5.1.5 Live Shield Changes

Beardimus

I think you make fair points about multiple DOTs OP. Death by a 1000 cuts, dull as dishwater.

It's an odd direction by the combat team to think this is a fun meta, really is. Underlying a few of your problems is bar space. Sorcs are so limited, and thus patch makes it worse. Where it all meant to fit.

As you say the nice buffs that could help, we hardly have space for just surviving, or its the Chudan,MH lost.

Hey hoe, we'll overcome it and adapt, its just not gunna be fun is all

aLi3nZ

My IC and BG build.
IMO -

13k or less resist = Glass cannon level / Can be fine for some cyrodil ganking/overload and some PVE content.

Around 18k resist - I used to find this was plenty enough for small scale PVP and still had to sacrifice damage to get those numbers. Not with this patch

Around 30k - Resistance set used, a significant amount of damage sacrificed but can perform pretty well in BG and IC
Fortified Brass/Pirate/Bright-Throat.

Shantu

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Agree. Actually, it was much easier to make shields not stack rather than nerf them. It would be much better for PvE sorcs.

Man, does this open old wounds. The strength of shields alone was never the problem. It provided a style of play for Sorcs that was very popular and players enjoyed. NO ONE in PVE was EVER complaining about it. It wasn't until PVP'ers started complaining about the STACKING of shields that it became an issue. To not allow stacking was a no-brainer solution, right? Nope. What does ZOS do? They decide to nerf ALL shields to uselessness UNLESS YOU STACK THEM or have such high health that you don't need them. Yeah, I've adapted, but that still remains a sore spot because of its sublime idiocy.

beadabow

I feel your pain, have all but stopped playing my mag builds. When I do, I usually use Rattlecage (heavy armor) with Mighty Chudan's to make up for the lack of resistances light armor builds have. The cost, of course, is losing the light armor passives that make magicka builds worth playing. Considering respecing all to stam builds atm.

GreenSoup2HoT

About time you got on the forums you bum. L2P Sounds like you need my Vigor and Purges.

Galarthor

Shantu wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Agree. Actually, it was much easier to make shields not stack rather than nerf them. It would be much better for PvE sorcs.

Man, does this open old wounds. The strength of shields alone was never the problem. It provided a style of play for Sorcs that was very popular and players enjoyed. NO ONE in PVE was EVER complaining about it. It wasn't until PVP'ers started complaining about the STACKING of shields that it became an issue. To not allow stacking was a no-brainer solution, right? Nope. What does ZOS do? They decide to nerf ALL shields to uselessness UNLESS YOU STACK THEM or have such high health that you don't need them. Yeah, I've adapted, but that still remains a sore spot because of its sublime idiocy.

I fully agree with you.

The problem nowadays is, Shield Stacking has turned into a battle cry above anything else. Most people using it have no idea how shields actually work and what is going on on the other side where the shields are being used. They apparently also don't know what the term actually means.

Originally it referred to sorcs having up multiple shields at the same time. But nowadays it is also used when sorcs just reapply the same shield over and over again as it gets drained by 1 or 2 attacks. This lack of knowledge is really bad. But what is alarming is, that ZOS jumps the band waggon in hopes to sell a few more crown crates. For them it is a simple calculation: Lose Sorc players, but get or retain players from other classes.

Who would have guessed it could still go downhill after Wrobel - seems like it is a bottomless pit.

And don't expect any changes. We (no-cheesy build players) have been waiting for years now for some long overdue balance changes that ZOS keeps promising. But those promises are nothing but stalling tactics.

For years now they have been looking into the overperformance of heavy armor builds in PvP - and nothing has really changed.

For years now they have been looking into the overperformance of stamina builds over magicka builds in PvP - and nothing has really changed.

For years now they have been looking into performance issues (mainly caused by AoEs) - and the lag is still there.

The fact of the matter is, ZOS does not want it to change. If they did, it would have changed years ago. For example, making most AoEs pretty useless in PvP would have improved performance significantly.

olsborg

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Yeah they just want zergs

Yea, they just want to keep empowering zerg gameplay, eradicate the soloers and duoers and cyro is left with 3 big factionzergs and thats about it.

Saril_Durzam

Shantu wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Agree. Actually, it was much easier to make shields not stack rather than nerf them. It would be much better for PvE sorcs.

Man, does this open old wounds. The strength of shields alone was never the problem. It provided a style of play for Sorcs that was very popular and players enjoyed. NO ONE in PVE was EVER complaining about it. It wasn't until PVP'ers started complaining about the STACKING of shields that it became an issue. To not allow stacking was a no-brainer solution, right? Nope. What does ZOS do? They decide to nerf ALL shields to uselessness UNLESS YOU STACK THEM or have such high health that you don't need them. Yeah, I've adapted, but that still remains a sore spot because of its sublime idiocy.

Indeed. Actually, i never thought about shield stacking in PvE. It´s entirely a PvP issue and i think ZoS puts lots of balancing effort with PvP in mind.

Wouldnt be much better if we had class PvP skill lines to use? And forbid PvE skill lines in Pvp?

Shantu

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Agree. Actually, it was much easier to make shields not stack rather than nerf them. It would be much better for PvE sorcs.

Man, does this open old wounds. The strength of shields alone was never the problem. It provided a style of play for Sorcs that was very popular and players enjoyed. NO ONE in PVE was EVER complaining about it. It wasn't until PVP'ers started complaining about the STACKING of shields that it became an issue. To not allow stacking was a no-brainer solution, right? Nope. What does ZOS do? They decide to nerf ALL shields to uselessness UNLESS YOU STACK THEM or have such high health that you don't need them. Yeah, I've adapted, but that still remains a sore spot because of its sublime idiocy.

Indeed. Actually, i never thought about shield stacking in PvE. It´s entirely a PvP issue and i think ZoS puts lots of balancing effort with PvP in mind.

Wouldnt be much better if we had class PvP skill lines to use? And forbid PvE skill lines in Pvp?

This attempt to "balance" the game has caused more ill-will and divisive attitudes toward developers than anything. It's really a shame because we all should be on the same side toward pure enjoyment of the game. Sure, balance makes sense in PVP because you don't want unwarranted advantages in gear and/or skills that transcend actual player skills. But in PVE you have vet bosses that will one-shot you for 250K if you don't do mechanics correctly. How do you balance that? You can't. You have to learn to play. PVE players resent all the time invested in perfecting skills and builds only to have their effects nerfed away for some nebulous, unattainable goal like "balance". This game will NEVER be balanced under it's current construct. But it appears ZOS has too much invested and is committed to forging ahead at all cost, regardless on it's affect on the vast majority of players. On the one hand I can understand it's a noble endeavor. On the other, it seems truly misguided, damaging, and unfortunate.

PVP should have been designed as a separate gear and skills system. But it wasn't. So we're left with the collateral damage to PVE that comes with trying to balance PVP with what we have. Yeah, we deal with it, but at what cost? One of my vet trial progression groups came to a grinding halt after the huge changes in this last patch. I'm sure we're not the only one. How something like this is good for the game is anybody's guess.

Galarthor

mandricus wrote: »

I think that what you are complaining about is exactly what they were trying to address in this patch: make 1 Vs X a lot harder, if not impossible. Not only for Sorcs, but for everyone. And I think they are right. If one player is able to stand the damage of 6+ average players (I'm not talking about noobs, just average players) constantly hitting him, there is something fundamentally wrong in the game mechanics. No one should be allowed to stand that pressure (I'm not talking about kiting, which requires skills, but just standing the damage and healing trough it), and I've seen too much of this *** in the past years, especially in Cp campaigns. Unkillable builds, able to hit like a truck at the same time when going on offensive mode, are intrinsically wrong, and it was too easy to create these builds. A game where, when you are outnumbered, you die is, imho, a healthier game. Just my 2 cents.

Nicely said. And that's the reason why Block and Dodge need to be reworked. They are percentage based and allow to tank large groups of players, unlike Shields and Heals which are based on absolute values and thus have clear upper bounds. In addition, CP makes dodge and block builds so much more powerful by making them cheaper (they don't need to be buffed since they are %-based and CPs makes them overperform even more). In addition there are Armor Traits buffing these builds.

Ozazz

people are bad, they can't compete nor adapt to skill gaps and thus learn they persecute, zos breaks their back to cater to these casual opinions. end of discussion.

Galarthor

Ozazz wrote: »

people are bad, they can't compete nor adapt to skill gaps and thus learn they persecute, zos breaks their back to cater to these casual opinions. end of discussion.

Amen. If the floor continues rising and the ceiling continues falling then the floor will soon be the new ceiling ...

Purpaleslushii

Galarthor wrote: »

Ozazz wrote: »

people are bad, they can't compete nor adapt to skill gaps and thus learn they persecute, zos breaks their back to cater to these casual opinions. end of discussion.

Amen. If the floor continues rising and the ceiling continues falling then the floor will soon be the new ceiling ...

Bruh lmao

Emma_Overload

Galarthor wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

I think that what you are complaining about is exactly what they were trying to address in this patch: make 1 Vs X a lot harder, if not impossible. Not only for Sorcs, but for everyone. And I think they are right. If one player is able to stand the damage of 6+ average players (I'm not talking about noobs, just average players) constantly hitting him, there is something fundamentally wrong in the game mechanics. No one should be allowed to stand that pressure (I'm not talking about kiting, which requires skills, but just standing the damage and healing trough it), and I've seen too much of this *** in the past years, especially in Cp campaigns. Unkillable builds, able to hit like a truck at the same time when going on offensive mode, are intrinsically wrong, and it was too easy to create these builds. A game where, when you are outnumbered, you die is, imho, a healthier game. Just my 2 cents.

Nicely said. And that's the reason why Block and Dodge need to be reworked. They are percentage based and allow to tank large groups of players, unlike Shields and Heals which are based on absolute values and thus have clear upper bounds. In addition, CP makes dodge and block builds so much more powerful by making them cheaper (they don't need to be buffed since they are %-based and CPs makes them overperform even more). In addition there are Armor Traits buffing these builds.

Yep. ZOS took away cost reduction for spells, but left cost reduction for blocking, dodging, etc. Seems a bit unbalanced.