help me understand highest dps crit builds

Sergykid

i see that crit builds are the top dps builds out there. You can't reach 40k+ dps without having crit build, like the most popular Mother's Sorrow. Now, i don't understand how this works.

i have 22% bonus crit damage from CP, shadow mundus, (didn't transmute weapons to precise, don't have 100 stones just to test this), passive class like templar, minor force up from trap, major savagery up, a set like leviathan equipped, slimecraw for the crit bonus. Now this testing char isn't full powered so i do 22-23k dps. I also tried the complete opposite, full weapon damage build: fighters guild passives, warrior mundus, hundings equipped, etc. I get the same dps. Tried different mundus stones like the Tower or the Thief, still the same dps.

what's the secret or the catch here for these 40k+ dps people do? i am weaving properly, and i check my stuff with combat metrics. People brag everywhere about how easy is to do 30k dps these days, but my best characters reach 30k dps with big effort into the rotation, on the 3m dummy.

Nestor

You said your character is no other fully leveled, what level is it?

Nestor

Also, when you say weaving are you animation Canceling your light attacks with your skills?

Appo

Are you using ele drain for major breach?

Iskiab

Mother’s sorrow is only best with raid buffs. People rotate warhorn for additional crit damage which is what makes it so good.

Solo on a dummy you won’t see much of a difference, maybe even a slight loss.

At 22k work on light attack weaving and gear, that’s likely your issue. For pve you need to get the maelstrom flame staff plus good sets for max dps. Your dps is at the benchmark for maybe 300CPs and middle tier dps sets.

Sergykid

yes light attack animation cancel. I am 810 CP, i debuff target. I have vMA weapons.

if hundings and leviathan are mid tier gear then what's top? Relequen? OP dps reachable with one or two specific sets in the game?

but not this is my problem. As i said i get the same dps with either of those sets without changing anything else.

zvavi

Share a parse. Cant help you blind.

MartiniDaniels

Of course weaving LA is a huge part of dps as well as animation cancelling and keeping up uptimes, but still those 40k+ numbers are heavily dependent on min-maxing and keeping optimal proportions between effective power (maxresource/10+SD-WD*1.05), crit damage, crit chance and CP allocation. Without that optimal min-maxing, dps immediately severely drops.

Sergykid

so it's either mid tier 25-30k or high tier 40k+, no middle ground

Jodynn

The easiest way I can describe crit builds is you have a chance to do roughly double damage, the better the chance, the higher damage

Diminishing returns of course

With all my testing, 66-76% is the sweet spot that gives you maximum rng to resource to damage ( weapon/spell )

Jodynn

Sergykid wrote: »

yes light attack animation cancel. I am 810 CP, i debuff target. I have vMA weapons.

if hundings and leviathan are mid tier gear then what's top? Relequen? OP dps reachable with one or two specific sets in the game?

but not this is my problem. As i said i get the same dps with either of those sets without changing anything else.

Right now best gear for stamina is

Relequen/Lokkistez with vMA dagger and axe
Relequen/Lokkistez front bar dagger and axe with monster helm of choice

You can still use old school Relequen/Advancing Yokeda or Levithan but it won't compare to Lokk.

magictucktuck

You can get 40k dps with more than a few sets. BIS could mean just a couple thousand more, or just 1. but you can get 45k with hundings. if you are getting 22kdps there is something to be improved other than gear. with a good rotation/skills you can get 35-40k with just about any gear combination than makes sense and benefits eachother and your skillset if you have a good rotation. until you have higher dps and you rotation has minimal mistakes the gear might not make a difference, once your dps is 40-50k you will see a difference in gear sets because your rotation is static with minimal mistakes and is not changing every parse.

El_Borracho

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

yes light attack animation cancel. I am 810 CP, i debuff target. I have vMA weapons.

if hundings and leviathan are mid tier gear then what's top? Relequen? OP dps reachable with one or two specific sets in the game?

but not this is my problem. As i said i get the same dps with either of those sets without changing anything else.

Right now best gear for stamina is

Relequen/Lokkistez with vMA dagger and axe
Relequen/Lokkistez front bar dagger and axe with monster helm of choice

You can still use old school Relequen/Advancing Yokeda or Levithan but it won't compare to Lokk.

Yes and no. Lokke only outperforms AY if you get synergies, and I think only Perfected Lokke outperforms AY, but I could be wrong on that.

Turning to the OP, you are also talking about parses. Some people load those up with BS monster helms that you would never wear in a trial, like Kra'gh or Molag Kena. AY would certainly outperform Lokkes in a parse as its all stacks and stacks with a stationary fight. But at the same time, I can hit 40+ on my standard stamblade raid build (the Rele + AY + Veli) without pots.

Its almost all rotation. You might be going too fast or too slow. There are some things that are interesting, such as the Warrior stone. You should be using the Shadow. You also might be running the wrong food and don't have enough resources for your damage to base off of. Finally, Hundlings and Leviathan are okay, as is Slimecraw. But something like Veli, Selene's or Stormfist is going to up your damage more than Slimecraw's 8% bonus, especially if your base damage is low as a result of running the wrong food, wrong skill points, etc.

Sergykid

fine but i am undecided why i see no difference with either hundings or leviathan, or either with mundus warrior or shadow.

OG_Kaveman

Sergykid wrote: »

fine but i am undecided why i see no difference with either hundings or leviathan, or either with mundus warrior or shadow.

You see no difference because you are not good enough at the game. Which is fine, neither am I, I sit at aroundnd 30k in pretty much every combination of sets/mundai that make sense. That is fine for me, I am not a score pusher. I am not in vet trials. I doubt you are either.

Sergykid

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

fine but i am undecided why i see no difference with either hundings or leviathan, or either with mundus warrior or shadow.

You see no difference because you are not good enough at the game. Which is fine, neither am I, I sit at aroundnd 30k in pretty much every combination of sets/mundai that make sense. That is fine for me, I am not a score pusher. I am not in vet trials. I doubt you are either.

you can't call yourself or me "not good enough at the game" since we do 30k dps with ease. I do 30k dps with ease, 33k when i put some effort into it.

but my question "why is mother sorrow so popular" remains. How do these people that pull 40k+ solo with crit builds? what they do? cuz i see no difference with either crit or raw stat build.

Parrot1986

Sergykid wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

fine but i am undecided why i see no difference with either hundings or leviathan, or either with mundus warrior or shadow.

You see no difference because you are not good enough at the game. Which is fine, neither am I, I sit at aroundnd 30k in pretty much every combination of sets/mundai that make sense. That is fine for me, I am not a score pusher. I am not in vet trials. I doubt you are either.

you can't call yourself or me "not good enough at the game" since we do 30k dps with ease. I do 30k dps with ease, 33k when i put some effort into it.

but my question "why is mother sorrow so popular" remains. How do these people that pull 40k+ solo with crit builds? what they do? cuz i see no difference with either crit or raw stat build.

On a dummy I’ll do more with “non crit build” using spell strat and siroria. I’ll have about 54% crit chance an Duse shadow mundus. That set up on magplar will get 45-50k on 6m. I’ll do better and more consistent in trials with sorrow false god though due to the nature of those sets, war horn etc.

In short pure crit isn’t a sure fire way to get high dps and not having high crit doesn’t stop you either. Best way to see why you’re not hitting what you think you can is to share a parse and it gives people who can hit higher a chance to see where you can maybe tweak things.

OG_Kaveman

Sergykid wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

fine but i am undecided why i see no difference with either hundings or leviathan, or either with mundus warrior or shadow.

You see no difference because you are not good enough at the game. Which is fine, neither am I, I sit at aroundnd 30k in pretty much every combination of sets/mundai that make sense. That is fine for me, I am not a score pusher. I am not in vet trials. I doubt you are either.

you can't call yourself or me "not good enough at the game" since we do 30k dps with ease. I do 30k dps with ease, 33k when i put some effort into it.

but my question "why is mother sorrow so popular" remains. How do these people that pull 40k+ solo with crit builds? what they do? cuz i see no difference with either crit or raw stat build.

yeah, i can, because the really good people hit 40-50k+ with the same armor, skills, mundai. that is an almost 30-50%+ more dps. that is a huge difference. the people are you are citing are just better at playing. there is nothing wrong with saying that. some people are just better at things then others.

Sergykid

show me anyone who deals over 40k dps with hundings. I used hundings with vma bow backbar and vdsa dual wield various sets like velidreth selene, can't go over 30k. Weaving is on point, debuffing, buffs up, etc, name all u want.

kylewwefan

Well, this much is figured out and has been for quite some time. For PvE, Crit is King. It has always been, and always will be.

It doesn’t matter how much Spell/Weapon Damage you come up with, it won’t be enough to make the difference that Crit does.

It’s start out at 1.5 times normal damage. We sacrifice everything to ramp it up to 2 times normal damage.

So you want more of it. About %65 more seems to be a sweet spot.

For penetration, We pass off to a healer to keep up infused crusher; let the tank Breach/Fracture/ Alkosh. Because penetration is also something that can’t just be ignored completely.

Care less about how much AOE Damage everyone is doing and focus on single target monster damage.

I was informed there is some magic that happens multiplicatively with percentages and executes. I’ve turned the numbers on for this. When your executes are hitting for over 100k a swing, heck yeah you want more of it.

Just try killing the big raid dummy. It probably turns your 20k DPS into 40k DPS+ with ease. I have a character I can nuke a 3 or 6 mil to the tune of 38k DPS religiously. On the big dummy, that jumps up a little over 50k.

Throw on some BiS type gear and I hit 65k. Witch is still considered low by these forum rambo dudes.

Try and do a dungeon and this setup is total crap. I’ll go back to my 38k setup all day.

Iskiab

Sergykid wrote: »

show me anyone who deals over 40k dps with hundings. I used hundings with vma bow backbar and vdsa dual wield various sets like velidreth selene, can't go over 30k. Weaving is on point, debuffing, buffs up, etc, name all u want.

I can only get above 40k with the best gear and 810CPs. There are people with the same gear who can do 15k higher.

Another thing, being far from the server can make an 8k difference. Some people love the whole light attack & animation cancel thing but it is a dumb idea for an MMO.

I’d post a parse and people will help, but there are player and connection limitations in this game, that’s why PvE isn’t very popular and the general consensus on reddit and so on is the combat system sucks. As others have said it only matters if you push scores.

Sergykid

@kylewwefan crit is king but i saw literally no difference between hundings and warrior mundus, and leviathan and shadow mundus. In both parses buffs/debuffs/weaving/etc is up and done.

Sergykid

isn't there a guide explaining or detailing a high crit build? the kind that pulls the biggest numbers? i dunno how u hit 100k with execute ability, best i can do is 50k which is also a crit. I talk about 3m dummy. Anyone who has such a high dps build can post it for me just to copy/paste it, just to try it? if i don't like it i won't play it, but i just wanna see if i can do it.

Krayl

well for starters you're using the 3M dummy which isn't giving you all the trial buffs you'd have which is going to benefit and reward high crit.

as stated with no video fo your parsing and no full concept of your gear, traits, enchants, cp, its kind of impossible to give worthwhile feedback.

Crit is "king" in this game for one reason - there is no "chance" to hit, but their is a "chance" to crit. In other games where "chance" to hit is a thing, then crit builds become less valuable. Major/minor force become exponentially more valuable the higher your crit is, but there is no equivalent to that for your base non-crit hits (that doesn't ALSO affect crit and crit damage)

kylewwefan

Relequen, Advancing Yokeda, Veledreth is still hot for Stam. You could switch to any number of other monster sets.

Relequen is straight poo if you can’t light attack stuff like no ones business. And many fights, you can’t light attack forever.

3 Bloodthirsty jewelry is ridiculously strong in execute. When ramped up execute abilities Crit, it’s nuts.

msalvia

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

fine but i am undecided why i see no difference with either hundings or leviathan, or either with mundus warrior or shadow.

You see no difference because you are not good enough at the game. Which is fine, neither am I, I sit at aroundnd 30k in pretty much every combination of sets/mundai that make sense. That is fine for me, I am not a score pusher. I am not in vet trials. I doubt you are either.

you can't call yourself or me "not good enough at the game" since we do 30k dps with ease. I do 30k dps with ease, 33k when i put some effort into it.

but my question "why is mother sorrow so popular" remains. How do these people that pull 40k+ solo with crit builds? what they do? cuz i see no difference with either crit or raw stat build.

yeah, i can, because the really good people hit 40-50k+ with the same armor, skills, mundai. that is an almost 30-50%+ more dps. that is a huge difference. the people are you are citing are just better at playing. there is nothing wrong with saying that. some people are just better at things then others.

But here's the thing: you can build unrealistically and hump a dummy for 50k, but that same build is gonna be splattered in a real fight. That's why dummy humps are not all that important (but certainly important to show you can execute a rotation).

For real, slot SS and siroria and see how that dummy hump improves. But bring that to a fight with more than 1 enemy and the need to move around, and your dps suddenly sucks. I don't know that someone who can juice a dummy for 50k is "better at playing" than a 35k who has a realistic build and can ACTUALLY PERFORM.

El_Borracho

Sergykid wrote: »

but my question "why is mother sorrow so popular" remains. How do these people that pull 40k+ solo with crit builds? what they do? cuz i see no difference with either crit or raw stat build.

Mother's Sorrow is popular because it is the best AOE set for magic builds while Spell Strat is (was?) the best single target. False God's is great to pair with it because its the magica version of VO, whereas Necro is equally good to pair with it because you get a massive resource pool for your damage to base off of. So you get crit and resources which equals high DPS. Add in a solid rotation of light attacks and skills, each with a high chance at crit damage, with Zaan and its a massive DPS number.

Like @Krayl said, crit gives you a chance at a double hit, if you will. Its better than upping weapon damage over crit, especially if your base damage is low because you have low resources. So if I have an attack that hits at 10,000 and I have a 80% chance to cause crit damage, there is a high likelihood that I am going to cause a second hit that will hit for around 4-6,000, for a total hit of 14-16,000. Put on something like Relequen + AY, and if you can keep the stacks up, the crit goes through the roof.

Compare that to boost in weapon damage, like Slimecraw's 8%, your attack above will go from 10,000 to 10,800. While that is a guaranteed number, it does not reach the DPS totals to what a high crit build can dish out.

To vastly oversimplify it, with 10 attacks, all hitting at 10,000, a build with a 20% weapon damage buff will have a total of 120,000 damage. A so-so crit build, say 60%, with those crit strikes hitting at 4,000 (conservatively) should have a DPS total of 124,000. And for purposes of this example, those damage numbers are low. I don't want you to get the impression that its a moderate increase in DPS. When wearing the right sets and running the right rotation, those crit damage numbers are significant

That is why crit is better for PVE.

shadowofnarsil

Ever since they made two-hand count as a two piece (and actually before that), I have been (and remain) very interested in Leviathan running as a 5 piece on both bars, and the 100% uptime on the boost. To this day I run a khajit with VO and Leviathan, and Veli, switching at times to Stormfist. This is PvE only, and alas no vMA bow...yet. Hit about 28-30k, lag permitting.

Perhaps too old school.

ATomiX69

If you cant pull more than 30k on a 3 mil then you arent weaving properly and/or keeping up your dots / buffs.
As many said, screenshot a 3 mil parse and upload it then people might be able to help you.

akray21

Just a dps check in here. I have multiples of every vMA weapon but I don't have any daggers or axes. So I'm going more AoE with vMA bow, VO, AY, and Stormfist (for now). I'm pulling 30k self buffed on a dummy. What can I change (other than getting vMA dual wield) to increase dps? I'm getting roughly 80-85% uptime on AY 5 stacks, so weaving is not really the issue.

This has been with a NB, but I use the same setup for sorc.

El_Borracho

akray21 wrote: »

Just a dps check in here. I have multiples of every vMA weapon but I don't have any daggers or axes. So I'm going more AoE with vMA bow, VO, AY, and Stormfist (for now). I'm pulling 30k self buffed on a dummy. What can I change (other than getting vMA dual wield) to increase dps? I'm getting roughly 80-85% uptime on AY 5 stacks, so weaving is not really the issue.

This has been with a NB, but I use the same setup for sorc.

First off, I'm not some DPS genius, I'm just speaking from personal experience. VO is not giving you the same damage as Relequen will with a LA rotation. VO is great for content like VMA and VBRP, but not as effective in trials. Your sustain should not drop off that much if you continue to run Stormfist.

Dual Wield VMA daggers are incorporated on the new meta builds with Scalebreaker that run full 5 piece Lokke + Relequen without monster sets. Supposedly the perfected versions outperform AY + Relequen. I'm on console so I have yet to try it out.