Precise or Infused

MrBrownstone

I hear that Precise front bar is the new meta on Magicka dd. My Sorcerer however uses Atronach instead of Shadow so is it better if I stay with Infused? Can someone give me some numbers for comparison?

DKMaestro

Guessing the difference is extremely small and probably not worth stressing about, unless you are a really competitive and optimized raid group.

unclesheosnephew

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

RexyCat

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I hear that Precise front bar is the new meta on Magicka dd. My Sorcerer however uses Atronach instead of Shadow so is it better if I stay with Infused? Can someone give me some numbers for comparison?

You know that Infused only have impact on Glyph for that piece of armour or weapon that is getting an increase from this trait? Divine is the only trait is related to use of Mondus Stones.

//RexyCat

MrBrownstone

RexyCat wrote: »

You know that Infused only have impact on Glyph for that piece of armour or weapon that is getting an increase from this trait? Divine is the only trait is related to use of Mondus Stones.

//RexyCat

Infused trait on Weapons has nothing to do with Mundus stones, yes, but Precise is good with Shadow Mundus. That's why I'm asking.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

RexyCat wrote: »

You know that Infused only have impact on Glyph for that piece of armour or weapon that is getting an increase from this trait? Divine is the only trait is related to use of Mondus Stones.

//RexyCat

Infused trait on Weapons has nothing to do with Mundus stones, yes, but Precise is good with Shadow Mundus. That's why I'm asking.

Infused back bar weapon to apply the Spell/Weapon damage glyph, with the AOE Dots (eg elemental blockade, caltrops, endless hail, poison injection, blazing spear etc )

Front bar depends what you want either Precise for more critical, or sharpened for more penetration. Some build depending using Nirnhoned for more weapon damage, if they have over 60% crit and over 7000 penetration already.

The glyph on the front bar is irrelevant to use Infused, except only if you plan to use 1 bar build like the 1-bar pet sorc one. Where you would have the Spell/Weapon damage glyph.

Y2J

In optimised raid groups, with high uptimes on major force, precise front bar is better. However, in solo or less organised groups, Ive found infused front bar better. Back bar should always be infused.

Y2J

Precise front bar is also better for trash fights

Kel

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

That's only half right.
It's also an acronym for Most Effective Tactics Available.
So, if a certain type of build, be it cookie cutter or not, is by far the most effective build, the acronym of meta would most certainly fit.

https://imgur.com/a/CAji7zh

WrathOfInnos

Depends on a few things. Assuming you use a Flame glyph on the front bar, Infused will usually perform slightly better for single target. For AoE, Precise is much better, since it affects all the targets you are hitting. Now with the Shadow Stone and Major/Minor Force, Precise becomes so close to Infused for pure single target that many will choose it for various other reasons (splash damage, works while CC'd, needs recharging half as often). On Templar and Nightblade (with their 10% extra crit damage), Precise can even outperform Infused. Now a few reasons you might want Infused:
- Not using the Shadow Stone (although I would recommend swapping, it is much better than Atronach)
- Only 1-2 Magicka DPS in group so you are responsible for a lot of burning uptime (to make Flame Wall hit harder)
- Need the sustain from Infused Absorb Magicka enchant (it will return more magicka and activate twice as often)

ZarkingFrued

Kel wrote: »

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

That's only half right.
It's also an acronym for Most Effective Tactics Available.
So, if a certain type of build, be it cookie cutter or not, is by far the most effective build, the acronym of meta would most certainly fit.

https://imgur.com/a/CAji7zh

Was wondering who would explain to this guy what meta means 🤣

Betty_Booms

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

I do partly agree with what you are saying. Meta builds are generally theory crafted, tested and compared to ascertain if they are at the height of performance.

Thus the context of beyond is fulfilled in this process and you could argue that a build is not in fact BIS if one has not taken the effort to go beyond the general standard of game play to identify this.

Streamers use the word like its going out of fashion and the word has somewhat evolved to be known as BIS and whilst it may well be it is still contextually incorrect because meta builds may also be bad having followed the same reasoning....

Betty_Booms

Precise OP. Better overall effectiveness.
Crit is king after reaching penitration cap.
Shadow mundus is also strongest in terms of dps. If you need more sustain then you can find it in other ways such as false gods set, jewelery glyphs, food, vampire passives etc.

As mentioned infused is the best option for the back bar as it decreases the cd of the berserker enchant effectively allowing 100% uptime as it procs off weapon skill ground affects such as endless hails and blockade.

Dont overlook pen either as another viable option trait.

Best way is to buy a robust dummy and have at it in your house. Test some stuff.

MrBrownstone

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Depends on a few things. Assuming you use a Flame glyph on the front bar, Infused will usually perform slightly better for single target. For AoE, Precise is much better, since it affects all the targets you are hitting. Now with the Shadow Stone and Major/Minor Force, Precise becomes so close to Infused for pure single target that many will choose it for various other reasons (splash damage, works while CC'd, needs recharging half as often). On Templar and Nightblade (with their 10% extra crit damage), Precise can even outperform Infused. Now a few reasons you might want Infused:
- Not using the Shadow Stone (although I would recommend swapping, it is much better than Atronach)
- Only 1-2 Magicka DPS in group so you are responsible for a lot of burning uptime (to make Flame Wall hit harder)
- Need the sustain from Infused Absorb Magicka enchant (it will return more magicka and activate twice as often)

Thank you, this was the most helpful answer.

Btw I use Atronach because I don't want to switch Mundus everytime I go for PvP, Atronach still has some use in PvE but Shadow is useless in PvP.

I also tested my damage and apparently I didn't lose a lot, I still do 45k and that's enough for me. I prefer the comfort of not worrying about sustain.

Androconium

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

That's only half right.
It's also an acronym for Most Effective Tactics Available.
So, if a certain type of build, be it cookie cutter or not, is by far the most effective build, the acronym of meta would most certainly fit.

https://imgur.com/a/CAji7zh

Was wondering who would explain to this guy what meta means 🤣

• meta is a concept that is an abstraction behind another concept
• acronym of Most Effective Tactics Available is written META.

Clearly, everyone using the word meta/META has no idea about either the meaning'; or the correct usage.
Quite frankly, the rest of us don't really care about either anyway...

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I hear that Precise front bar is the new meta on Magicka dd. My Sorcerer however uses Atronach instead of Shadow so is it better if I stay with Infused? Can someone give me some numbers for comparison?

No numbers.
Go and read what each of the descriptions for Precise; Infused and Sharpened are for your SPECIFIC weapon and/or gear, as that is what it relates to. If you still don't understand, relax in the knowledge that 99% of other players don't either.

Go out and die. Then change your own setup piece by piece until you stop dying. If you don't understand enchantments; or foods; or potions; and how they all fit together, then it might take a while.

Or just come here and ask. See how your question gets taken out of all context.

Have an GOOD TIME.

Carbonised

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

You're the one who doesn't know the meaning of the word meta. Meta is the "surrounding" or the background for the thing in question, just like a metatheory, metacognition, metaphysics etc. It has nothing whatsoever to do with being "opposite". Meta changes with the balance changes, so a while ago Sharpened was the best trait for damage, so everyone used Sharp, and that was the "meta" of that period, the background on which people made their individual variations. Balance changes, and the "meta" switches from one trait to the other, or from light/medium to heavy armor in pvp, or whichever. Your personal definition of the term "meta", however, isn't the one supported by dictionaries.

DPShiro

For single target, if you do above 60-65k DPS then Precise is better, below that Infused wins.

MrBrownstone

Androconium wrote: »

No numbers.
Go and read what each of the descriptions for Precise; Infused and Sharpened are for your SPECIFIC weapon and/or gear, as that is what it relates to. If you still don't understand, relax in the knowledge that 99% of other players don't either.

Go out and die. Then change your own setup piece by piece until you stop dying. If you don't understand enchantments; or foods; or potions; and how they all fit together, then it might take a while.

Or just come here and ask. See how your question gets taken out of all context.

Have an GOOD TIME.

Dude what are you talking about

Haquor

Androconium wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

That's only half right.
It's also an acronym for Most Effective Tactics Available.
So, if a certain type of build, be it cookie cutter or not, is by far the most effective build, the acronym of meta would most certainly fit.

https://imgur.com/a/CAji7zh

Was wondering who would explain to this guy what meta means 🤣

• meta is a concept that is an abstraction behind another concept
• acronym of Most Effective Tactics Available is written META.

Clearly, everyone using the word meta/META has no idea about either the meaning'; or the correct usage.
Quite frankly, the rest of us don't really care about either anyway...

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I hear that Precise front bar is the new meta on Magicka dd. My Sorcerer however uses Atronach instead of Shadow so is it better if I stay with Infused? Can someone give me some numbers for comparison?

No numbers.
Go and read what each of the descriptions for Precise; Infused and Sharpened are for your SPECIFIC weapon and/or gear, as that is what it relates to. If you still don't understand, relax in the knowledge that 99% of other players don't either.

Go out and die. Then change your own setup piece by piece until you stop dying. If you don't understand enchantments; or foods; or potions; and how they all fit together, then it might take a while.

Or just come here and ask. See how your question gets taken out of all context.

Have an GOOD TIME.

So random.

Androconium

DPShiro wrote: »

For single target, if you do above 60-65k DPS then Precise is better, below that Infused wins.

See? Advice from a representative of the 1% that care about this stuff. talks about "above 65K DPS".

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

No numbers.
Go and read what each of the descriptions for Precise; Infused and Sharpened are for your SPECIFIC weapon and/or gear, as that is what it relates to. If you still don't understand, relax in the knowledge that 99% of other players don't either.

Go out and die. Then change your own setup piece by piece until you stop dying. If you don't understand enchantments; or foods; or potions; and how they all fit together, then it might take a while.

Or just come here and ask. See how your question gets taken out of all context.

Have an GOOD TIME.

Dude what are you talking about

Kel

Androconium wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

For single target, if you do above 60-65k DPS then Precise is better, below that Infused wins.

See? Advice from a representative of the 1% that care about this stuff. talks about "above 65K DPS".

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

No numbers.
Go and read what each of the descriptions for Precise; Infused and Sharpened are for your SPECIFIC weapon and/or gear, as that is what it relates to. If you still don't understand, relax in the knowledge that 99% of other players don't either.

Go out and die. Then change your own setup piece by piece until you stop dying. If you don't understand enchantments; or foods; or potions; and how they all fit together, then it might take a while.

Or just come here and ask. See how your question gets taken out of all context.

Have an GOOD TIME.

Dude what are you talking about

But...um...that was pretty much what the OP was asking. He literally asked for numbers. Read the OP again. "Can someone give me numbers for comparison?" The OP obviously "cares about this stuff" as well, or wouldn't have asked for numbers.
Getting bent out of shape about the answer is pretty strange.

If the topic bothered you so much, you could've just skipped this thread.

MLGProPlayer

It should be noted that there won't be a "front bar" anymore this patch. Due to the number of DoTs you will have, you'll be spending equal amounts of time on both bars (you won't have time for a spammable anymore).

That might change the meta, so I'd hold off on transmuting anything.

Also, it would be awesome if Asayre still played this game. Their math was such a valuable resource for determining the meta.

goldenarcher1

All above is wrong.

Big moustache is META in next patch.

WrathOfInnos

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It should be noted that there won't be a "front bar" anymore this patch. Due to the number of DoTs you will have, you'll be spending equal amounts of time on both bars (you won't have time for a spammable anymore).

That might change the meta, so I'd hold off on transmuting anything.

Also, it would be awesome if Asayre still played this game. Their math was such a valuable resource for determining the meta.

That is an interesting point as far as time spent on each bar. I think there will still be a front bar though. For Magicka, we will still need Wall of Elements to proc enchants while on the other bar, specifically Infused Berserker for most builds. It will still be worth using a vMA Staff for the Light Attack buff, so that will still go on the bar with Wall. The other bar will still have a 5pc set that is lost on the vMA bar. This may also apply to Stamina, I’m not sure where the meta will land there. Seems like Hail will still be used for enchant procs at least, and back bar will still have either a Master or vMA bow.

Runefang

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It should be noted that there won't be a "front bar" anymore this patch. Due to the number of DoTs you will have, you'll be spending equal amounts of time on both bars (you won't have time for a spammable anymore).

That might change the meta, so I'd hold off on transmuting anything.

Also, it would be awesome if Asayre still played this game. Their math was such a valuable resource for determining the meta.

That is an interesting point as far as time spent on each bar. I think there will still be a front bar though. For Magicka, we will still need Wall of Elements to proc enchants while on the other bar, specifically Infused Berserker for most builds. It will still be worth using a vMA Staff for the Light Attack buff, so that will still go on the bar with Wall. The other bar will still have a 5pc set that is lost on the vMA bar. This may also apply to Stamina, I’m not sure where the meta will land there. Seems like Hail will still be used for enchant procs at least, and back bar will still have either a Master or vMA bow.

I've only tested a new static Magden rotation myself and it spends 38% of the time on the back bar. For comparison on live I spend 27% of the time on my back bar. It's still worth having a "front bar" thanks to Shalks being so strong.

Not sure how other classes are going to work since other than Magcro I guess they're all likely to have close to a 50/50 split.

I haven't played with gear set ups much on the PTS but I'd think that if time is split evenly having a buff that carries over between bars will be mandatory. I can't see the Mother's Sorrow front bar meta continuing. I know when testing my Magden having Siroria on the front bar did much better than Mother's Sorrow front bar.

Partomax

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

META is just short for most effective tactic available so it would be BiS in this case. I understand that meta is actually a word but that's not what anybody means when they say it.

Runefang

unclesheosnephew wrote: »

people really dont know the meaning of the word meta I am assuming still. The meaning of meta isnt most used or best in slot. It means to go beyond, so if you were wanting the meta build this means you would have to go beyond and figure it out. Meta as used in gaming these days is laughable because its probably the opposite of the actual meaning. Meta-same used over and over, meta is meant to be different with each transition, its never meant to have the definition cookie cutter. So try leaning towards true meta and go beyond what you have now.

When I arrange certain symbols (aka letters) in a certain order with the intention of conveying a specific meaning and others read those symbols and interpret them with the same meaning that I intended we have communicated effectively.

Meta and it's meaning in the context of gaming is well understood by those who use the word. Simples.