Undaunted Dungeons Randoms - Normal / DLC split list?

Skullderic

When is Zos going to make a split list for queue of Normal & DLC Dungeons?
I Don't have time to sit in a DLC dungeon w/ Noobs most of the time, and saddly I get DLC on my randoms 9 out of 10 times.
Its coo! They added the 300co to do DLC, but It dont take long to get 300cp w/ all the XP boost around.
Back in the day if you had 300cp you knew what you was doing for the most part.
These days i've seen players w/ 500cp+ and not even switching bars & only doing 2 skills. (13k hp w/ food) Yes, 500cp+ Noobs. more & more every day. PffT.

Jeremy

Skullderic wrote: »

When is Zos going to make a split list for queue of Normal & DLC Dungeons?
I Don't have time to sit in a DLC dungeon w/ Noobs most of the time, and saddly I get DLC on my randoms 9 out of 10 times.
Its coo! They added the 300co to do DLC, but It dont take long to get 300cp w/ all the XP boost around.
Back in the day if you had 300cp you knew what you was doing for the most part.
These days i've seen players w/ 500cp+ and not even switching bars & only doing 2 skills. (13k hp w/ food) Yes, 500cp+ Noobs. more & more every day. PffT.

They should have split them years ago. Needs to happen.

They already have a separate NPC for them. Not sure why they don't just give them separate queues as well.

DaveMoeDee

The bottom line is that people queuing for a vet DLC dungeon shouldn't be getting paired with people doing random vet dungeons. The latter are too likely to bail.

VaranisArano

There's already an no-DLC option. Don't select them on the specific dungeons tab.

Unless you want the rewards for "Random" dungeons while opting out of the DLC, which is unlikely, since the random dungeon option is the primary way ZOS fills or backfills groups that are doing that specific dungeon, and there's no incentive for them to lower the effectiveness of groupfinder in that regard. If you queue using groupfinder, it guarantees you "a group" not "an effective group".

Your best option for avoiding the noobs is to queue for your random dungeon with a preselected group that meets your standards.

wishlist14

I agree with you op.
I generally like helping newbies but if you're a noob at cp 500 then there is a problem.

I think the problem is some new players get blind sighted into rushing to level their cp rather than focus on their overall understanding and mastering of their class. Everything is rush, rush, rush , think and react later. That seems to be the new player formula. Like a wild bull at a gate

Raisin

If you want the game to randomly throw you into a dungeon that's part of a selection of dungeons you approve of, you have that option.

The reason random dungeon gives you a reward is because you don't get to pick and choose. You are being given a special bonus for deciding to take that risk and accept not controlling the outcome. That is the point. It is not free daily exp you are entitled to. No one is forcing you to run 100% random dungeons. It is an offer you can take, knowing the drawbacks, to get a special reward. You don't get the reward for not offering yourself up to rng. If you want to use the game's randomizer just for deciding on a dungeon, use the specific search and select all dungeons you are willing to do.

Naftal

Just have a guildie or a friend group with you with their lvl20 char for only a handful of fast dungeon possibilities in random queue.

therift

I am hoping that this feature will be included in Group Finder ver 2.0 in Update 24.

It would require different reward tiers for Random Dungeon, however, if DLC dungeons are excluded.

On the other hand, it would obviate the need to do the 'lowbie' and 'non-DLC owner' tricks.

mairwen85

So you want all the rewards of random, but with less random risk?

kargen27

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

The bottom line is that people queuing for a vet DLC dungeon shouldn't be getting paired with people doing random vet dungeons. The latter are too likely to bail.

The alternative is that you sit there forever hoping a 4th eventually wants to also do that dungeon.

therift

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you want all the rewards of random, but with less random risk?

I would want the smaller pool with a commensurate reduction in reward. I primarily use the Random feature for fun, but I'd prefer to exclude some of the DLCs. The reward to me doesn't matter much beyond a pair of keys for HM.

mairwen85

therift wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you want all the rewards of random, but with less random risk?

I would want the smaller pool with a commensurate reduction in reward. I primarily use the Random feature for fun, but I'd prefer to exclude some of the DLCs. The reward to me doesn't matter much beyond a pair of keys for HM.

Reduced pool == reduced reward.I think that's a fair and adequate trade-off. But... we are talking normals here, right?

Taleof2Cities

mairwen85 wrote: »

therift wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you want all the rewards of random, but with less random risk?

I would want the smaller pool with a commensurate reduction in reward. I primarily use the Random feature for fun, but I'd prefer to exclude some of the DLCs. The reward to me doesn't matter much beyond a pair of keys for HM.

Reduced pool == reduced reward.I think that's a fair and adequate trade-off. But... we are talking normals here, right?

Nope.

Random means random from the full list of choices ... you take what dungeon is given for the random queue.

Splitting the random queue is a bad idea. Since it makes each queue longer due to the diluted player pool in each.

Players who don’t want to learn DLC mechanics should not be given any rewards.

therift

mairwen85 wrote: »

therift wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you want all the rewards of random, but with less random risk?

I would want the smaller pool with a commensurate reduction in reward. I primarily use the Random feature for fun, but I'd prefer to exclude some of the DLCs. The reward to me doesn't matter much beyond a pair of keys for HM.

Reduced pool == reduced reward.I think that's a fair and adequate trade-off. But... we are talking normals here, right?

I have the vet hard modes in mind. I can do the regulars for fun, but I need more practice with the newer DLCs.

I suppose it creates a middle ground: Normal, Vet non-DLC, then Vet-any. If I want to run the vet DLCs, I'd rather do it with a pre-made group than PuG. So I guess controling the challenge when PuGging is a consideration... lutting a limit on my challenge level so I'm not matched with the HM pros.

Tsar_Gekkou

When it comes to random dungeons, people with ESO+ are punished for having it while people without it can enjoy base-game dungeons. It sucks.

Jeremy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

therift wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you want all the rewards of random, but with less random risk?

I would want the smaller pool with a commensurate reduction in reward. I primarily use the Random feature for fun, but I'd prefer to exclude some of the DLCs. The reward to me doesn't matter much beyond a pair of keys for HM.

Reduced pool == reduced reward.I think that's a fair and adequate trade-off. But... we are talking normals here, right?

Nope.

Random means random from the full list of choices ... you take what dungeon is given for the random queue.

Splitting the random queue is a bad idea. Since it makes each queue longer due to the diluted player pool in each.

Players who don’t want to learn DLC mechanics should not be given any rewards.

But it serves no one to have people just drop from DLC dungeons when they show up. Not those who are wanting to complete their random Veteran, nor those who are actually trying to complete a Vet DLC.

I just believe it would be in everyone's interests to separate them. A lot of players who may be capable of completing regular Veteran Dungeons are not prepared for some of the Veteran DLC dungeons. They are on different levels of challenge. So why not put them in different queues?

Just make the random Veteran DLC daily give substantially better rewards. That should help with the diluted player pool.

Though I just realized this thread is talking about normal modes specifically... but in terms of Veteran Modes I do think this should happen.

Jpk0012

The DLC dungeons aren't worth the headache.

karekiz

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

When it comes to random dungeons, people with ESO+ are punished for having it while people without it can enjoy base-game dungeons. It sucks.

Solution:

Remove random dungeon finder bonus

Improve XP for pledge turn in to compensate.

Non DLC = Blue turn in - X1 bonus transmute each for HM
DLC = Purple Turn in worth - X2 Bonus For normal - X5 for HM clear

Taleof2Cities

Jeremy wrote: »

But it serves no one to have people just drop from DLC dungeons when they show up.

Would you rather have players drop from a DLC dungeon ... or would you rather stay in the queue permanently due to no players in the queue itself?

Jeremy wrote: »

A lot of players who may be capable of completing regular Veteran Dungeons are not prepared for some of the Veteran DLC dungeons. They are on different levels of challenge.

The game sets Vet DLC dungeons at a recommended CP300. That’s more than ample time for players to get their build and rotation straight. I had a clear of the Depths of Malatar pledge yesterday with a CP345 DPS who was plenty capable. So, it is possible with low CP.

If players don’t have the initiative to be at the standard the DLC content requires, they shouldn’t queue for random Vet. Pretty simple.

More importantly, if you require a clear on random Vet, don’t use the dungeon finder. Find a pre-made group instead.

Jeremy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

But it serves no one to have people just drop from DLC dungeons when they show up.

Would you rather have players drop from a DLC dungeon ... or would you rather stay in the queue permanently due to no players in the queue itself?

Jeremy wrote: »

A lot of players who may be capable of completing regular Veteran Dungeons are not prepared for some of the Veteran DLC dungeons. They are on different levels of challenge.

The game sets Vet DLC dungeons at a recommended CP300. That’s more than ample time for players to get their build and rotation straight. I had a clear of the Depths of Malatar pledge yesterday with a CP345 DPS who was plenty capable. So, it is possible with low CP.

If players don’t have the initiative to be at the standard the DLC content requires, they shouldn’t queue for random Vet. Pretty simple.

More importantly, if you require a clear on random Vet, don’t use the dungeon finder. Find a pre-made group instead.

Honestly, I'd probably whether be waiting in a queue. At least that way I can be productive while I wait. That's better than joining a Veteran DLC dungeon only to waste hours on a failed run because players either abandon it or aren't prepared for the higher difficulty. Besides, I suggested in my post that the rewards from the proposed random DLC wheel be greatly enhanced so as to attract more players. As things are now - there is no reason what-so-ever to suffer through a DLC pug when the rewards are the same as other Veteran Dungeons (unless you were after the helmet or win). That's another good reason actually as to why they should be separated.

As to your suggestion that players who aren't capable of running DLC content shouldn't queue for a random Vet period - that's not as "simple" as you say. Because there is a vast gulf between say the difficulty of Veteran Fungal Grotto 1 and then Veteran Depths of Malatar to use your example. So it's entirely reasonable to imagine players who thought themselves capable of Veteran Content after completing an easier one like Fungal Grotto would not be prepared for the DLC ones. So the extreme difficulty imbalance does not make that a fair expectation in my mind.

Jayman1000

Definately for vet, pugging vet DLC is not fun, and usually just fails. Normal is fine and can be kept as is though.

Skullderic

As a ESO plus member, I dont have the option I get mixed in DLC w/ the random.
another point is how offen the random gets a DLC, Wife only has IC & again 9-10 times on her account its WgT or IcP~
The rewards don't matter to me for the most part, I just like mixing it up w/ randoms, But to be fair the rewards haven't changes in years, well before the DLC came out.
DLC dungeons are a lot harder even on normal, same rewards.
They need to re-work the rewards & split the DLCs away form the non-DLC dungeons.
DLC are a Nightmare w/ novice player & 90% of the time you dont or can't finish it.
Bottom line; Normal, Vet list & Normal, Vet DLC lists is what needs to be done.
Because lets face the facts, your random normal pug noob can't do the DLC anyway. (Other then being carried through)

Bobby_V_Rockit

I cant even get past the normal DLC dungeons, get one shot all the freakin time by some wierd mechanic and noone ever responds to me saying “hey, whats the mechanic?” if they say anything at all. I just bail as soon as I see its DLC now, not worth the headache

Skullderic

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I cant even get past the normal DLC dungeons, get one shot all the freakin time by some wierd mechanic and noone ever responds to me saying “hey, whats the mechanic?” if they say anything at all. I just bail as soon as I see its DLC now, not worth the headache

Rite? That goes both ways to, players can't do it & the player that can both bail a LOT!
DLC dungeon are hard, for the most part the group needs to be in a Voice group to talk it out & work as a group.
Thats why there needs to be a split list for the normal & DLC dungeons.

DaveMoeDee

kargen27 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

The bottom line is that people queuing for a vet DLC dungeon shouldn't be getting paired with people doing random vet dungeons. The latter are too likely to bail.

The alternative is that you sit there forever hoping a 4th eventually wants to also do that dungeon.

I'm fine with that. That is far better than having people just say 'bye' before we even start.

And why should my queuing for a DLC dungeon increase the changes that everyone doing a random ends up in that dungeon?

This is particularly relevant when doing the DLC pledge. There will be no shortage of people who want to queue for it, but we end up with people who will either drop or ask to do Fungal Grotto instead.

DaveMoeDee

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I cant even get past the normal DLC dungeons, get one shot all the freakin time by some wierd mechanic and noone ever responds to me saying “hey, whats the mechanic?” if they say anything at all. I just bail as soon as I see its DLC now, not worth the headache

This right here is the reason to keep it separate. People who queued for the DLC dungeon get punished because people doing randoms get pulled in and leave. Some players posting here like to criticize the people who leave, but what is the value in that? The people suffering are the people queuing for the DLC dungeon that keep getting grouped with people who don't want to be there.

As someone who likes doing vet DLC dungeons, I have also been the clueless person. I queued for a random daily during an even and ended up in a brand new DLC dungeon I knew nothing about. I ended up kicked after messing up the mechanics on the first boss repeatedly (and I still don't know what exactly was going on).

Though I am not familiar with the last two DLC dungeons, I do generally like having the DLC dungeons included when I queue for random vet dungeons. It would be even better if people who are going to bail on the dungeons weren't included. The best would be getting rid of the 100k XP for randoms altogether.

VaranisArano

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I cant even get past the normal DLC dungeons, get one shot all the freakin time by some wierd mechanic and noone ever responds to me saying “hey, whats the mechanic?” if they say anything at all. I just bail as soon as I see its DLC now, not worth the headache

If you are interested in doing the normal DLC dungeons and no one is explaining the mechanics, I'd strongly suggest looking them up on your own rather than just dropping out on groups. Most of them are very doable once you do know the mechanics - certainly the one shots are much easier to avoid.

If you aren't interested, then maybe selecting "Random Normal" and bailing on groups when you get a hard dungeon isn't the best idea. Unless you are fine with eating the 15 minute deserter penalty...

Skullderic

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I cant even get past the normal DLC dungeons, get one shot all the freakin time by some wierd mechanic and noone ever responds to me saying “hey, whats the mechanic?” if they say anything at all. I just bail as soon as I see its DLC now, not worth the headache

If you are interested in doing the normal DLC dungeons and no one is explaining the mechanics, I'd strongly suggest looking them up on your own rather than just dropping out on groups. Most of them are very doable once you do know the mechanics - certainly the one shots are much easier to avoid.

If you aren't interested, then maybe selecting "Random Normal" and bailing on groups when you get a hard dungeon isn't the best idea. Unless you are fine with eating the 15 minute deserter penalty...

To be fair, most players aren't going to take time to look up mechanics.
Best way to figure that out is to set up a 4 player group w/ friends.

Again, Most players will take the 15-20 min Coo!down rather then eat 2hrs & not finishing a Dungeon.
Which I have done a LOT w/ getting DLCs on doing randoms.

That's one reason they need to be split, among others.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Queued for 4 randoms today... moonhunter, moonhunter, frostvault, something peak. Bailed on all of them. Might at well just call it random dlc finder...

Edit: yes I’m happy to eat the 15 minute penalty, less time than a failed run on a dungeon I didn’t buy because I didn’t want.

FrancisCrawford

Random dungeons for max level characters are very poorly conceived. Unless RNG is favorable, you won't have fun. Why? Because there's no such thing as a group that is well-suited for both the easiest and the hardest possible dungeons. If the group is good enough to make it through a tougher DLC dungeon, then an easier base-game dungeon will the trivial and boring.

Canned_Apples

Just queue with a low level.