Overland and Story - BORING

Mytheos

I started tackling Elseweyr story and honestly... I'm so bored.

I think I came to a conclusion about ESO story and that is that the voice actors have gotten really good but the way it is done is SO BAD. This game could use cutscenes. I have no idea how many characters actions I've missed because my camera was pointed in the wrong spot or how many times enemy or character dialogue screws up because of how unimaginably easy the story fights are. Simply put there is no climax and the villains are pathetic because they serve no threat. You know how it's gonna go down. Last big boss fight I did I dropped one AOE and just kind of sat with my chin resting against my hand waiting to hopefully see dialogue before everything died.

The storylines also introduce characters that you never really grow attached to because they are plot device characters that seem to exist because the story wouldn't make sense without them. There is absolutely no pacing for the story and it all feels rushed. Honestly I'd love for the development teams to really look at how utterly boring any overland content is and review story design. It feels like all Im doing to "putting up" with the story to see how it ends. Kind of like a bad movie you put too much time into to turn off.

I've put off Elseweyr for soo long because I just hate to spend my free time being bored and enduring the feeling that I am a god in a land of tissue paper enemies and trying to enjoy a story that fails to captivate. Not sure if anyone else feels this way and not even sure if this post has a point other than to hopefully raise awareness over what I think to be a bit of an issue.

Alienoutlaw

then dont do it

Alienoutlaw

ESO is more than just one story, and if your playing it expecting it to be like Skyrim then you picked the wrong game, the main story line is an intro like most games to the way the game plays and feels, this then leads onto Cadwells quests that let you explore Tamriel, then within each Zone there are the inhabitants that need various things or help, then you have your delves and public dungeons, group dungeons and trials, i you was to do nothing but quest in each area finish EVERY quest solo you would find at least 6mths of solid game play, and then you have the PvP with its delves and quests.
play how you like buy seriously dont complain because you fail to dig beyond the surface

Mytheos

You can have both though. There are good stories in MMO's.

And of course there is the option of simply not playing but what if everyone took that attitude? I think you'd be left in a very lonely game that would have to close up shop. Just curious if anyone else feels this way. If so maybe this gets some notice and has something done about it.

You know... Morrowind was rather good for story. I felt a little invested, enemies were way too simple and again like cutting through tissue paper but the story was better.

Iccotak

I enjoy the games story. However it does depend on what you're looking for.
World of Warcraft is more of the cinematic storytelling experience.
Elder Scrolls has never really had that kind of visual storytelling but imo it is very epic.

I do think it is hard to be invested in Elsweyr if you haven't done the base game first.

Best order to do the content imo
- Coldharbor/Tamriel
- Imperial City (optional)
- Craglorn (optional)
- Orsinium
- Morrowind
- Clockwork City
- Summerset
- Murkmire
- Wrathstone Prologue
- Elsweyr

If I am doing a sneaking character then I do Thieves Guild + Dark Brotherhood in between Orsinium and Morrowind.
Make sure to do Dungeons with Friends or in Group Finder

MartiniDaniels

I agree. Though ESO has a lot of amazing quests and characters, they are too often watered down by uninspired content, which in combination with pointlessly easy combat and lack of notable rewards makes questing a chore.

You just sift thru them to find those jewels of interesting stories and lore, but you usually buy and load game to have fun, not to "sift"..

Three weeks ago I gave a shot to another game, which is often used as reference to grinding, auto-leveling and so on, but there is key differences in terms of rewards and challenge, which makes other game's questing much more engaging.

So my opinion is not that quests and writing are boring or bad, but it is because core gameplay is boring (too easy and unrewarding), quests became boring too.

P.S. yes, my quest characters don't have CP, crafted gear or consumables, they only use what dropped and run not min-maxed hybrid builds. Still pointlessly easy.

Robo_Hobo

I personally really enjoy the stories and lore, but it would be a great improvement to have an optional setting to up the difficulty, they go through the trouble of creating some pretty interesting boss mechanics but they just end up falling flat for anyone that isn't experienced in the game's combat mechanics, and nerfing down only does so much to alleviate it.

Frior once mentioned that there was a plan to have had released a difficulty setting (can't remember the exact words) alongside the release of One Tamriel back then, but it never happened. He mentioned maybe considering it again in the future, though, so hopefully, they go back to the idea sometimes. It'd go a long way for experienced players who like a bit of danger in their adventures to be able to do so without compromising other aspects of the game, which only has limited success as it is.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

When I got back to the game last year after a long break, I started out by doing the Wrothgar main quest on my old NB character, to get into the game again. I managed to get through it, with some struggles here and there which I found reasonable, like depending on help from others for delve bosses and public dungeons.

Then, after having played ESO like a single player game for weeks and not caring one bit about any changes that might have affected my old build from 2015, I started actually looking into what I could do to improve and adapt to all the changes that had been made since I left. It turned out I had a severly gimped and outdated hybrid mag/stam sap-healer/tank NB build with bad CP140 gear (The level cap was "VR14" when I took a break back in 2015), no monster set, badly chosen crafted-only armor sets, and I did not use light attack weaving or any self-buffs or synergies to speak of. I could easily triple my damage *and* increase my survivability by just farming and crafting some new gear, redistributing my attribute points, using a slightly different set of skills and adding some left clicks between the number button presses.

Then I went to Vvardenfell, eagerly anticipating the Morrowind chapter to bring back some fond memories of TES:III.

Suddenly, everything in sight melted at my feet in seconds, and I had no problems soloing delve bosses and public dungeons. World bosses were still a challenge, but I could actually solo several of those as well, with some effort.

Then I realized I had still not spent a single Champion point, and made some effort on that front as well.

I breezed through Vvardenfell, thinking it was laughably easy and not really enjoying myself. "You mean this big bad monster? Sure, how about I poke it with my stick a couple of times. There, dead. Anything else? No?"

Before I took on Summerset, I reverted back to another old build, a Templar which was even more of a sorry mess than what my NB had been, and made sure not to make it too good before I took on the overland quests. Still, I couldn't help trying some new things, and pretty soon that character felt overpowered as well.

I understand that PvE overland quests can't be too hard, or new players will give up and rage quit. I have helped new players get through fights which I consider laughably easy, and I see how the difficulty is probably just right for them. However, I would really like to be able to take on the Elsweyr quests with one of my reasonably well developed characters and have at least some challenge without deliberately crippling them with bad gear and bad skills. Even starting a new character in Elsweyr was ridiculously easy - so much so that I lost interest in the zone after a short while.

I am old enough in the game to remember the sorry mess that was "VR zones" back in 2015, and how we complained about the content being too difficult for solo players of average skill or less. We are now at the opposite end of the scale, where overland content is way too easy for anyone but the least experienced players.

I'm not sure what to do about this. I just find it sad that I am not enjoying most of the game content. I have a strong preference for questing, and I really like the storytelling and the environments in ESO, but the PvE fights in the overland quests are just stupid easy. Sure, I can run veteran dungeons and trials, and I do, but that's a very small part of this huge game. I would like to be able to enjoy the main quests as well, and that enjoyment requires at least some challenge.

Conduit0

The ease of overland content is the direct result of One Tamriel, because of that all overland story content has to be doable for a naked lvl 1 character. So of course its painfully easy for any remotely competently put together character.

AcadianPaladin

I've not anywhere near completed Elsweyr but have completed all other main and DLC zone quest lines and, overall, I love questing in ESO. I enjoy the questlines and like the wide variety of repeatable content in the game. Difficulty of quest bosses is geared to newer and casual players and I totally get/accept that. My CP1200 doesn't even mind though I understand if others might like the ability to have a vet mode option available for questing for those who would like it. I find cut scenes (in games that have them) as undesirable and distracting.

Now that all said, questing is certainly not perfect. For some reason, despite the massive size of the game, there are indeed only a handful of NPC that my character forms a close bond with (Queen Ayrenn, the Wilderqueen, 'Alchemy', Velaste) are a few that come to mind). My biggest complaint in this area is the fact that there is little or no interaction available with any NPCs that my little elf does grow close to. Velaste, for example, literally disappears after the quest line.

Oh, and I will say that, generally, I prefer Alliance zone questing to DLC/Chapter zone questing. I literally enjoy every Alliance zone but here are some of the reasons I'm 'not so much' regarding DLC/Chapter zones (again, in general):
Summerset - Do whole zone resisting urge to hate all Altmer.
Morrowind - Do whole zone resisting urge to hate all Dunmer.
(By contrast, I loved learning more about the wonderful Argonians who inhabit Murkmire.)
Wrothgar - Fight terrain blocking to travel through much of the zone.
Gold Coast - LOVE the Oblivion nostalgia of the zone but my little elf won't touch the DB (personal problem, I know).
Craglorn - I'm a soloist. Though much of the zone can enjoyably be done by a decent solo player, there are aspects that cannot.

dcam86b14_ESO

Everyone's experience is different. I enjoy the story in ESO and I sit through dialogue.

Iccotak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree. Though ESO has a lot of amazing quests and characters, they are too often watered down by uninspired content, which in combination with pointlessly easy combat and lack of notable rewards makes questing a chore.

You just sift thru them to find those jewels of interesting stories and lore, but you usually buy and load game to have fun, not to "sift"..

Three weeks ago I gave a shot to another game, which is often used as reference to grinding, auto-leveling and so on, but there is key differences in terms of rewards and challenge, which makes other game's questing much more engaging.

So my opinion is not that quests and writing are boring or bad, but it is because core gameplay is boring (too easy and unrewarding), quests became boring too.

P.S. yes, my quest characters don't have CP, crafted gear or consumables, they only use what dropped and run not min-maxed hybrid builds. Still pointlessly easy.

This was my major issue with Elsweyr.

Here's what I wrote after I finished.

Overland content is so depressingly easy for new players, you could watch new characters in the zone just curbstomp everything with ease. Overland doesn't need to be as hard as Craglorn, or a dungeon, or a Trial. But I am certain that new players could handle zones that were closer to the difficulty of a public dungeon.

ZOS seems to only do their best and most interesting PvE gameplay for group content, meanwhile the only challenging solo content is the maelstrom arena from the Orsinium DLC which came out 4 years ago. We know that ZOS is capable of designing more challenging solo content - so why don't they?

Just because the zone is designed to be solo-able doesn't mean that the solo content has to be boringly easy. With how powerful players can be at the start, they could certainly take on 4-5 enemies at a time that had a smarter Ai as well as more variation in their combat mechanics.
I don’t agree with Forcing players to group but I would suggest difficulty to encourage players to work together to complete content while still being solo-able by single players.

FrancisCrawford

On the whole I thought Summerset's quests and story were well done. But yes, there were cases where I didn't really know what happened because the boss fight was over so quickly, in particular before dialogue finished.

But it's always been the case that to appreciate the story one needed to move a bit slowly. E.g., when you walk up to quest givers and other relevant NPCs, they often say something instructive or flavorable BEFORE you enter official dialogue with them. And it's very natural to miss that.

Nemesis7884

dont really agree...i mostly enjoy the story...probably what i enjoy most about eso and cut scenes just bind resources that can be spent otherwise.

MLGProPlayer

The Elsweyr story definitely wasn't as interesting as some of the previous story lines. Morrowind wasn't great either, but the side quests were fantastic.

CWC, Summerset, TG, Murkmire, and Orsinium all had great stories. TG was the high point of ESO story telling IMO. Really wish we'd get a part 2 (I'm saying this as someone who hates stealth gameplay).

I do agree that a bit of challenge would definitely help with the immersion. "Oh no! It's a dragon! It's killed entire armies of our men, be careful! *Dragon dies after being hit by 3 light attacks*

TelvanniWizard

For me the peoblems with overland is that it lacks worthwhile rewards.

colossalvoids

Yh, Elsweyr seems to be the most boring one, rushed and looks more like "in progress" than actual content people should pay for. Don't get me wrong, zone looks beautiful, but main story is just a template. After IC, Orsinium, TG, DB and even more latest Morrowind /CWC / Summerset trilogy it feels like... A different game, to put lightly.
It's a shame that such a promising project took this direction of milking players and catering to broader and likely "cool teen" audience.

And they really need quest boss mechanics to be introduced and not just 1-2 encounters per dlc, but on every fight. It may be a good way to prepare new players for new dlc dungeon mechanics and at least make encounters memorable.

Hotdog_23

I wonder if part of the problem is they decided to stretch a whole chapter of content into a year long story. Which made the story a little thin in places. Elsweyr is a nice zone and the dragon fights are fun but not playing thru the main story again outside of my main character.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

I agree with the op, the writing has got lazy, yep the stories are what you expect, but the main story has nothing to do with the rest of the zone, the quest outside the main story do not intertwine with the main story, which is lazy writing

Sharee

Mytheos wrote: »

I started tackling Elseweyr story and honestly... I'm so bored.

I think I came to a conclusion about ESO story and that is that the voice actors have gotten really good but the way it is done is SO BAD. This game could use cutscenes. I have no idea how many characters actions I've missed because my camera was pointed in the wrong spot or how many times enemy or character dialogue screws up because of how unimaginably easy the story fights are. Simply put there is no climax and the villains are pathetic because they serve no threat. You know how it's gonna go down. Last big boss fight I did I dropped one AOE and just kind of sat with my chin resting against my hand waiting to hopefully see dialogue before everything died.

The storylines also introduce characters that you never really grow attached to because they are plot device characters that seem to exist because the story wouldn't make sense without them. There is absolutely no pacing for the story and it all feels rushed. Honestly I'd love for the development teams to really look at how utterly boring any overland content is and review story design. It feels like all Im doing to "putting up" with the story to see how it ends. Kind of like a bad movie you put too much time into to turn off.

I've put off Elseweyr for soo long because I just hate to spend my free time being bored and enduring the feeling that I am a god in a land of tissue paper enemies and trying to enjoy a story that fails to captivate. Not sure if anyone else feels this way and not even sure if this post has a point other than to hopefully raise awareness over what I think to be a bit of an issue.

Funny to find this post here. I was just replaying the main quest (for the umpteenth time). Assaulting the reaver citadel in coldharbour.

Vanus Galerion: "We need to kill Valkynaz Seris!"

Me: "Who?"

Vanus Galerion: "You know, the powerful guardian of the citadel who you never heard of before, and never will after!"

Me: "Sounds familiar".

SeliniaHlaalu

It's too easy yes I see, goes in too easy and falls it from.

agegarton

To add a counterpoint.......

I find that one of the things the team at ZoS does really, really well is it’s quest line design. Some are better than others, of course, but for a game of this type the ESO quests are, in my opinion, damn good.

I thought the Elsweyr quests were some of the best.

Hallothiel

Well I enjoyed it. Thought the story good with some decent characters. But hey, this is the place to b!tch and moan so it doesn’t matter.

And as has been said before, not everyone is such an op pve god that they can do all overland content with no CP/crap gear/naked. It really is quite arrogant to read such posts when I know from new players in my guild that they can find things hard.

Seriously I don’t understand - if people don’t like the game, why are they still playing it? Or worse, why have they stopped but still come onto the forums to comment? Very odd.

pdblake

I enjoyed the story and as for cutscenes, I hate them with a passion, especially if I can't skip them.

Ecstatica

I enjoy the stories and the quests, but they need to make it challenging. I get to the end of a story arc, and finally meet the 'boss character' - and the fight lasts 5 seconds. The quests are not boring, but the mindnumbing simplicity of it is.

ZOS needs to cater for those of us who have max CP chars as our mains and just want to complete on those.

mocap

ESO needs cinematic camera for dialogs. 3rd person over-the-shoulder generic view like in Witcher, Mass Effect and ton of other games.

As for more challenging overland, ZOS don't want it currently as well as most players, cuz ESO for casuals blabla etc...

zaria

The Elsweyr main quest was not the best, it might be that Zaria spread it out to much because she got distracted easy.

Lots of the side quests was also awesome, Raz was awesome, the drunken Alfiq even more so.

My main complain is all the chained doors

Gatviper

Overland story solo questbosses are way too easy for anyone but new, inexperienced players still learning the ropes. Even new players entering the game with experience from another MMOs I've heard often saying it's just silly plot fights, no challenge.
At least they could make them bit harder akin to final bosses of dolmens, to prepare people playing solo a bit for group content difficulty. Like, double their usual health amount (250k health instead of 130k for example), make them maybe do a bit more damage and some simple danger scripts, so people actually feel endangered and try to ponder how to optimize their ability usage and survival.

As it is of now, there's quite a gap between people normally playing solo, and people more interested in group content, you see solo players in PUGs often just by the way they have a hard time to play competitively AND with the group.

Grianasteri

I think the overland story content, and indeed the dungeon/trial story content, are for the most part engaging and interesting. There are of course exceptions, some boring and uninteresting story lines.

The point about overland/story enemies being ridiculously easy, is true for any championship point level player, as by this stage a character is becoming too overpowered for the overland content, and the issue only become worse as one progresses through the championship point levels.

But this is not the case for new players, for players who do not have championship points to engage on their new characters. Overland content can still challenging in these circumstances and that is the way it is designed.

This is a huge issue because it renders some really enjoyable and worthwhile content, far too easy for so many of us. The obvious flaw here is ZOS making all overland content basically the same difficulty. There is some variation, Craglorn is a bit tougher. Some DLC overland enemies and world bosses are a bit harder. But this is not enough.

One seemingly simple solution would be to stop making all overland content so easy! I believe each map area should be split further into sections where enemies become more difficult, (not load screen split, just change the nature of the enemies there) more HP, more damage output, more mechanics etc, and just more enemies to deal with even. Other areas of the game are already partitioned in similar ways - normal dungeons, dlc normal dungeons, vet dungeons, dlc vet dungeons and of course normal and vet trials.

TheShadowScout

Mytheos wrote: »

I think I came to a conclusion about ESO story and that is that the voice actors have gotten really good but the way it is done is SO BAD.

I enjoy it still. Matters of taste, maybe?

Mytheos wrote: »

This game could use cutscenes.

It certainly would make things better if we had some more of those... at least in the solo instances, where it matters not when one player is locked in cutscene-watcher mode.

Mytheos wrote: »

Simply put there is no climax and the villains are pathetic because they serve no threat.

I have to agree that many of the story fights are a bit of a cakewalk these days.
Makes me wish we could have an option to fight pre-nerf Doshia again, huh?
...
...okay, or maybe at least a bit in between.

There are some fights that are interesting. But the thing is, the current META of "all into your damage stat" makes even the tough bosses melt all too easily, and yet they have to still be defeatable for people who -don't- follow that practice, and perhaps make a ineffective hybrid character...
...which is a fault of the current game design, not the story or the bosses in themselves.
(Bring back softcaps!)

Of course, there is CP to consider too, but that is -supposed- to make your characters "powerful" so... no reason to complain if you find no challenge in normal overland content with full CP boosts. Go solo public dungeons and play in maelstrom arena instead. And if that's boring too... there are always craglon group dwelves... or PvP in cyrodil, BGs and IC.

But yeah, I really wish more bosses had special mechanics. Especially varable ones! Where there is not one "trick" to the fight, but several, and the boss enables one at random, you you gotta at least pay some attention instead of facerolling the fight...

Heck, I even wish overland content was a bit more challenging! Especially when I see some grindwanker drawing whole hordes of mobs, then burning them down with AoE for the expees when by rights they ought to be dead, dead, dead from all the stabbings!
But... alas.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I am old enough in the game to remember the sorry mess that was "VR zones" back in 2015, and how we complained about the content being too difficult for solo players of average skill or less.

I really loved those for the added challenge!
Sadly, with "one tamriel" in effect, -everything- gets the "new player difficulty" treatment. Which is okay, but... they could -still- make it a tad less "boring-easy" by adding more specials effects to a great many mobs, and maybe giving everything a NP boost all around to just make the fights last longer at the very least...

Possibly also by rethinking the current game system that makes over-specialized characters a tad too effective...

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Gold Coast - LOVE the Oblivion nostalgia of the zone but my little elf won't touch the DB (personal problem, I know).

...and don't you too wish we had gotten a second story-questline for goody-two-greaves characters for Gold Coast and Hew's Bane? I know I do! Heck, I still wish they would sell an "story upgrade" for those two regions, allowing the "lawful good" characters to play through the landscape without the murdering or stealing, and still enjoy the sights while doing something that feels worthwhile...

zaria

Gatviper wrote: »

Overland story solo questbosses are way too easy for anyone but new, inexperienced players still learning the ropes. Even new players entering the game with experience from another MMOs I've heard often saying it's just silly plot fights, no challenge.
At least they could make them bit harder akin to final bosses of dolmens, to prepare people playing solo a bit for group content difficulty. Like, double their usual health amount (250k health instead of 130k for example), make them maybe do a bit more damage and some simple danger scripts, so people actually feel endangered and try to ponder how to optimize their ability usage and survival.

As it is of now, there's quite a gap between people normally playing solo, and people more interested in group content, you see solo players in PUGs often just by the way they have a hard time to play competitively AND with the group.

Yes, increasing enemy health will make the fight longer and feel more meaningful while not making it significantly harder.

Another tricks who already is used in many fights is to have npc with you. This has one major effect in that an boss will not reset on your death as the npc will keep the fight going so you can die but not fail, in this case it can be an much harder fight.