Do tanks need the mages guild skilline?

Mariusghost84

In your opinion, do tanks need the mage guild skill line?

Browiseth

before entropy was changed i would say yes, since structured entropy was useful for making a hp machine

now though? i can't think of any use for any of the skills for a tank

MartiniDaniels

Yes, for "Balance" skill which is great in majority of situations.

Major_Lag

Spell Symmetry is a nice sustain aid on Sorc tanks.
Between this and Dark Deal, you can have nearly infinite sustain even if permablocking. Not that you need to be permablocking in the majority of content, though.

The damage shield debuff is irrelevant in this case (Sorc tanks don't use damage shields anyway), and the healing done debuff is also mostly a non-issue.

CAB_Life

Post-Entropy era, not really.

Nestor

The only builds that need Mages Guild are Magic DPS builds.

All other builds that use magic can benefit from the flexibility that having Mages Guild skills can offer, but not by any means necessary. It has always been this way. Besides, you just know in the next combat update, some Mage skill will become the BiS again.

ccfeeling

Its a must.

MaxJrFTW

They do. All the best tanks use that one ability that gives magicka.

Heatnix90

You can really tell who the low-tier tanks are by the responses lol. Structured Entropy was always a terrible way to get HP. Balance is by far one of the most useful skills that you can have on a tank. It allows you to run low magicka regen in exchange for a minor heal debuff (which only applies to self heals, outside heals are still full strength)

Tryxus

Balance

MartiniDaniels

CAB_Life wrote: »

Post-Entropy era, not really.

Nestor wrote: »

The only builds that need Mages Guild are Magic DPS builds.

All other builds that use magic can benefit from the flexibility that having Mages Guild skills can offer, but not by any means necessary. It has always been this way. Besides, you just know in the next combat update, some Mage skill will become the BiS again.

Come on guys, I don't know what top-notch guilds run, I heard sometimes they tank on orcs in velidreth with VMA bows, but on our progression levels where 90% of raid population live, Balance is BiS skill in like 90% of encounters and way to support your group much better due to all that ton of magicka as well as "free" major ward/resolve. Basically if healer is alive and you know that you won't need to fiercely self-heal in nearest 4 seconds Balance + Fragmented Shield is ideal combo. Shielded group, stamina return, ultimate generation, major mending which will persist after balance debuff will vanish...

On the other side slotting entropy for extra health... no comments, we usually struggle to have all the tools and often even absorb magicka is not slotted despite how useful it is.. and to sacrifice one or even two slots for entropy... ugh. Yes, there are encounters where off-tank is somewhat isolated from group and doesn't need to use engulfing/blockade/chains and so why not, extra health never hurts, but this was times more situational then Balance.

Heatnix90

On the other side slotting entropy for extra health... no comments, we usually struggle to have all the tools and often even absorb magicka is not slotted despite how useful it is.. and to sacrifice one or even two slots for entropy... ugh. Yes, there are encounters where off-tank is somewhat isolated from group and doesn't need to use engulfing/blockade/chains and so why not, extra health never hurts, but this was times more situational then Balance.

Spiders, Bone Shield, Meditate, even Orb. All are better choices than old Structured Entropy lol.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

In your opinion, do tanks need the mage guild skill line?

Depends the tank.
Templar, Sorc, Warden, NB no. For DK the Balance skill was always a must, because the inherited issues of this class in heavy armour and resource management.

That is why over the last 5 years preferred my Khajiit Templar for tanking vet trials & DLC dungeons, as he is never going to run out of resources (either stamina, or magicka) and not having to worry about not been able to cast anything when I need. Either that be ritual, BoL, rune etc. On DK Tank more often than not running out of Magicka constantly, resulting to using Balance like I am doing a DD rotation.

Nestor

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

CAB_Life wrote: »

Post-Entropy era, not really.

Nestor wrote: »

The only builds that need Mages Guild are Magic DPS builds.

All other builds that use magic can benefit from the flexibility that having Mages Guild skills can offer, but not by any means necessary. It has always been this way. Besides, you just know in the next combat update, some Mage skill will become the BiS again.

Come on guys, I don't know what top-notch guilds run, I heard sometimes they tank on orcs in velidreth with VMA bows, but on our progression levels where 90% of raid population live, Balance is BiS skill in like 90% of encounters and way to support your group much better due to all that ton of magicka as well as "free" major ward/resolve. Basically if healer is alive and you know that you won't need to fiercely self-heal in nearest 4 seconds Balance + Fragmented Shield is ideal combo. Shielded group, stamina return, ultimate generation, major mending which will persist after balance debuff will vanish...

On the other side slotting entropy for extra health... no comments, we usually struggle to have all the tools and often even absorb magicka is not slotted despite how useful it is.. and to sacrifice one or even two slots for entropy... ugh. Yes, there are encounters where off-tank is somewhat isolated from group and doesn't need to use engulfing/blockade/chains and so why not, extra health never hurts, but this was times more situational then Balance.

Every build is different, my Tank does not use any Mages skills. I have 45K Health, 20K Magic and Stamina and do just fine.

Mariusghost84

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

In your opinion, do tanks need the mage guild skill line?

Depends the tank.
Templar, Sorc, Warden, NB no. For DK the Balance skill was always a must, because the inherited issues of this class in heavy armour and resource management.

That is why over the last 5 years preferred my Khajiit Templar for tanking vet trials & DLC dungeons, as he is never going to run out of resources (either stamina, or magicka) and not having to worry about not been able to cast anything when I need. Either that be ritual, BoL, rune etc. On DK Tank more often than not running out of Magicka constantly, resulting to using Balance like I am doing a DD rotation.

What exactly causes your templar to never run out of resources?

Starlock

Need? Obviously not, as it is easy to find plenty who tank various content without it. An option? Sure.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

In your opinion, do tanks need the mage guild skill line?

Depends the tank.
Templar, Sorc, Warden, NB no. For DK the Balance skill was always a must, because the inherited issues of this class in heavy armour and resource management.

That is why over the last 5 years preferred my Khajiit Templar for tanking vet trials & DLC dungeons, as he is never going to run out of resources (either stamina, or magicka) and not having to worry about not been able to cast anything when I need. Either that be ritual, BoL, rune etc. On DK Tank more often than not running out of Magicka constantly, resulting to using Balance like I am doing a DD rotation.

What exactly causes your templar to never run out of resources?

Rune Focus and Repentance. HoD is for emergencies if Extended Ritual doesn't do the job, and the healers are asleep.

Cavedog

Yes, trial tanks need balance (morph of equilibrium, last skill in mages skill line)

MattT1988

Yep, for Balance.

Narvuntien

My Templar tank was using volcanic rune for CC although I have time stop from Psijic skills now.

idk

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Yes, for "Balance" skill which is great in majority of situations.

Pretty much this.

The skill provides both major resistance buffs but also provides some magicka which many tank builds use a lot of magicka. I am speaking of stam tanks in vet trials.

What_In_Tarnation

I saw magicka tanks using entropy, scalding rune and have inner light on their bar in dungeons sometimes this patch. Most of the time their HP are lower than 19k and without any taunt involved at all though.

Hmm, wait a minute...

Aznarb

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Yes, for "Balance" skill which is great in majority of situations.

This ^
This skill is amazing for tank.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

it was great for pvp, but nb's can Re-cloak before the 3 secs are up so no on a tank its very little use, unless u go for a battle tank

Itzmichi

Never used any skill and probably never will either.

vesselwiththepestle

Balance is a great skill.

essi2

Need? No.


But depending on your build, class and playstyle. It could be useful.
Less so after the change to Entropy.

bmnoble

The Balance skill comes to mind but that relies on having a good healer supporting you for it to be effective.

Unless you got a pre-made group for some Vet dungeons and trials in general, its almost never worth using in PUG groups in most normal and vet dungeons.

I sometimes use a morph of inner light for the Major Prophecy on my healing bar.

Other than that really depends on your class, if your not using a DK or Warden you have to look at skills from the various guilds to make up for gaps in your tanking tool belt that certain classes have.

Nifty2g

Yes,
Balance (Equilibrium morph) quite useful when you need to chain a lot of mobs or cc or just in high magic situations

heaven13

It really depends on the class. My sorc tank makes almost no use of magicka skills, therefore balance wouldn't really assist her much. On dk tanks, where a large portion of their tanking toolkit costs magicka, it would be much more beneficial. Know your class and your limitations.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

heaven13 wrote: »

It really depends on the class. My sorc tank makes almost no use of magicka skills, therefore balance wouldn't really assist her much. On dk tanks, where a large portion of their tanking toolkit costs magicka, it would be much more beneficial. Know your class and your limitations.

Yep. Similarly Templar tank barely uses Magicka. Only couple of things need it, like ritual, focus.

DK needs a hell a lot of Magicka for Igneous Shield, Talons, to the point I have switched the chain with Silver Leash.
Cannot generate enough Magicka to chain pull with the class ability.