Would it be worthwile to overhaul some of the old motifs?

Nemesis7884

Comparing older and newer motifs is like night and day - i noticed this when for example comparing the akavir motif with the newer honor guard motif of similar style.
Level of detail is one minor issue but the major difference is the level of "flatness" vs 3 dimensional structure...

Old motifs such as Akaviri are very flat - they basically look like the armor is painted onto the body whereas new motifs such as honor guard look like real layers of armor on top of each other and on top of the body - it just looks so much better, more realistic, believable and just way better.

The difference is really apparent if you for example compare these two motifs...

I think it could be worthwile - before releasing new motifs to bring some of the old "flat" motifs onto this new quality level?

I could post picture to show the difference but i think you dont see it as well on pics as you do in game in a 3d environment...

therift

Nope.

It's a better use of art and coder time to introduce new motifs. New motifs refresh gameplay in older content, spark trading and grouping activity, and provide additional revenue.

After the Light Redguard Chest overhaul debacle, ZoS adopted a policy of not revising old art assets to avoid further problems.

Donny_Vito

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Comparing older and newer motifs is like night and day - i noticed this when for example comparing the akavir motif with the newer honor guard motif of similar style.
Level of detail is one minor issue but the major difference is the level of "flatness" vs 3 dimensional structure...

Old motifs such as Akaviri are very flat - they basically look like the armor is painted onto the body whereas new motifs such as honor guard look like real layers of armor on top of each other and on top of the body - it just looks so much better, more realistic, believable and just way better.

The difference is really apparent if you for example compare these two motifs...

I think it could be worthwile - before releasing new motifs to bring some of the old "flat" motifs onto this new quality level?

I could post picture to show the difference but i think you dont see it as well on pics as you do in game in a 3d environment...

I think our definition of worthwhile might differentiate from ZoS's definition. In order to revamp old motifs, that'd require designer and potentially development time from them, but where is the payout? I guess they could potentially re-sell the new designs in the Crown Store, but this might frustrate people because they'd feel like they are being forced into buying a new motif when they already bought the original. Or if they were just going to update the original design without any Crown Store addition, then that would definitely not be worthwhile for them because it wouldn't generate any revenue for the work.

ArchMikem

I want styles that show more skin. Or in my case, fur.

MehrunesFlagon

They could remove all hip and crotch flaps from them, as well as make every shoulder piece invisible.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

There are definitely some glaring issues with some of the older (and frankly some of the newer) motifs that should be addressed. That said, it will never happen. They will just make new ones because they bring in revenue.

bluebird

Revamp old motifs by changing them? No.
Add new motifs that are similar in style but are more detailed with better textures? Yes.

Comparing Altmer hoods to Pyandonean hoods is a joke for example
Altmer: 'Ooh, look at us, we're the most magical and elegant race, obsessed with our heritage and superiority!'
*Dresses in rougly stitched rags*

Maormer: 'Psh, absolutely barbaric!'
*Rolls eyes and flicks back a satiny smooth hood*

It would be nice if older racial motifs got the same attention and detail that newer styles get, so I'd be all for releasing a set of 'Racial 2.0' motifs that are very similar to the old ones. Perhaps they could also finally add the unreleased Racial style Tier 5 weapons!

blueThunder24

therift wrote: »

Nope.

It's a better use of art and coder time to introduce new motifs. New motifs refresh gameplay in older content, spark trading and grouping activity, and provide additional revenue.

After the Light Redguard Chest overhaul debacle, ZoS adopted a policy of not revising old art assets to avoid further problems.

Not providing revenue is a poor argument.
I play another really free to play MMO game and developers update old skin textures time to time even if they do not get any money from players for that.
Or it seems that way.
You forgot about new players, fashion is sometimes called a true end game - and this is true as some free to play games live by selling skins only.
If new players will start with ugly basic motifs they may be less encouraged to delve deeper into game fashion.
Also you forgot that all basic motifs are actually for sale in crown store: 500 for basic allance, 5000 for dwemer, 5000 for rare motifs.

I think that for devs polishing all fashion related things should be one of the priorities.


BTW. What happened with Light Redguard Chest you're talking about?

Donny_Vito

bluebird wrote: »

Revamp old motifs by changing them? No.
Add new motifs that are similar in style but are more detailed with better textures? Yes.

Comparing Altmer hoods to Pyandonean hoods is a joke for example
Altmer: 'Ooh, look at us, we're the most magical and elegant race, obsessed with our heritage and superiority!'
*Dresses in rougly stitched rags*

Maormer: 'Psh, absolutely barbaric!'
*Rolls eyes and flicks back a satiny smooth hood*

It would be nice if older racial motifs got the same attention and detail that newer styles get, so I'd be all for releasing a set of 'Racial 2.0' motifs that are very similar to the old ones. Perhaps they could also finally add the unreleased Racial style Tier 5 weapons!

I always found it weird that the ESO Fashion website had chicks in underwear when displaying weapons. I understand you want the focus to be on the weapon and not the potential outfit they are wearing, but it just feels a little odd.

bluebird

blueThunder24 wrote: »

BTW. What happened with Light Redguard Chest you're talking about?

Basically, ZOS changed the vanilla Orc and Redguard racial armor in an update, to be more functional and less like eye-candy. People revolted because they wanted their old skimpy style back. Obviously I think that the changes were for the better, since no Orc racial armor should ever have a boobwindow, but people were quite attached to those looks. So that's why ZOS is afraid of changing things now, and which is why I would support adding new racial motifs rather than replacing the old ones.

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I always found it weird that the ESO Fashion website had chicks in underwear when displaying weapons. I understand you want the focus to be on the weapon and not the potential outfit they are wearing, but it just feels a little odd.

I like that they're shown on a naked character, it allows us to see more details on the item itself without anything else interfering. The site also uses a male Bosmer, female Khajiit and male Argonian, so it's not just naked chick models.

blnchk

Goodness, that Orcish boob window looked embarrassing. I so wish some of the newer styles wouldn't have them. Apparently, old habits die hard.

emilyhyoyeon

At the very least I think updating simply the textures on the old racial motifs (and other old motifs I guess) is reasonable and won't change the actual looks of the motifs.

kargen27

Changing the old styles would be a mistake because out there somewhere is a whole herd of people that would claim it ruined the game for them because their character doesn't look like it is suppose to look. They would then want some kind of compensation.
Offering revised motifs while leaving the old ones available in game would be the way to go.

I would like to see battle worn motifs of some of the styles. Dented, ripped and stained like you have been out and about slaying hordes of evil doers.

Morgha_Kul

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Comparing older and newer motifs is like night and day - i noticed this when for example comparing the akavir motif with the newer honor guard motif of similar style.
Level of detail is one minor issue but the major difference is the level of "flatness" vs 3 dimensional structure...

Old motifs such as Akaviri are very flat - they basically look like the armor is painted onto the body whereas new motifs such as honor guard look like real layers of armor on top of each other and on top of the body - it just looks so much better, more realistic, believable and just way better.

The difference is really apparent if you for example compare these two motifs...

I think it could be worthwile - before releasing new motifs to bring some of the old "flat" motifs onto this new quality level?

I could post picture to show the difference but i think you dont see it as well on pics as you do in game in a 3d environment...

I'm inclined to agree. I still like many of the older motifs, but lament how flat and old they look compared to the newer ones. I can't imagine it would take a lot, and they DO seem to have pride in the look of the game.

Nemesis7884

with overhauling old styles i do not mean chabging their style but simply bringing them on paar with recent styles in terms of visual fidelity with regards to texture quality, details and 3d structure/layering quality

NotaDaedraWorshipper

bluebird wrote: »

blueThunder24 wrote: »

BTW. What happened with Light Redguard Chest you're talking about?

Basically, ZOS changed the vanilla Orc and Redguard racial armor in an update, to be more functional and less like eye-candy. People revolted because they wanted their old skimpy style back. Obviously I think that the changes were for the better, since no Orc racial armor should ever have a boobwindow, but people were quite attached to those looks. So that's why ZOS is afraid of changing things now, and which is why I would support adding new racial motifs rather than replacing the old ones.

The change to the orc armour was good, because that it had a boobwindow in the first place was ridiculous. But the change to the redguard was utter sacrilege!

bluebird wrote: »

Revamp old motifs by changing them? No.
Add new motifs that are similar in style but are more detailed with better textures? Yes.

I'd say yes to this, with the addition that they remove those horrible hip and crotch flaps.

blueThunder24

bluebird wrote: »

blueThunder24 wrote: »

BTW. What happened with Light Redguard Chest you're talking about?

Basically, ZOS changed the vanilla Orc and Redguard racial armor in an update, to be more functional and less like eye-candy. People revolted because they wanted their old skimpy style back. Obviously I think that the changes were for the better, since no Orc racial armor should ever have a boobwindow, but people were quite attached to those looks. So that's why ZOS is afraid of changing things now, and which is why I would support adding new racial motifs rather than replacing the old ones.
[

Really? There they could implement a simple solution, just keep the old look as legacy outfit skin available for free for all players back then and eventually as unlockable from achievment for new players if people will say that it is not fair.


I still think that ZOS needs to update all old motifs, but as others said they could at least by refreshing textures. Take a look at the breton heavy armor - for my eye it is the most detailed and polished from all basic styles. When you compare it to others it is simply unfair for pact players as they start with the most ugly (crappy quality) armors in my opinion.
Releasing new refreshed racial motifs as separate would outrage people too as for sure it would be paid content. Accaptable are new racial motifs like elder argonian, ancient orcs, etc. as they are different enough. But here we need to think of new players who do not have access to new styles yet and on overall asthetics of the game.
But still why cannot I enjoy hard e.g. earned by grind dwemer or akaviry armors as they looks just so bad that it would be shame to dress my toons with them?

Delpi

Yep for this. I have the fur nordic medium armor for one of my characters and it's so low quality that it's a shame. But there aren't any more options for fur leather armor so...

therift

blueThunder24 wrote: »

But still why cannot I enjoy hard e.g. earned by grind dwemer or akaviry armors as they looks just so bad that it would be shame to dress my toons with them?

Akaviri is one of my favorite styles. So, I'm one account which would oppose lobbying ZoS to touch it.

logarifmik

Old content definitely needs a facelift, but they have some stupid art politics regarding such changes. Even really bad things like weird looking horses or absolutely disgusting Nocturnal design will most likely stay like it was released.

Besides, one can't sell such a thing, and we are all well aware of how touchy about profit ZOS is. So, yes, I'd welcome such changes, but now, we'll most likely never see them.

Danikat

therift wrote: »

blueThunder24 wrote: »

But still why cannot I enjoy hard e.g. earned by grind dwemer or akaviry armors as they looks just so bad that it would be shame to dress my toons with them?

Akaviri is one of my favorite styles. So, I'm one account which would oppose lobbying ZoS to touch it.

Same here. I understand what the OP and others mean, but I really like some of the older motifs, especially Akaviri, and I'm worried about what ZOS would do if they changed it. I know all that's been proposed is 'updating' the textures and no changes to the actual design, but even then it could change how it dyes or the way it moves when you're running and it would bother me.

For example one reason I use the Akaviri medium chest on my khajiit is I wanted her armour to be fairly form-fitting. She spends a lot of time sneaking and would not want bulky armour that could get in the way or get caught on stuff, but also wanted something ornate. "Fixing" it so it looks less 'painted on' and more like there's multiple layers could easily ruin that for me and make it look too bulky and awkward. (And as an added complication this isn't an outfit, it's her actual armour which I carefully chose so I liked the look and could use it as an additional 'outfit' - so not something which can be easily changed.)

So I'd much prefer them to add new motifts, even ones which are very similar to the existing ones, over changing the existing ones.

max_only

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

with overhauling old styles i do not mean chabging their style but simply bringing them on paar with recent styles in terms of visual fidelity with regards to texture quality, details and 3d structure/layering quality

A contrast change in bump and/or specular map so they are more “3D” and less “painted on” would be nice. It’s a lot of work though.

I’m more concerned that their new armor doesn’t dye the same as their old armor. Try dyeing everything the same blue and the new stuff comes out so bright.

bmnoble

You ever think that some people like the old motifs and use parts of them in their outfits.

Release new motifs by all means but don't go assuming everyone dislike the old styles as they are.

Grandma

not visually, like the texture or theme, but i think a lot of motifs could be better designed to coincide with each other. For example, Elder Argonian heavy shoulder clips through about 80% of chest pieces I try to use with it.

Facefister

therift wrote: »

Nope.

It's a better use of art and coder time to introduce new motifs. New motifs refresh gameplay in older content, spark trading and grouping activity, and provide additional revenue.

After the Light Redguard Chest overhaul debacle, ZoS adopted a policy of not revising old art assets to avoid further problems.

ZoS sells QoL bandaids on the store, I wouldn't be suprised if they would sell those too like "Alliances Motifs: Reviewed by your Master Smith/Clothier" - Pack or individual per race.

MrGhosty

I would love a rework to the base armors, largely because after being gone for many years I'm broke and wearing old and busted gear watching people run around with beautifully sculpted armors. Saying that, I also understand how some people might be attached to the old styles, so what they could do is do a base races 2.0 and remove the chance for those old motifs to drop in the world and replace them with the 2.0 version. That would give people more options and might even make those base motifs worth something again.

To be clear, I think they should continue to just drop as a full book as opposed to the pages that motifs drop commonly in now but I wouldn't have any issue with zos offering people a way to bypass the grind for these new books by offering them as a pack on the crown store as well.

Something else that I would love to see would be new armor sets and/or style pages that work like variations. The perfect example would be to make the old orc and redguard chest pieces available as style pages.

barney2525

Just overhaul the ugly ones ..


Would like to see the materials overhauled so when they are dyed, they have more vibrant color to them.