The Massive backlash against Damage Over Time abilities

TheRealSniker

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

VaranisArano

"ZOS is closing all threads spamming the forums about DOTs and directing them to the megathread."

"Clearly, I should start another thread about DOTs! What could go wrong?"

Kadoin

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

master_vanargand

Sweep trouble under the rug.

TheRealSniker

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

Darkenarlol

pvp whyne again...

inb4 lock and delete

nothing to see here

IAVITNI

^ please this

I primarily solo PvP when I do play (not much since the whole audit fiasco, tho I am optimistic that once a baseline is established, the game built upon that will be better).

Which means I "1vx". This actually means that I spend a good chunk of my time dead or playing horse simulator. I've died to just about everything on every class using every spec. Yes, it can get frustrating to lose but of all those instances there is an underlying theme for those instances that make me want to stop playing the game: losing due to a lack of counter-play or to over-performing mechanics

Scalebreaker DoTs fall into both of the above categories.

Lack of Counter-play
I cannot simply "slot purge" on my stam sorc. I have actually ran wyrd tree on stam sorc at one point. And while it was effective in regards to removing DoTs etc, it was subpar and not how I wanted to play a game that is advertised as "play your way". Outside of playing magplar, being pigeon holed into 1/2 sets or building around a 7k cost magicka ability even on stam, there are no counters. And quite frankly there shouldn't be in regards to DoTs, but this also means that DoTs have a performance cap that they cannot exceed without harming balance.

Over-performs
So what defines over performing mechanics? A mechanic that does too much numerically (cost:benefit ratio is skewed relative to meta) or has an effort:reward ratio that promotes poor gameplay that does not incite growth of player knowledge of mechanics. Corrosive armor was changed in order to deter the "fire and forget" play style. And yet these over performing DoTs promote precisely that. Players should defeat other players, meaning setting up a combo that can be countered at any junction should be the best way to kill a player. Not a playstyle where you fire off +3 dots within a 10 second time frame and hit them with an ultimate that only a magplar can consistently counter. This playstyle is far too forgiving. This is a video game, not a day care, stop catering to entitled "players" that would rather watch the game play itself than, oh idk, actually play it.

ZoS,

Please Audit your balance decisions and standardize DoTs with the precedent that you yourself defined.

Lisutaris

I don't do much of pvp. I guess you are more a pvp'er? For PvE the changes do single and area dots make sense and are not bad at all.

Well, if you stop playing, and deconstruct everything.... don't forget:




..... inb4lock

SenpaiNFT

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings! Today the combat team would like to update you on some of our plans in regards to the popular topic and debates; enchantments and poisons! Recently we introduced a new system that allowed enchants and poisons to follow a better line of logic for triggering, which in turn has given us much more direct control on when and where they can fire off. In that process we originally allowed any Weapon Attack (any weapon skill line ability, Light Attack, or Heavy Attack) to trigger an enchant or a poison, and we've been closely monitoring feedback on how it has affected the game in many different avenues. Even after the recent fix to prevent multiple enchants from firing simultaneously, we're still not completely happy with how much damage enchants are granting with low effort input.

In a future incremental we'll be updating which abilities cannot fire enchantments or poisons. The changes will only affect single target Damage over Time abilities, or abilities that apply a single target DoT (such as Carve or Rend). The reasoning behind this is based on the usage and effort required for these abilities. Single target DoTs generally offer very steady damage that's more guaranteed compared to Direct Damage or ground targeted effects that require your opponent to stand inside them, and allowing powerful enchants to apply multiple times over their duration was enabling too much damage for too little effort.

It's worth mentioning that a few of these issues were already highlighted during the PTS, and you may be upset that they went to Live without adjustments. We admit that we could have done a better job at taking in feedback and reacting accordingly to it. Amidst the large number of changes we made, we did not give enough time to this specific issue itself, as our attention was focused on other areas of feedback. Moving forward with our Class Rep Program and the new NDA in line, we have high hopes that the class representatives themselves will feel more empowered to continue pointing out larger topics that you, the community, are passionate about; so we can better adjust ourselves to tackling the issues that are most important.

Should have learned from past mistakes ZOS. We told you DoTs were overperforming. You did not listen. Now we all await this exact same response we got back in Murkmire saying you could’ve done a better job listening, and then proceed to nerf the overperforming DoTs back to a balanced state. Go ahead and get it over with.

Kadoin

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

MartiniDaniels

I don't think that general nerf of dot damage is good idea or will fix anything without nerfing soul trap and entropy back to utility abilities.
Why not just prevent stacking of dots against players? This won't change anything for ball groups but it will prevent melting of solo players. Just make that each new cast of same ability by any player refreshes dot duration on other player, this will immediately make this dots unappealing for zerg.

TheRealSniker

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

So since when can you roll and block damage over time effects? You cant even dodge roll the initial application
Shows how much u know about the game.

These standardized dots tick for 700-1000 non crit damage and way more crit damage, they negate most healing with just 2 or 3 applications and with no passive healing from Momentum and shorter duration of vigor they cause huge sustain issues, especially in noCP combat.
On top of that they can all stack and promote AFK gameplay.

Before you tell me to "slot" purge like every Forum Bot that costs 5,4k mag. The skill is not sustainable in any way or form for a stamina character and doesnt even guarantee you to purge the effects you want to.

Kadoin

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

So since when can you roll and block damage over time effects? You cant even dodge roll the initial application
Shows how much u know about the game.

These standardized dots tick for 700-1000 non crit damage and way more crit damage, they negate most healing with just 2 or 3 applications and no passive healing from Momentum and shorter duration of vigor they cause huge sustain issues, especially in noCP combat.
On top of that they can all stack and promote AFK gameplay.

Before you tell me to "slot" purge like every Forum Bot that costs 5,4k mag. The skill is not sustainable in any way or form for a stamina character and doesnt even guarantee you to purge the effects you want to.

You playing the same game or only selectively looking at DoTs?

Lisutaris

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

So since when can you roll and block damage over time effects? You cant even dodge roll the initial application
Shows how much u know about the game.

These standardized dots tick for 700-1000 non crit damage and way more crit damage, they negate most healing with just 2 or 3 applications and with no passive healing from Momentum and shorter duration of vigor they cause huge sustain issues, especially in noCP combat.
On top of that they can all stack and promote AFK gameplay.

Before you tell me to "slot" purge like every Forum Bot that costs 5,4k mag. The skill is not sustainable in any way or form for a stamina character and doesnt even guarantee you to purge the effects you want to.

Before called being a "brick"... maybe
Thick Skinned

Reduces the damage you take from damage over time effects by [0-25]%.
can help? just wanting to be a lil bit constructive and not only making fun of these things Should also count as direct dmg if i am not wrong, if it is a single target dot?

nosecookie

He took his time and wrote down a lot of good points and you give him the oneliner? Read again what he wrote and then consider your response, Kadoin.

TheRealSniker

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

So since when can you roll and block damage over time effects? You cant even dodge roll the initial application
Shows how much u know about the game.

These standardized dots tick for 700-1000 non crit damage and way more crit damage, they negate most healing with just 2 or 3 applications and no passive healing from Momentum and shorter duration of vigor they cause huge sustain issues, especially in noCP combat.
On top of that they can all stack and promote AFK gameplay.

Before you tell me to "slot" purge like every Forum Bot that costs 5,4k mag. The skill is not sustainable in any way or form for a stamina character and doesnt even guarantee you to purge the effects you want to.

You playing the same game or only selectively looking at DoTs?

Is that your followup argument cause you know im right? Id take that as a win

As the answer to your question I would love to enjoy the great fast paced combat this patch but I simply cant when everybody i encounter attempts to dot me down.

MartiniDaniels

Lisutaris wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

So since when can you roll and block damage over time effects? You cant even dodge roll the initial application
Shows how much u know about the game.

These standardized dots tick for 700-1000 non crit damage and way more crit damage, they negate most healing with just 2 or 3 applications and with no passive healing from Momentum and shorter duration of vigor they cause huge sustain issues, especially in noCP combat.
On top of that they can all stack and promote AFK gameplay.

Before you tell me to "slot" purge like every Forum Bot that costs 5,4k mag. The skill is not sustainable in any way or form for a stamina character and doesnt even guarantee you to purge the effects you want to.

Before called being a "brick"... maybe
Thick Skinned

Reduces the damage you take from damage over time effects by [0-25]%.
can help? just wanting to be a lil bit constructive and not only making fun of these things Should also count as direct dmg if i am not wrong, if it is a single target dot?

Are you trolling? CP are put into this by default and this perk just offsets traumaturge CP nothing more.

SenpaiNFT

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

You cannot dodge soul trap or block it. Every single class and spec can run the ability. The tooltip can reach upwards of 30k over 10 seconds. Vigor on average gets a TT of upwards of 20k over 4 seconds, rapid regen 20k over 5 seconds. Thus roughly 2-3 players using soul trap on you will completely negate most classes strongest HoT. Multiple zerglings can use this one ability on a single, solo player, and watch them melt with AFK damage. This isn’t even including all the other DoTs, literally just one.

If you cannot see how wrong and unbalanced that is, then the only logical explanation is that you run around Cyrodiil in a 24-man group, or traversely by yourself/in a small group but in the immediate vicinity of a 24-man, and thus never truly have to experience multiple DoTs because of your countless meat shields and heals/purges from other people.

Kadoin

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

You cannot dodge soul trap or block it. Every single class and spec can run the ability. The tooltip can reach upwards of 30k over 10 seconds. Vigor on average gets a TT of upwards of 20k over 4 seconds, rapid regen 20k over 5 seconds. Thus roughly 2-3 players using soul trap on you will completely negate most classes strongest HoT. Multiple zerglings can use this one ability on a single, solo player, and watch them melt with AFK damage. This isn’t even including all the other DoTs, literally just one.

If you cannot see how wrong and unbalanced that is, then the only logical explanation is that you run around Cyrodiil in a 24-man group, or traversely by yourself/in a small group but in the immediate vicinity of a 24-man, and thus never truly have to experience multiple DoTs because of your countless meat shields and heals/purges from other people.

That's only ONE DoT. Come list all the undodgeable ones...

Lisutaris

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Instead of closing all threads and deleting everything related to dots on Forums the players should receive an official announcement from the combat dev team related to the future of the Dots.
We should also receive an incremental patch fixing the dot damage before this patch goes down as another disaster sponsored by Zenimax.

Yeah, because your opinion weighs heavier than others. Get off your high horse.

The screenshots you just quoted show that my opinion is the majority of the pvp community, get off your high horse yourself.

How do you know if the majority of the pvp is represented by the forums? Strange, I've always seen the forums at odds over mag v. stam balance, so tell me, exactly what makes you think that it is suddenly in unison? Because you said so? Because a bunch of players jump on a bandwagon and spam the forums with useless drivel?

No one can even prove who is who on the forums, and some people have more than one account, so exactly how can anyone find something said on it credible if its not verifiable? Exactly how can "the majority of the pvp community" be even represented when you can't even prove most come here?

I for one, don't think DoTs are as big a problem as anyone on the forums are claiming. Guess I must be in the minority. What are you going to do next, claim anyone skilled would be on your side? If they were skilled they would know how and when to roll, block, and heal IMO. But again, guess its just me and minority opinion.

So since when can you roll and block damage over time effects? You cant even dodge roll the initial application
Shows how much u know about the game.

These standardized dots tick for 700-1000 non crit damage and way more crit damage, they negate most healing with just 2 or 3 applications and with no passive healing from Momentum and shorter duration of vigor they cause huge sustain issues, especially in noCP combat.
On top of that they can all stack and promote AFK gameplay.

Before you tell me to "slot" purge like every Forum Bot that costs 5,4k mag. The skill is not sustainable in any way or form for a stamina character and doesnt even guarantee you to purge the effects you want to.

Before called being a "brick"... maybe
Thick Skinned

Reduces the damage you take from damage over time effects by [0-25]%.
can help? just wanting to be a lil bit constructive and not only making fun of these things Should also count as direct dmg if i am not wrong, if it is a single target dot?

Are you trolling? CP are put into this by default and this perk just offsets traumaturge CP nothing more.

nosecookie

The entire post went over your head again, Kadoin. Stop cherrypicking and read more than the first sentence.

TheRealSniker

Not only did they lock our threads, they also locked our characters:

ZOS_AntonioP

Hello everyone,

With the mass of dots showing up on the forum recap, we're going to start closing down a mass of these threads. We'll leave this current discussion open on the topic so feel free to discuss the topic there.

Thank you for understanding!