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Algorithm, Greed, Lack of Odds

Ryvyr
Ryvyr
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Do others commonly purchase one or two 15 crate sets and receive almost exclusively potions, several copies of glamour gear, and the odd Legendary exp scroll?

People can luck into fantastic crates, others may not, and many in the middle roundabouts.

One natural response is to release flames on the forums in the case of middle scenario.

I read sommat about legislation in the works to regulate the degree loot crates could lack clarity or function. That feels like it would be welcomed overall by the community keeping the game going.
  • yodased
    yodased
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    I've spent millions on crates and I'm generally fine with the outcome, but then again I don't spend IRL money.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    I don't gamble on things that release their official odds of different reward tiers.

    I definitely don't gamble on Crown Crates that don't release their official odds of different reward tiers.
  • Ryvyr
    Ryvyr
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    The ever subjective philosophy of "when enough is enough" belies a central tenet in algorithms determining the contents of crates.

    Plenty people manage to acquire unavoidably promoted vanity gear with naught more than monthly subscription crowns and gold, and plenty more, if I understand the ecosystem of micros well enough, spend far more on them above and beyond the monthly subscription for the craft bag slot, which is why they lock it into that~

    Share holders, quarterly profits, how much pressure can be levied on the player base for profit before enough people react sufficiently as to tweak the numbers just enough to lose minimal profit.

    Not in all games and communities, but seems most prevalent in the AAA group. Excess profits beyond what would more satiate the customers, who create the company's wealth, are dependent upon the generally reliably psychology of effective advertisement and mass consumerism culture, now quite global setting aside the places in world worst off.

    In buying a crate, it would seem more reasonable to land in a spread of percentile with good and bad luck wiggle room proportionate to the bracket of item rarity - the problem appears that the baseline numbers are all quite egregious, which is where the notion of avarice springs.

    In the end, aside the potions which arguably should not be in crates with how they effect gameplay, it is all vanity and could simply be ignored (also setting aside the broader discourse about pay model benefits). So it could generally be dismissed as such.
    People often cling to that as though it were a unique argument.
    The problem with that argument becomes special pleading in comparable yet deigned exempt from scrutiny circumstances, and understandably so given how varied and capricious "value" is on whole.

    At any rate, I think it no unique notion to think it reasonable if the baseline RNG were higher for Epic, Legendary, and Apex/Apex Prime whatever it is called loot.
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    yodased wrote: »
    I've spent millions on crates and I'm generally fine with the outcome, but then again I don't spend IRL money.

    ^This.^

    I've only had crates gifted using my in-game gold ... not IRL money.

    That way I don't have to write a 10-paragraph forums protest that the outcome "wasn't fair".

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on August 7, 2019 2:28AM
    "May you walk on warm sands."
    "First, I would ask that you look to the poor and the suffering around Cyrodiil. Look into their hearts, and then look into your own."
    "May Auri-El's light guide you in your darkest hours."

    North American (NA) PC Megaserver (click to view):
    Vilerihala - Magicka Templar (Altmer ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Màisalihna - Stamina Dragonknight (Bosmer) ~ Áhliaselia - Stamina Templar (Bosmer) ~ Thraccenia Vendicci - Stamina Sorcerer (Imperial) ~ daa'Vaaliánia - Magicka Warden (Dunmer) ~ Wenayastare - Magicka Dragonknight (Altmer) ~ Aráliavina - Stamina Nightblade (Bosmer) ~ Ysyna Rielle - Magicka Warden (Breton) ~ Dro-r'Aahni Bright-Paws - Magicka Necromancer (Khajiit) ~ Rhusannah - Stamina Nightblade (Redguard) ~ Eirellonye - Magicka Nightblade (Altmer) ~ Lae'Suuriávia - Stamina Warden (Bosmer) ~ Dralora Savani - Magicka Sorcerer (Dunmer) ~ Billows-With-Incense - Magicka Warden (Argonian ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Anísa'Vardaia - Health Dragonknight (Imperial) ~ Azhnakha gra-Shugarz - Stamina Necromancer (Orc) ~ Vilinalara - Magicka Sorcerer (Altmer ~ Grand Master Crafter)
  • Ryvyr
    Ryvyr
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    That way I don't have to write a 10-paragraph forums protest that the outcome "wasn't fair".

    Whatever the reasoning for this added edit, the posts are not to highlight "fairness" but rather draw attention to the philosophical and sociological business angle of why algorithms are set as they are, and if even unintended is a fundamental misrepresentation.

    If continuing further, perhaps remain on subject material?

    Apathy can be frighteningly effective for enjoying one's time in an MMO, though the focus was on how algorithms are so silent yet invasive, and the suggestion to raise the baseline percentile as to deliver more reliable value proportionate to the cost strictly on the currency side.

    I am genuinely happy that your gold is sufficient to enjoy the boxes, and wish fortune in any future boxes.
  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
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    A lot of fancy words there

    How about...

    'crates r bad'

    About cover it?
  • Ryvyr
    Ryvyr
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    Zacuel wrote: »
    A lot of fancy words there

    How about...

    'crates r bad'

    About cover it?

    If it were, that might seem optimal, though is not the central argument at all (crates can be fun, minus a litany of objections).

    An attempted TLDR:

    Crates are enjoyed by many people, are heavily pushed, and thus its contents ought be proportionately ethical in how much is spent to how much is acquired - rather than what seems the case of keeping percentile as feasibly low (the highest ratio of deigned justified spending) as to maintain the highest profit for shareholders and quarterly earnings.

    More nuance:

    Consider the demonstrable nature of competition over limited resources. If it can be assured to a populous with some X probability greater than some X resource is lost in otherwise competition, there tends to be a leveling point of non-violence from at least one metric, of which there are many (we are social, empathetic animals who can plan far into future, for instance).

    Back to TESO, the monthly subscription allots 1500C per month, as well there are ways to acquire currency without the pay model, so there are at least multiple methods not accounting for receiving anything.

    The content in boxes itself is notably advertised and not a small proportion of revenue derives from micros in general, when last checked. People tend to enjoy the boxes (minus a longer dip into the role of advertisement and creating demand), yet are still purely optional to play the bulk of game (minus some disadvantages not having crown potions, exp boost, and bonus food). It is because of how saturated the Crown Store is into the base game within and without that the methodology of loot acquisition be the more ethical within context of currency spent (as well gold spent, albeit to a lesser degree).
  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    Scam crates are a scam. Period.
    Si hoc imprimis intellegis, nolli dubitare, scribe me ad latine loquendum. Lingua est colenda.

    PAWS - Say NO to crown crates!

  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
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    Ryvyr wrote: »
    Zacuel wrote: »
    A lot of fancy words there

    How about...

    'crates r bad'

    About cover it?

    If it were, that might seem optimal, though is not the central argument at all (crates can be fun, minus a litany of objections).

    An attempted TLDR:

    Crates are enjoyed by many people, are heavily pushed, and thus its contents ought be proportionately ethical in how much is spent to how much is acquired - rather than what seems the case of keeping percentile as feasibly low (the highest ratio of deigned justified spending) as to maintain the highest profit for shareholders and quarterly earnings.

    More nuance:

    Consider the demonstrable nature of competition over limited resources. If it can be assured to a populous with some X probability greater than some X resource is lost in otherwise competition, there tends to be a leveling point of non-violence from at least one metric, of which there are many (we are social, empathetic animals who can plan far into future, for instance).

    Back to TESO, the monthly subscription allots 1500C per month, as well there are ways to acquire currency without the pay model, so there are at least multiple methods not accounting for receiving anything.

    The content in boxes itself is notably advertised and not a small proportion of revenue derives from micros in general, when last checked. People tend to enjoy the boxes (minus a longer dip into the role of advertisement and creating demand), yet are still purely optional to play the bulk of game (minus some disadvantages not having crown potions, exp boost, and bonus food). It is because of how saturated the Crown Store is into the base game within and without that the methodology of loot acquisition be the more ethical within context of currency spent (as well gold spent, albeit to a lesser degree).

    So uhh.... Crates are bad. Gotcha.
  • deadsheepb14_ESO
    deadsheepb14_ESO
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    It's actually 1650 crowns per month for ESO+ now. :)
  • Delparis
    Delparis
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    because you want to win the casino game?
    ZOS don't fix old bugs, they harbor them
  • huntgod_ESO
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    Not saying any company does this but if they are not required to to publish odds and legitimately use them, then they could theoretically shift the odds as needed to maximize the gratification curve that they exploit with these boxes, shifting them in real time to keep you going.

    They use techniques and strategies that belong in Las Vegas and have absolutely no regulation in how they use those techniques to exploit their players perceptions and expectations. They've had the free run, now they are looking at a regulation hammer if they don't get their houses in order. So you can expect them to milk these monetization models for everything they work as they lead up to proposing a self regulation plan or get regulated by the state. It's going to happen if they intend to sell products outside the US in countries where they take consumer protection seriously.
    --- HuntGod ---
    Officer of the Unrepentant
    www.unrepentantgaming.com
  • ProbablePaul
    ProbablePaul
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    I don't mean to come at you, here, but your passive voice is so strong that I swear, it's tricking me into believing your thoughts are incongruent and unrelated to one another.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself." - George Bernard Shaw

    Retired until performance issues are addressed.
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
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    You can put any vehicle you want on the racetrack that is ESO, just don't blame anybody but yourself if your VW bus gets passed by a Ferrari.
  • GenjiraX
    GenjiraX
    Publishing the odds is right and proper but I don’t think it will put many people off buying crates. Most people know what they’re buying. I use them sparingly as a treat while I’m waiting for bounty to count down. I don’t expect big ticket items but I’m chuffed when I get them. Knowing the odds won’t change anything for me.
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