Make dk heal great

danara

Why do you think about giving ash cloud (not sure about the name) same size of grand healing and giving a synergie that give ally a damage shield ?

And why not give the shield that give major mending extended a magicka scale ? Maybe that change with the first one is to op but it could be scale to allow dk to Grant à 4k or 5k damage shield

I think this could allow more healer diversity and give the opportunity to have a dk healer viable in raid in order to make them competitive with templar ? I love this idea, what about you guys ?

Seraphayel

major le ding

danara

Seraphayel wrote: »

major le ding

Sorry im not english so the auto correct can be tricky 😂

Seraphayel

danara wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

major le ding

Sorry im not english so the auto correct can be tricky 😂

Never mind I totally agree as DK healer is my guilty pleasure. Major le ding (Major Mending) just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

redspecter23

I would definitely like to see DK get some sort of class synergy that isn't tied to trash pulls (talons). Most classes seem to have it on their ground dots so it would be interesting to see it added to the same ability on DK which happens to be a heal.

Just in general, I think all classes should have enough healing options to be competitive and right now templar seems to be blowing the others away for a few specific mostly mechanical reasons.

danara

@redspecter23 totally agree with you

Would love to see a daedric mine morph that can heal when it hit the ally or grant them a sort of unique buff...

Or even a lightning splash rework ? In order to get a heal morph comparable with cleansing ritual from templar...

There is so much possibilities with unused spell from class... Really want to see this happend and get out of the 100% templar healer méta...

Veles

They wont do this, and maybe it is good ideas. But look at DK. They are strong dd in right hands, more like stamina, but also like mana. DK are the strongest tanks, initially presented as a profile class for this role. They are rly good healers even without ur idea about ash cloud. And now u want burst them heal and give them synergy shield? Cmon,.. good ideas, but infeasible at this time.

And dont forget about PvP. Zos nerfing them few years, coz people dominate on DK. All that awaits DK in this game are nerfs, nerfs and once again nerfs. They will never be allowed to be stronger than they are now.

danara

@Veles
And ? What dd and tanking has to do with healer ? I agree on the fact they are strong stamina dd in pvp, not magicka they are very bad and hard to play compare to other magicka class (except warden lul).

Then nerf their tanking and dps ? You think they have enough heal ? Right know yes, but that s all, a good healer is not Just about make you allies stay alive

It is about providing :

- different synnergie (how many did they have for healer ? Dont say orb every have this) : 0
- providing some buff (ok on that point, they got the minor sorcery for stam, cant remember the name)
- providing some debuff (how many do you have ? Hello Power of the Light from templar ! Everyone can have punction)

But what about the future change ? With the nerf of healing springs / orbs, and no change with their healing kit (to be honnest i dont remember if they change something but i dont think)

So Right Now, in my opinion, they are not good healer as you said, they are Just healer, but not in a competitive way.

What i want to see, is them can provide enough heal with the change, can have access to a unique buff/debuff and provide New synnergie in order to make them competitive...

If they were so strong, dont you think we would have seen them more often ? Except me i never saw any dk healer, even in pvp

Austinseph1

I mean considering the cost of both morphs is over 5k mag it should have some extra functionality, I mean the slow is... cool I guess? In PvE I use it to slow down zombies sometimes but a 5 meter radius isn’t exactly amazing for the cost. I would honestly prefer a lower duration for a lower cost because the actual amount of times you get to use the full 18 seconds is iffy at best even in boss fights. It isn’t as great in practice as it is on paper.

danara

@Austinseph1 i agree

So A healing spell with a 70% slow on a tiny zone ?

Remove the slow OR increase the radius + nerf the 70% slow to 30% slow at least it will be usable in pvp

Right know if we compare this spell to the templar ritual... Better heal for dk but
- Dont have synergie
- Radius too small
- Better slow but completely useless with the current radius
- 0 damage if compare to the ritual of retribution (And yes i play with morph on my main which is a templar, cant explain why but i have like 300 hps more with this morph than with extended ritual)

danara

Nobody can give somz thought on this subject ? Does n one feel concern with the healers lack of diversity ?

Synnastix

When you’re hands down the best tank class in the game you don’t need to be a great healer too.

There is a reason for classes, and they have pros and cons to each. Every class *can* do every role, but it shouldn’t be easy for all classes to do all things. This is why stuff keeps getting watered down and instead of having class specific skills, the devs are moving to skill categories instead.

This whole “every class needs a dps spammable, a ground AoE, a DoT, a group heal, etc. etc” is what’s causing classes to lose their identity in the first place. I say let classes be classes, good at some things and bad at others.

Otherwise make all class skills available to all characters so we can truly “play as we want”. The way things are going just about the only difference between classes left is going to be the “type” of damage you do (fire, shock, magic, etc).

Half the community wants homogenization, the other half wants classes to feel unique. Do you all see why ZoS is doing what they’re doing?

danara

@Synnastix this is your opinion, but with 3 rôles 6 classe it means that if every class are good at something then you will only see 6 class in pve competitve endgame.

2 dk tanks (cause they ll remain the Best tank after the patch if they dont nerf them)
8 dd with the same stuff, the same CP, the same class...
2 templar healer (they are already by far the Best healer, and with the pts, they Il be even better than the others)

What i want is : "when someone say can i come with my character ? " you can say yes, because he will be competitve with his class no matter if he is tank, dd or healer.

So according to you it is a normal things Right Now to have 2 dk tanks, 8 dd necro stam, and 2 templar ? Because i guess it is also normal to have the Best dps Who can do 109k, but with the worst dps it is also hard to get 80k?

30k différence is not what i call a balance...

Synnastix

I kind of like that you’re talking about 109k dps and I’m a guy that gets 15k on a good day.

The point I was making in a “class-based” system is the classes should have a purpose: they should be good at some things and not good at others. Based on the decisions devs have made, there’s a sense that classes are being homogenized so that it’s the skills that differentiate roles, and not classes. In some of the comments you can see where they refer to skills categorically, like saying a skill is a “spammable” and they change skills of one class to “be more in line” with the “spammables” from other classes. I dislike the idea in general that each class should have a "spammable" skill, because what that's saying is we want each class to have the same functionality as every other class.

At that stage, what's the point of classes? If they all are functionally equivalent, why choose one over another? With other skills, like weapon skills, any character can use any skill. If we're truly going to "play the way we want", why shouldn't we have the same freedom to choose among the "class" skills?

Going by your examples, and I am commenting out of ignorance because I'm not in a bleeding edge guild, if I were going to "design" an optimal group for endgame? I absolutely would use that formula. Why would I do anything other than the best tanks? Why wouldn't I take 109k dps over 80k? And why wouldn't I take the best healers possible? What I'm actually surprised we haven't seen yet, and kudos to the devs for this part, is introducing mechanics to force players to take specific classes into trials to succeed. Imagine if you HAD to take to take a magcro because a specific boss required it?

The answer to why we have diversity is the fun factor. Diversity and doing things differently is what makes the game entertaining. It's exactly why 0 of my builds are meta. It also means they're not going to be competitive with equally skilled players running optimal builds / classes, and that's totally ok. I've tanked on every class and will be the first to say that for the most part you CAN do it on every class, but it's definitely easier on some than others. It's also easier with the "right" gear, skills, CP, and other key things, and that IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. It should be easier for some than others, exactly why it's easier for some CLASSES to tank than others, to heal than others, or to DPS.

Overall my point is that we, as a community, need to decide if we want diversity or equality. I don't believe it's realistic to expect both unless we start seeing trials and dungeons that can be completed by a group of soloists instead of requiring a tank + heals + dps.

MisterBigglesworth

@Synnastix @danara

Different classes should all be differentiated from each other more, but there is still a way to avoid ONLY ONE CORRECT ANSWER for a Trial group composition. For example, a DK tank should be the best tank for 1 specific boss in a trial, but a Sorc tank should be the best tank for a different boss in that trial.

This would NOT mean that a Sorc tank is an absolute requirement, it's just to make it easier.

In addition to this, there should be different options on the table for each boss to make it hard to say with certainty: "here is the 100% totally correct strategy"

For example, a phase of a fight where the tank has to separate from the rest of the group and needs to move quickly across a great distance, stunning mobs along the way, (a Sorc would be handy here) but if they don't move quickly enough they will get a debuff that slows them down and now they (as a DK tank) will instead just have to mitigate a bunch of incoming projectiles... or if they can't do either of these then they could, (as a Templar tank), purge themselves of the slowness debuff, and handle the fight that way.

That's what I would like to see: the process of discovery among the playerbase: hey we've all been doing this fight a certain way, but it turns out if you bring a Nightblade healer it makes phases 1 and 3 harder, but phase 2 (where our group has been having the most trouble) becomes much easier. That's why it's disheartening to see the classes getting watered down, homogenized, rather than each one bringing its own unique toolkit.

Synnastix

Totally agree, and that’s part of what I see as a problem. Instead of getting more creative with encounters (not making specific classes requirements mind you), we’re in a phase of making all classes able to do the same things. But I still contend that you need to have that generic identity for classes, otherwise there’s no point to having a class system.

A benefit is that it makes the skill level different and as I said, we’re already in a state where all classes CAN do any role, but some make it easier. I tank on a DK and heal on a templar because it’s easier. If I’m up for more challenge I’d take my sorc to tank or warden to heal, but when it comes to the harder content I want the class most suited for that role. If were all easy then it would get boring, but if it were all hard it wouldn’t be fun.

danara

@MisterBigglesworth that s à fait point, and they could work on that, but Right Now... Dk tank > all taank, and templar heal > warden heal > all heal...

But with the patch note, if they dont change anything about healer we will have something like : templar healer >>> warden healer >>>>>> all healer

And this will happend in any case... But it would be so great to have something similar to what you de scribe, but i dont know if it is possible

@Synnastix
It is not that heal on a templar is easier, healing power on dk > healing power on templar, but you dont need that extra healing power (at least Now), but the problem is, templar has access to a better magicka sustain, unique buff, unique debuff that dk doesnt have, and that why the templar is way stronger than the DK in terms of healer