Would Nova be equivalent to a destro ulti?

Hamiltonmath

So, we are in VCR and we are primarily Templars and Magsorcs. One member brought up the idea of running Nova (Solar Prison) instead of destro ulti. Like any trial lead, I thought I could at least entertain the situation, especially since all our tanks run Harmony, which would really boost up the damage of a synergy (and create another synergy, improving Alkosh times).

My initial thought was that it was a bad idea. Obviously, not meta. It's not showing up on esologs or youtube videos, so it wouldn't work. Too much damage loss. But then I ran the numbers. Being that the ulti costs are identical, I wanted to see the tooltip disparity. And there was a big disparity. Now, I'm at work, so I can't check with my actual dps, so all I have is UESP (Thus, correct me if I'm wrong).

Destro ulti is 6216 x 7 x 1.1 (fire bonus) for a total of 47,863.2
Solar Prison is 3283 x 8 = 26,264 + 12470 x 2.05 (actual damage + 3(35%) for harmony buff which is 25,5653.5 for a grand total of 51,827.9.

This is actually HIGHER than a destro ulti by 3,965.1 AND (possibly even more importantly) would create a Major Maim for the 8 seconds that applies to the enemy, not the individual caster.

It's completely theorycrafted (Thx Bacon!), but where are the flaws in this argument?

Hamiltonmath

I also noticed a couple more things that actually tip the favor for Nova. A small thing: Enemies stun for 5 seconds. Probably wouldn't help much in vcr. I'm sure Zmaja and the orbs are immune, and more than likely the number of spewers and striders will be minimal. I do wonder if it would work on a monstrosity (and obviously creepers don't move anyway).

Looking at the passives (another super small minor one), Illuminate is going to grant Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds. I'm guessing that is up 100% of the time anyway.

And another pretty small one, Restoring Spirit is going to make the ulti cost 240, not 250. And I'm not sure if it would apply, but Prism would grant you 3 ulti (not sure if this would be giving before or after the ulti was activated), effectively making the ulti only cost 237.

And a big one that I did miss, Enduring Rays is going to add 2 seconds at (UESP reported) 3283 = 6566 MORE on top of the 3965.1 we already knew about making a Nova actually worth over 10K more than a destro ult. (10,531.1)

zvavi

Destro ult is 8 ticks

Hamiltonmath

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Destruction_Staff

Not saying you are wrong, but I was going by this.

Create a cataclysmic storm at the target location that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies in the area, dealing [6018 / 6084 / 6150 / 6216] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. Fiery Rage increases the damage by 10%. Icy Rage immobilizes enemies hit for 3 seconds. Thunderous Rage increases the duration by 2 seconds.

I'm curious as to what is meant by builds for 2 seconds.

Hamiltonmath

Also curious as to what YOUR tooltip pulls for Destro ulti and Solar Prison. This is completely a generic version.

zvavi

To be honest on my templar my destro ult is not leveled... I am sweeping everything, but solar prison has a total of 56,410 while sweep is 32,076, meteor over 60k (not morphed as well) destro (not morphed lvl 1) 46k

Hamiltonmath

Found a bonus for Elemental Storm: Guaranteed to apply burning effect.

Hamiltonmath

But, possibly, it wouldn't matter if there is a Perfected Asylum Inferno in group. Or at least, it would be negligible.

TheGreatBlackBear

Depends on the context. If the destro is dropped on a trash pack (which is where most of them are dropped anyway) you'll get mag back if something dies. If it's on boss then why not use sweeps? In the time it takes to build a destro/nova a magplar could use two or even three sweeps. As for the major maim, that shouldn't really be a factor. If tanks are doing their job and dps aren't standing in stupid nothing really hits that hard with the exception of the monstrosities.

Hamiltonmath

Interesting comment TheGreatBlackBear.

For curiousity, I ran more numbers:
25,755.2 damage from Sweeps / 75 ulti cost is about 343 damage per ultimate consumed.
58,393.9 damage from Nova / 250 ulti is about 233.6 damage per ultimate consumed.

WrathOfInnos

Nova damage isn’t bad, but I wouldn’t count on Harmony when calculating it. It’s usually better to have DPS synergize it, since they will have about 6k more Spell Pen, as well as several other damage multipliers (CP’s, Slayer, Berserk, weapon passives). Destro is pretty bad in vCR, so not a great comparison. Look at the damage per ult on Shooting Star, especially considering how much ult it instantly restores. Storm Atronach is a great choice for Sorcerers (at least until the pet nerf) to boost single target damage. Both of these also give passives for slotting, unlike Nova or Destro.