Molten Weapons Is Useless

Plasma_Elf

IMO, molten weapons is completely outclassed by the new entropy.

Anyone else agree? Any ideas on how this ability can be altered to compete with new entropy?

Narthalion

Completely agree. The fact that it buffs allies seems to be counting heavily in the 'power budget' for this skill, when honestly it shouldn't. People slot skills for these buffs already, or they get them from potions. Molten Weapons ends up too expensive for too little realized benefit.

One very simple solution would be to significantly reduce the magicka cost. Possible reason not to do that: it would become the cheapest way of triggering Helping Hands and might encourage spamming it for the stamina.

I've heard that once upon a time it added a fire damage proc to your attacks. Another source of fire damage to proc Burning and trigger Combustion would be a nice addition.

My "well, I can dream..." solution: "Your damage against enemies afflicted with Burning or Poison is increased by up to 10% based on their remaining health." Since we don't have an execute and are focused on DoTs and attrition, it would be nice to have that pressure increase against weakened targets.

Banana

My solo HA build likes it

Sleezly

Please don't touch Molten Armaments. The buff for heavy attacks is an awesome component for this skill. It's perfect as-is.

Narthalion

Banana wrote: »

My solo HA build likes it

Sure, but that's pretty niche and done better (in PvE) by Sorcs anyway (more lightning damage for off balance, bonus to said lightning damage, etc.).

And for only a little more than the cost of one Molten, you could instead cast Degeneration *and* Consuming Trap. Major Sorcery retained, plus magicka back on light/heavies, and a tri-stat replenish when your target dies. And potentially more damage than you'll get from the 50% HA bonus, though ymmv and that should probably be tested. But even without testing it seems immediately evident that two instant casts are going to be a more reliable source of damage than trying to HA while dodging boss mechanics or LOSing in 1vX.

So...yeah, point taken, but I don't think you're getting proper value from your magicka expenditure.

Also, Igneous Weapons...poor, poor Igneous Weapons.

Narthalion

Sleezly wrote: »

Please don't touch Molten Armaments. The buff for heavy attacks is an awesome component for this skill. It's perfect as-is.

Don't think they should take it away. IMHO anyway this is a "they should add this" discussion, not a "they should replace this" discussion.

DUTCH_REAPER

You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.

Narthalion

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.

Not even close -- it's 990.

Compare that to a Warden's Blue Betty. Regen magicka, cleanse a negative effect, heal when you recast it (because of the passive), generate ultimate (passive), increase your magicka and stamina regen while on that bar (passive), increase your damage while on that bar (passive).

And it's free to cast.

So no, I don't think the Helping Hands synergy justifies Molten Weapons doing so little for such a large cost.

DUTCH_REAPER

Oh crud my apologies. Thanks for the correction

Azramel

Have to agree after just looking at the new entropy. The damage alone from entropy outclasses the heavy attack increase, considering its a strong dot that always ticks and heavy attacks with staves take so long and can miss. Add magic recovery and it's nearly half the cost of MA. Sold!

RIP MA

Plasma_Elf

Forgot to mention that I am seeing this from purely a PvP perspective. In PvP both morphs of molten weapons are extremely underwhelming and expensive to use for what they do.

As a pvp magdk, the 50% heavy attack dmg doesn't help me. (although i can see how in pve this could be important)

the other morph is pointless as a magdk.

Taloros

Noticed that today when rebuilding my MagDK, too. The skill has little (if any) use now.

Another class skill eaten up by the generic skill line "meta".

Lokey0024

Gimme my Execute back with it! I want to Lightning staff bbq people.

crazywolfpusher

Entropy is overperforming.

Major Sorc, Very high dot, extra sustain, 2% max magicka+recovery. CHEAP
Is way too good.

I would remove the majorsorc.

TrinityBreaker

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.

Noooooo sir, it is 990 stam.

Narthalion

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

Entropy is overperforming.

Major Sorc, Very high dot, extra sustain, 2% max magicka+recovery. CHEAP
Is way too good.

I would remove the majorsorc.

Whatever balancing might need to occur, removing Major Sorc from it is not the right move. Templar, Necro, and now Sorcs need an option to get the buff (besides potions). And Entropy is, and has been since forever, the only other way to get it (other than Rattlecage I suppose).

Or I suppose those players could keep a pocket DK around to cast Molten for them. lol.

But all of that does really highlight just how much "and your allies" is costing Molten Weapons. All that stuff that Entropy does, weighed against 50% more HA damage. Or worse, all that against Major Brutality.

Molten does fit with the general philosophy of providing ways to buff/support your group, and maybe that was helpful in the early days of the game. But the skill is not in line with the current status of the game. Groups don't need someone to provide those buffs. Time to update this skill.

Xvorg

Banana wrote: »

My solo HA build likes it

Just armaments. Igneous on the other hand seems horrid

Xvorg

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.

3k? hahahahaha

990 stam. That's all.

A passive in the support tree that's even worse than the passive in the dmg tree

Xvorg

Plasma_Elf wrote: »

Forgot to mention that I am seeing this from purely a PvP perspective. In PvP both morphs of molten weapons are extremely underwhelming and expensive to use for what they do.

As a pvp magdk, the 50% heavy attack dmg doesn't help me. (although i can see how in pve this could be important)

the other morph is pointless as a magdk.

TBH, it can be a great option if build correctly (Knight slayer + torugs + skoria), though as someone mentioned above, a pet sorc can do much better

Banana

Alright you've convinced me. Entropy it is.

Abhaya

I actually like the ideas behind skills that buff allies like this and the warden armor buff. That being said it doesn’t apply well when the buffs are already easily available to every other class.

ATreeGnome

Plasma_Elf wrote: »

Forgot to mention that I am seeing this from purely a PvP perspective. In PvP both morphs of molten weapons are extremely underwhelming and expensive to use for what they do.

As a pvp magdk, the 50% heavy attack dmg doesn't help me. (although i can see how in pve this could be important)

the other morph is pointless as a magdk.

It's almost worthless in PvE too.

robpr

Molten Armaments could be worth slotting if it would be either some sort of execute like increasing fire and poison damage over time the less hp target have OR heavy and light attacks your and nearby allies do 30% as extra fire damage.

Igneous Weapons not sure what to do, I sometimes use it as "expensive pot saver" for me and my team. Maybe it could provide some unique synergy, like applying burning or poisoned status allow to use synergy that apply an aoe dot and restore some resources if you damage them during it. Of course group-wide.

ATreeGnome

I like the idea of it giving you and your allies extra fire damage on light/heavy attacks but make the extra damage scale with the casters stats so it would be significantly better for a damage dealer to cast it than a tank, that way stam and mag DKs can be more valuable in PvE.