Dungeon finder etiquette?
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jdamuso
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Can we get some flags on dungeons to require boss completion. And something to ensure people can turn in their quests before the party rapidly disbands?
Maybe just completely remove the kicked from dungeon mechanic.
I mean seriously puging in RDF is obnoxious AF when you get 810s that run through and leave a trail of adds for the lower levels to struggle with while they solo the bosses leaveing no loot for the guys that could actually use it.
Why is it years later of this behavior and it has not been addressed by ZOS.
I find that negligent. There should be some sort of demand to allow players to run a dungeon as intended.
Sure i can just walk in and solo the dungeons... but really? this behavior needs to be tolerated?
And what about new players that normal dungeons are still difficult and dudes are allowed to do this?
Howabout a rating system so players with consistent low ratings get tossed to the end of the RDF que whenever someone with higher ratings gets into que.
That'd put a quick end to bad dungeon behavior.
At the end of the dungeon rate each player thumbs up or thumbs down (ACCOUNT WIDE) . make it required... yes people will troll and thumbs down everyone but that wont matter with consistent dungeon running the majority of players will follow the premise as they do not want to be "in the bad" So they are not penalized in the queue process. After a large amount of dungeons regardless of thumbs down trolls a very clear rating will form and those players that are just horrible to run dungeons with will be identified. allowing penalties to be fairly distributed.
Maybe something even better than this system ^... But something of the like to correct the having to deal with the intolerable.... My ignore list is getting WAY TOO LONG so dont say just put em on ignore... its not working. they keep coming...
Flame or Support. Go.
Maybe just completely remove the kicked from dungeon mechanic.
I mean seriously puging in RDF is obnoxious AF when you get 810s that run through and leave a trail of adds for the lower levels to struggle with while they solo the bosses leaveing no loot for the guys that could actually use it.
Why is it years later of this behavior and it has not been addressed by ZOS.
I find that negligent. There should be some sort of demand to allow players to run a dungeon as intended.
Sure i can just walk in and solo the dungeons... but really? this behavior needs to be tolerated?
And what about new players that normal dungeons are still difficult and dudes are allowed to do this?
Howabout a rating system so players with consistent low ratings get tossed to the end of the RDF que whenever someone with higher ratings gets into que.
That'd put a quick end to bad dungeon behavior.
At the end of the dungeon rate each player thumbs up or thumbs down (ACCOUNT WIDE) . make it required... yes people will troll and thumbs down everyone but that wont matter with consistent dungeon running the majority of players will follow the premise as they do not want to be "in the bad" So they are not penalized in the queue process. After a large amount of dungeons regardless of thumbs down trolls a very clear rating will form and those players that are just horrible to run dungeons with will be identified. allowing penalties to be fairly distributed.
Maybe something even better than this system ^... But something of the like to correct the having to deal with the intolerable.... My ignore list is getting WAY TOO LONG so dont say just put em on ignore... its not working. they keep coming...
Flame or Support. Go.
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es4eva✭✭✭That's the risk of PUG. If you want a consistently pleasant experience, group up with friends or guild mates. I agree that it's a swamp, but that's the risk you take with a rando.7
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Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Been saying it for awhile, an ESO version of GW2 lfg system. GW2 has the best lfg system I have ever seen/played.4 -
jdamuso✭✭✭✭Afaik, ignore doesn't prevent you from getting grouped together.
Well then all the more reason to do a little something.That's the risk of PUG. If you want a consistently pleasant experience, group up with friends or guild mates. I agree that it's a swamp, but that's the risk you take with a rando.
This is EXACTLY my point. This should NOT be a risk of pugging. at least not to this level of neglect, as i stated, i believe this is a fault of zos to address the allowance of it. because player will surely not do it on there own if there is no penalty.
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Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Howabout a rating system so players with consistent low ratings get tossed to the end of the RDF que whenever someone with higher ratings gets into que.
That'd put a quick end to bad dungeon behavior."
It'd also open up a pandoras box of abuse, players are going to get "rated" bad for reasons that has nothing to with bad dungeon behavior.
No, the only real solution that would benefit us all would be a dungeon finder with multiple custom filters. For example: quest completion filter. Signing up for this will only include other players that also signed for that and should ensure you are grouped with like minded people. Or how about a "speed run" filter? Again, selecting that would make sure you only a paired with others that also chose that. This would work; no one or only very few would deliberately sign up for such custom choices unless they actually wanted to do it. Some of the filters could be made mutually exclusive, cant chose both "speed run" AND "quest completion" for example.
Unfortunately I fear that designing and implementing such a system would be above the abilities of zos. Im merely saying this in the light of the improvements and changes we have seen over the years.Edited by Jayman1000 on July 25, 2019 2:20AM7 -
Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭It could be worse, every dungeon I did today started with fake tanks. People have no shame. I’m tired of having to kick people that just cut in line.1 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭That is what happens when you pug. Beggars cant be choosers. If you dont have friends or guildies to run dungeons with, then you either solo it or suck up to whatever you get
Other people in the dungeon are not obliged to do whatever you want, some people just want the fast keys and transmutes therefore they will zip past all ads and only kill required bosses
It's not cool when people troll or not allow you turn in quests or people queuing for the wrong roles, but that's the dungeon finder1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I do weekly skill point and exp farming runs with my guild, 1 high level player carries a few lower levels or alts through a series of walk ins (no queues) so everyone gets their quest and skill point rewards regardless of skill, or ability —maybe look for a guild that does something similar; also, if you say at the start that you have quest, at least one person will normally stick around. Just don’t expect a random pledge group to play by your requirements.Edited by mairwen85 on July 25, 2019 5:59AM0 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭Impressive how many thus fatpr havr missed OP's point entirely. Even more impressive is it that they whine about OP wanting others to play on their terms while demanding they play the game in a specofoc wa.
The logical disconnect of gamers never cease to amaze.0 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭that is the main point playing PUGs - random stuff is always random. Sometimes you get awful team who don't know how to HM vBC2. And sometimes you get players who breeze through vMHK HM (got such PUG 2 times).
Thats why i hate static groups - always same faceroll sht everyday. Booooriiiiing.1 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭five pieces of heavy armor automatically qualifies you to queue for a tank role in any and all dungeon content...
as long as you have vigor - you can be the healer all you want...
just so you know, the bow is an absolute for any and all bold enough to be a true dungeon damage dealer...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Zalicius✭✭✭No way. There should definitely not be a rating system based on other players. That would get badly abused. If anything there could be a system in game scoring the players then automatically pairing similar scoring players.2 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am not in favour of any action which dilutes and splits the player base in pug queue... this would increase queue times hugely, when at times they are often long as it is.
The answer is to stop kicking people out of the dungeon instance, once more than 2 people leave of the group leader disbands the party... This would allow anyone who needs to hand quests in, to do so. Simply increase the timer at the end for removal, make this a few mins, not 30 seconds. (Note to folk who may be unaware, NEVER disband the group, if you are the group leader, don't be a dik).
As for the speed run phenomenon, I've seen it from both sides. I remember seeing high CP players race off ahead, completely ruining any enjoyment of the dungeon not to mention meaning no boss gear drops! I have also, now I am high CP myself, needed to run a dungeon ASAP for the keys/boss gear drops... the difference being, I wait at each boss or major add pull for my team... its just being considerate.
I am not sure there is any answer to folk being inconsiderate of others needs and enjoyment, A' holes exist and therefore also exist in ESO - But splitting the player base, increasing queue times, is not the answer.0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Been saying it for awhile, an ESO version of GW2 lfg system. GW2 has the best lfg system I have ever seen/played.
I agree. For me the big benefits of GW2's system are:
1) Free text box which enables everyone to advertise using whatever criteria they want, rather than the developers having to predict what players might want and set up a whole set of check boxes and filters which probably still won't be right for everyone.
(And yes people might ignore your criteria and join anyway, but we already get that with DPS queuing as tanks or healers because it's faster and we'd get the same with whatever check boxes they might add. Unless they add tests first - like you have to answer a question about the boss mechanics to join a group asking for experienced members, and then you run into the problem of completely defeating the point of having check boxes for people who want quick runs with experienced people.)
2) Players choose which group to join. If there's 10 people looking and 5 of them want a slow run listening to quest dialogue and 5 want a quick run to get the daily reward they can sort themselves into appropriate groups instead of getting jumbled together and everyone ending up unhappy.
The downside is that for that to happen it can't be automated. You can't just join a queue and wait to be dropped into a group, you have to keep the window open to watch for a suitable advert (or set one up and then wait for people to join) which would be really annoying in ESO because the menus are huge and close if you move or do anything else, but I'm sure the developers are more than capable of finding a way around that given all the different tech and options they've already created.
And it could always be offered alongside our current system - so you can choose a random group - the system we have now - or select a group and then you choose one from the list or create your own group advert for other people to join.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"0 -
StormChaser3000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Go with a guildmates or.... there is a button for sprint you know. 810s who farm gear also don't want to waste time.0 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StormChaser3000 wrote: »Go with a guildmates or.... there is a button for sprint you know. 810s who farm gear also don't want to waste time.
Yeah. That said concerning the point[...] leaveing no loot for the guys that could actually use it.
810+ don't farm a dungeon over and over for the lulz.
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
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Well then all the more reason to do a little something.
This is EXACTLY my point. This should NOT be a risk of pugging. at least not to this level of neglect, as i stated, i believe this is a fault of zos to address the allowance of it. because player will surely not do it on there own if there is no penalty.
Random groups give random outcomes. If you want predictable group behavior form a group on your own. It’s not for you to decide how three other people are supposed to play.
The only part of your rant I agree with is that dungeons shouldn’t remove people from the instance for disbanding if the instance has been completed. But I’d also ask what what you’ve done to address this socially. Do you explain to your group that you are doing the quest?
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche2 -
sudaki_eso✭✭✭✭✭If i am leveling a toon and get thrown in a dungeon with all max CP's i simply use the chat to tell the group that i am here for the quest and skill point. 99% of the time when doing this the group will wait and dont pull half of the dungeon. So, tell your group that it would be nice not to rush though because you are doing the quest.
But i agree that there should be more options for this, happend to me quite a lot on my first char that the group disbanded before i could hand in the quest (should have told them
) PS4 EU - StamDK2 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Leave the group and forget about them. This is harsh advice for a DD, with the que they have, but about 10-15 minutes in you know if it's worth it. Easier to deal as tank or healer with a new que also.Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
es4eva✭✭✭
Well then all the more reason to do a little something.
This is EXACTLY my point. This should NOT be a risk of pugging. at least not to this level of neglect, as i stated, i believe this is a fault of zos to address the allowance of it. because player will surely not do it on there own if there is no penalty.
Why not? Why does everything have to be so easy? There is an easy enough workaround. There are far bigger issues to complain about and fix.0 -
msalvia✭✭✭✭This has been said tons of times before, but the only solution to this RANDOM queue is to queue with people you know. There are so, so many new player guilds you can join to play with people of your skill level/gaming expectation.
Also, let's clear a few things up:
Moving through a dungeon quickly is not "bad behavior." You may not like it , but some people are just levelling; some are using timed xp scrolls; some are just working at the pace that they usually work. You can ask people to slow down, or explain you're new and can use some tips. Most groups are gonna be cool with that, but NONE will if they don't know these things.
Similar fix for the quest issue; just tell your group you need the quest and ask them to wait a sec. At least one of the three will do that IF YOU ASK.
Finally, getting speed run through a dungeon still earns you loot. Not sure why you're upset about that aspect of this...all players get loot from bosses/chests in group dungeons.
In any event, this is a problem that only you yourself can fix...either communicate with your random pug members, or queue with at least 1 person from your guilds, ideally a new player. I can't think of any system that can pair you only with low-level players who are on their first character and who expect to slow-roll a dungeon.2 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭We don't need another rating system because we already have one ---> the ignore list.
The more people agree that someone is a toxic player they'd rather not associate with, the more that toxic player is affected. I've asked around in all my guilds and while not advertised, it seems a function of ignore list that the game will NOT match you for future dungeon finder groups with anyone on your list, or vice versa.
No one has ever confirmed to me that they've been randomly re-matched with someone on their ignore list, so it appears ZoS has existing logic that dungeon finder excludes matching ppl together if on ignore. Which makes sense.
So think through the logical conclusion - if you ignore a tank because you think they super rush and are terrible, but no one else does, then this person is not really affected. But if a lot of ppl agree with you, then that person has their queue times get longer and longer the more ppl add them to their ignore list.
Basically, ignore is your rating system - the more ppl agree with you and ignore that person, the more that person's 'rating' is affected. *** off enough people and it's conceivable even in-demand roles like healer/tanks will have significant time added to their dungeon finder queue.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we get some flags on dungeons to require boss completion. And something to ensure people can turn in their quests before the party rapidly disbands?
Maybe just completely remove the kicked from dungeon mechanic.
I mean seriously puging in RDF is obnoxious AF when you get 810s that run through and leave a trail of adds for the lower levels to struggle with while they solo the bosses leaveing no loot for the guys that could actually use it.
Why is it years later of this behavior and it has not been addressed by ZOS.
I find that negligent. There should be some sort of demand to allow players to run a dungeon as intended.
Sure i can just walk in and solo the dungeons... but really? this behavior needs to be tolerated?
And what about new players that normal dungeons are still difficult and dudes are allowed to do this?
Howabout a rating system so players with consistent low ratings get tossed to the end of the RDF que whenever someone with higher ratings gets into que.
That'd put a quick end to bad dungeon behavior.
At the end of the dungeon rate each player thumbs up or thumbs down (ACCOUNT WIDE) . make it required... yes people will troll and thumbs down everyone but that wont matter with consistent dungeon running the majority of players will follow the premise as they do not want to be "in the bad" So they are not penalized in the queue process. After a large amount of dungeons regardless of thumbs down trolls a very clear rating will form and those players that are just horrible to run dungeons with will be identified. allowing penalties to be fairly distributed.
Maybe something even better than this system ^... But something of the like to correct the having to deal with the intolerable.... My ignore list is getting WAY TOO LONG so dont say just put em on ignore... its not working. they keep coming...
Flame or Support. Go.
The rating system would likely be a flop. It's more likely players who don't speed run would more often than not get the thumbs down.
The best solution I've seen to this is give players two options when choosing to queue up for a dungeon. 1 for a more traditional approach - the other which allows for speed runs and unconfirmed role compositions. That way high level characters who are just looking for a quick speed run can choose this option without ruining the experience for others.Edited by Jeremy on July 26, 2019 2:17AM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We don't need another rating system because we already have one ---> the ignore list.
The more people agree that someone is a toxic player they'd rather not associate with, the more that toxic player is affected. I've asked around in all my guilds and while not advertised, it seems a function of ignore list that the game will NOT match you for future dungeon finder groups with anyone on your list, or vice versa.
No one has ever confirmed to me that they've been randomly re-matched with someone on their ignore list, so it appears ZoS has existing logic that dungeon finder excludes matching ppl together if on ignore. Which makes sense.
So think through the logical conclusion - if you ignore a tank because you think they super rush and are terrible, but no one else does, then this person is not really affected. But if a lot of ppl agree with you, then that person has their queue times get longer and longer the more ppl add them to their ignore list.
Basically, ignore is your rating system - the more ppl agree with you and ignore that person, the more that person's 'rating' is affected. *** off enough people and it's conceivable even in-demand roles like healer/tanks will have significant time added to their dungeon finder queue.
That is not how ignore works. And the tank in your example will be barely affected because there is that much of a lack of tanks in group finder.
Group finder gives you a group. Want anything extra? Make your own group.
Edited by Royaji on July 26, 2019 2:17AM0 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭
That is not how ignore works. And the tank in your example will be barely affected because there is that much of a lack of tanks in group finder.
Group finder gives you a group. Want anything extra? Make your own group.
Really? Well I'll take your word for it, but it's certainly not been my experience nor anyone I know. I've asked TGs and PVE guilds, both with near max 500 members, and personally tested as well.
No one I know has ever, not once, been matched with anyone they've ignored. Sounds like you are saying this is not true - ok, again not about to call you a liar....but I will say this doesn't match the observed behavior.
Ever done a random and get matched with group part way done, they give you polite vote kick so you can leave with no time penalty, and you re-queue as an in demand role like healer or tank and get instantly matched back again with that same group who is queued looking for replacement?
Just temporarily ignore someone in that group - you wont ever be rematched. After you get the group you want, just un-ignore. I've also tested with healer + tank, or tank + healer friends, we ignore each other and never get matched even on off hours. TLDR - still not calling you a liar, if you say you see different, fine. But doesn't change my tested observation that for everyone in my social circles, ignore = guarantee no match in random finder.
And a tank or healer will be less affected but you're ignoring the overall impact of many ignores. It's true if only a few ignore you a tank will barely be affected. But if hundreds of daily players all add you to their list because that tank is just that toxic a person even if they are a great tank? Yes, they will be affected. How much is totally proportional to how much they impact the community.
Edited by Jacozilla on July 26, 2019 2:55AM0