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Molten Weapons Is Useless

Plasma_Elf
Plasma_Elf
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IMO, molten weapons is completely outclassed by the new entropy.

Anyone else agree? Any ideas on how this ability can be altered to compete with new entropy?
  • Narthalion
    Narthalion
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    Completely agree. The fact that it buffs allies seems to be counting heavily in the 'power budget' for this skill, when honestly it shouldn't. People slot skills for these buffs already, or they get them from potions. Molten Weapons ends up too expensive for too little realized benefit.

    One very simple solution would be to significantly reduce the magicka cost. Possible reason not to do that: it would become the cheapest way of triggering Helping Hands and might encourage spamming it for the stamina.

    I've heard that once upon a time it added a fire damage proc to your attacks. Another source of fire damage to proc Burning and trigger Combustion would be a nice addition.

    My "well, I can dream..." solution: "Your damage against enemies afflicted with Burning or Poison is increased by up to 10% based on their remaining health." Since we don't have an execute and are focused on DoTs and attrition, it would be nice to have that pressure increase against weakened targets.
    Edited by Narthalion on August 12, 2019 4:54PM
  • Banana
    Banana
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    My solo HA build likes it
  • Sleezly
    Sleezly
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    Please don't touch Molten Armaments. The buff for heavy attacks is an awesome component for this skill. It's perfect as-is.
  • Narthalion
    Narthalion
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    Banana wrote: »
    My solo HA build likes it

    Sure, but that's pretty niche and done better (in PvE) by Sorcs anyway (more lightning damage for off balance, bonus to said lightning damage, etc.).

    And for only a little more than the cost of one Molten, you could instead cast Degeneration *and* Consuming Trap. Major Sorcery retained, plus magicka back on light/heavies, and a tri-stat replenish when your target dies. And potentially more damage than you'll get from the 50% HA bonus, though ymmv and that should probably be tested. But even without testing it seems immediately evident that two instant casts are going to be a more reliable source of damage than trying to HA while dodging boss mechanics or LOSing in 1vX.

    So...yeah, point taken, but I don't think you're getting proper value from your magicka expenditure.

    Also, Igneous Weapons...poor, poor Igneous Weapons.
  • Narthalion
    Narthalion
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    Sleezly wrote: »
    Please don't touch Molten Armaments. The buff for heavy attacks is an awesome component for this skill. It's perfect as-is.

    Don't think they should take it away. IMHO anyway this is a "they should add this" discussion, not a "they should replace this" discussion.
  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.




  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    Oh crud my apologies. Thanks for the correction




  • Azramel
    Azramel
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    Have to agree after just looking at the new entropy. The damage alone from entropy outclasses the heavy attack increase, considering its a strong dot that always ticks and heavy attacks with staves take so long and can miss. Add magic recovery and it's nearly half the cost of MA. Sold!

    RIP MA
  • Plasma_Elf
    Plasma_Elf
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    Forgot to mention that I am seeing this from purely a PvP perspective. In PvP both morphs of molten weapons are extremely underwhelming and expensive to use for what they do.

    As a pvp magdk, the 50% heavy attack dmg doesn't help me. (although i can see how in pve this could be important)

    the other morph is pointless as a magdk.
  • Taloros
    Taloros
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    Noticed that today when rebuilding my MagDK, too. The skill has little (if any) use now.

    Another class skill eaten up by the generic skill line "meta".
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    Gimme my Execute back with it! I want to Lightning staff bbq people.
  • crazywolfpusher
    crazywolfpusher
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    Entropy is overperforming.

    Major Sorc, Very high dot, extra sustain, 2% max magicka+recovery. CHEAP
    Is way too good.

    I would remove the majorsorc.
  • TrinityBreaker
    TrinityBreaker
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    You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.

    Noooooo sir, it is 990 stam.
    Edited by TrinityBreaker on August 13, 2019 6:06AM
    Ebonheart for life.
    Xbox NA
    I am Dog Star.

    Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
    Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
    Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
    Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
    Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
    Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
    Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
    Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
    Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
    Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
    Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
    Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem


  • Narthalion
    Narthalion
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    Entropy is overperforming.

    Major Sorc, Very high dot, extra sustain, 2% max magicka+recovery. CHEAP
    Is way too good.

    I would remove the majorsorc.

    Whatever balancing might need to occur, removing Major Sorc from it is not the right move. Templar, Necro, and now Sorcs need an option to get the buff (besides potions). And Entropy is, and has been since forever, the only other way to get it (other than Rattlecage I suppose).

    Or I suppose those players could keep a pocket DK around to cast Molten for them. lol. :p

    But all of that does really highlight just how much "and your allies" is costing Molten Weapons. All that stuff that Entropy does, weighed against 50% more HA damage. Or worse, all that against Major Brutality.

    Molten does fit with the general philosophy of providing ways to buff/support your group, and maybe that was helpful in the early days of the game. But the skill is not in line with the current status of the game. Groups don't need someone to provide those buffs. Time to update this skill.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Banana wrote: »
    My solo HA build likes it

    Just armaments. Igneous on the other hand seems horrid
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    You are forgetting that just by using this skill your DK gets stam back from the passive. 3k stam I believe? Pretty significant.

    3k? hahahahaha

    990 stam. That's all.

    A passive in the support tree that's even worse than the passive in the dmg tree
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Plasma_Elf wrote: »
    Forgot to mention that I am seeing this from purely a PvP perspective. In PvP both morphs of molten weapons are extremely underwhelming and expensive to use for what they do.

    As a pvp magdk, the 50% heavy attack dmg doesn't help me. (although i can see how in pve this could be important)

    the other morph is pointless as a magdk.

    TBH, it can be a great option if build correctly (Knight slayer + torugs + skoria), though as someone mentioned above, a pet sorc can do much better
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • Banana
    Banana
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    Alright you've convinced me. Entropy it is.
  • Abhaya
    Abhaya
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    I actually like the ideas behind skills that buff allies like this and the warden armor buff. That being said it doesn’t apply well when the buffs are already easily available to every other class.
    Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
    Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169103
  • ATreeGnome
    ATreeGnome
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    Plasma_Elf wrote: »
    Forgot to mention that I am seeing this from purely a PvP perspective. In PvP both morphs of molten weapons are extremely underwhelming and expensive to use for what they do.

    As a pvp magdk, the 50% heavy attack dmg doesn't help me. (although i can see how in pve this could be important)

    the other morph is pointless as a magdk.

    It's almost worthless in PvE too.
  • robpr
    robpr
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    Molten Armaments could be worth slotting if it would be either some sort of execute like increasing fire and poison damage over time the less hp target have OR heavy and light attacks your and nearby allies do 30% as extra fire damage.

    Igneous Weapons not sure what to do, I sometimes use it as "expensive pot saver" for me and my team. Maybe it could provide some unique synergy, like applying burning or poisoned status allow to use synergy that apply an aoe dot and restore some resources if you damage them during it. Of course group-wide.
  • ATreeGnome
    ATreeGnome
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    I like the idea of it giving you and your allies extra fire damage on light/heavy attacks but make the extra damage scale with the casters stats so it would be significantly better for a damage dealer to cast it than a tank, that way stam and mag DKs can be more valuable in PvE.
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