bad again?

Rave the Histborn

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

Grand Exchange?! You must come from Runescape!!! But I disagree. Guild Traders give the benefit of world wide selling to a select few. Which is unfair to the rest of the players. Makes belonging in a Guild a MUST. Most guilds with traders ask a weekly fee (is this a game of real life?)

So the rest who don't want to be in a guild or cant pay the mentally *** weekly fee cant sell their stock. Hell guild traders suck so bad they can be exploited, I mean I play on console so I haven't seen the patch yet but. Hour fellow PC companions have said nasty things about the recent guild trader exploit.

Having said this, why is a universal auction system bad again?

Maybe *** read the other comments? It's been answered several times in this thread alone. But maybe that's why this dumb topic keeps coming up.

VaranisArano

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

Having said this, why is a universal auction system bad again?

This question keeps coming up on the forums, to the point that I don't blame anyone who doesnt have the patience to reply.

Here's fairly recent thread from June which covers the same ground, and you can get your fill of pro and con arguments there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/479475/poll-would-you-like-a-global-ah-as-in-other-games/

As for me...
My answer behind spoiler for length.

There's lots of reasons why not to go with a global auction house.

For one, ZOS designed ESO for a more decentralized market. One of their concerns at launch was that in an Auction House situation, it becomes very easy to acquire the beat gear very cheaply. They also wanted to encourage the different pricing at different guilds, specifically citing that you could go to different guilds to find cheaper prices.

Second, the spread out nature of ESO's guild traders makes it harder to manipulate prices over the whole market for a long time. Not impossible, but harder. When I see market manipulation happen, and I've got examples of it in mind if I need to explain further, it's typically for a few, rare items and only for a relatively short span of time. That's because most people simply can't put the effort in to stay on top of ESO's spread out market for more than short-term profit. Auction houses and centralized listings make that much easier to find items and control pricing, and that's actually something we see with TTC and even MM with price manipulation and TTC allowing players to quickly buy up bargains for resale.

Third, the current guild centric system benefits the social system of the game, which is primarily focused around Guilds. One of the strongest suggestions in favor of a central auction house is that then players don't have to join guilds or use zone chat to trade. The counter argument is that ZOS desires players to be in guilds for many reasons, and just made it easier for you to find a trading guild that fits your needs with Guild Finder.
A. guilds, even trading guilds, are a place where players can form strong social bonds and do a variety of content together. My first trading guild did PVE and PVP and offered help with crafting, and is a large part of why I PVP for the Pact now. As many group dungeon players can attest, runs done with guildies are usually better than random PUGs. I've never been in a trading guild that didnt have some social interaction, whether dungeon runs, trivia contests, or just an Auction, so I can see where even serious trading guilds help players engage in the social aspects of an MMO RPG.
B. Trading guilds are a huge gold sink for the economy because of the weekly trader bid. Gold sinks are essential if ESO's economy is to avoid extreme inflation, and the individual sale taxes dont account for near as much gold as those weekly trader bids. Players wanting an Auction House need to consider what alternate gold sinks they want to introduce to combat inflation.

So I think there's a strong argument to be made that the status quo serves ZOS' needs and desires for ESO better than an Auction House or centralized listing system.

Now that you've read my answer:
My challenge for anyone arguing in favor of the Auction House or globalized system is to answer these points.
A. How is your desired system better at maintaining ZOS' original desire to prevent powerful items from becoming very cheap and easy to get?

B. How is your desired system better at preventing large scale, long term market manipulation?

C. How is your desired system better at providing the social and economic benefits that guilds bring to ESO?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

One point that hasn't been brought up yet.
Let's use WoW as an example, though this fits many other MMO's with a Auction House.

WoW has it's game split up among many servers, or shards. ESO uses a "Mega-Server" i.e One server.
Imagine if all 200+ kiosks with tens thousands items each plus non guild players, and the guilds without kiosks, all putting things up for sale?
You would have a UI interface loading millions of items. Think lag is bad now?
This is ONE reason why ESO is not WoW and a AH WON"T work in ESO.
So many other reasons why a AH is bad for ESO and/or wont work.
But, here is the obligatory response.... Huzzah!!

Jayman1000

Slow interface, delays and what not has nothing to do with guild traders, it's just ZOS that cant figure out to make a proper interface. You think that problem would magically be fixed with a central trade....?

About the part where you go around to different traders in the world to find what you need: I love that that, it's awesome visiting all the locations to find good deals. There's great variety in prices and so plenty of opportunity to have some fun earning some profit. And you get to see the world! And while your there say your WTB in zone chat. You never know what you're gonna get.. each zone is basically a box of chocolates as far as trading go. (and who does not like chocolate, eh?)

"And what's the point of not giving players an average price for each item?"

I do agree that the lack of vanilla trading tools is mindbogglingly lacking. This is one of the reasons I would never play this game on console (because no amazing addons). But again, that has nothing to do with the guild traders, it's just zos that are slower than the slowest turtle to implement these things.

Urigall

The recent changes were aimed at removing abuse within the previous system.

Zos will have looked at their options for change. One option would have been to scrap the guild system altogether and introduce a global AH. ZoS did not do that. On the contrary, they stated (I'm paraphrasing) "the guild trader system is a cornerstone of the ESO economy" (and then promptly borked the implementation of the new system on PC-EU - that's a separate issue though)

Cornerstones are important bits of masonry in a building. They tie walls together and generally ensure the whole shebang doesn't collapse onto ones head. That's why the term is used to describe something that's a tad important.

ZoS clearly want the guild system to continue, because they regard it as important...or something.

Jayman1000

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you use the forums search feature (instead of starting a new thread), you'll find many links on the topic ... and why Grand Exchange is a bad idea for ESO.

Grand Exchange?! You must come from Runescape!!! But I disagree. Guild Traders give the benefit of world wide selling to a select few. Which is unfair to the rest of the players. Makes belonging in a Guild a MUST.

It's not true. You can find plenty of trade guilds that require no fees and no min sale. You just wont find their traders in central location, but hey, beggars can't be choosers, that's how it is. at least on PC. Dont know about console, that's an entirely different ballgame.

Vajrak

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Sounds more like an Elitism problem than a guild trader problem.

1. Global Auction House wouldn't kill social guilds, just trading guilds, like its supposed to.

2. No one wants to use chat channels to get lowballed by a-holes every 5 minutes.

3. I've been playing MMORPGS since before you were born, provided you are younger than 25. Paying for the privilege of selling sucks. Blind bidding on traders sucks. Millions of gold wasted every week so that you can get a spot that's not taken by a mega-corporation of "sister guilds" sucks. Guild traders suck, and will continue to suck with the multi-bidding process

4. A lot of posts in this, and other topics seem to be people who have it good with the current system and think everyone should suck it up and learn2play, even though trading in this game is more about being in the right guild than selling the right stuff.

5. If your argument comes down to "lol nope" I already hate you and wonder why you don't have anything better to do than poop all over an honest complaint.

1. Agreed

2. If someone is getting lowballed consistently, then they are likely overpricing the item to their personal value instead of the community value.

3. doesn't apply, been on MMORPGs since there were MMORPGs. That million of gold "wasted" serves an important function to the game economy, whether or not we like it. Real balances to economy (rent, food, hygiene) don't really exist in game to a level to work around.

4. Every one SHOULD suck it up and learn to play. I even described above how easy it is to be a multi-millionaire if that is ones goal, and without engaging in the trade system at all, entirely solo/PvE play.

5. Agreed. In the issue of this topic, people are often just tired of repeating themselves to the answers as to why the global AH isn't desired.

Ozby

I can't stand the trade system in this game it's tedious and horrible

kargen27

Ozby wrote: »

I can't stand the trade system in this game it's tedious and horrible

Others find it to be the best part of the game.

StabbityDoom

So tired of people telling other people to just accept it and move on. That's not how things get better.