Why do Stam build have more DPS than mag?

gamerguy757

So a little curious.
As we know the Stamina classes always seem to have higher DPS numbers than that of Magicka. I mean StamCro is highest right now while MagCro is lowest. But why? What makes the stamina toons so much stronger?

Micah_Bayer

Because you have to be in melee range while magicka can sit back away from danger. It's trade offs. More survivability for mag, and more dmg for stam.

Sanguinor2

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Because you have to be in melee range while magicka can sit back away from danger. It's trade offs. More survivability for mag, and more dmg for stam.

Magdk still waiting for that famous melee dps Advantages, Maybe in 2025 they will be recognized as melee dps?
Also in good Groups everyone stands melee anyway unless its asylum or cloudrest so no ranged Advantage there.
Its simply down to game balance, Long in the past mag builds had higher dps than stam.

templesus

Magplar > Stamplar, your post is incorrect in assuming all stam is better then the mag counterpart.

rotaugen454

It’s a pendulum that swings back and forth over time.

zvavi

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Because you have to be in melee range while magicka can sit back away from danger. It's trade offs. More survivability for mag, and more dmg for stam.

Trials where you stack said hi. Bow bow builds said hi. Resistances said hi. When i want more survivability, i take my stam toon. "Can sit back away from danger" any content that you can sit back to avoid it, it aint danger.

Because currently stamina is stronger. Meta happens. Also with the new patch magcros will be back.

Nemesis7884

range and magicka skills usually habe also more utility....

Czekoludek

If magicka could deal the same dps as stamina bow, nobody would argue that stams melee should deal a little more dps. I mean, okay, let's them deal more dps but 10-15k difference is definietely too much

Seraphayel

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Because you have to be in melee range while magicka can sit back away from danger. It's trade offs. More survivability for mag, and more dmg for stam.

This just isn’t true anymore.

- Magicka DPS is often enough stacked together with the other members therefore their range is no advantage in a lot of fights.

- MagDK is a melee Magicka spec and is parsing absolutely horrible.

- Stamina is overperforming most Magicka specs by 20% or more which is nowhere near an acceptable trade off for their melee range

- Stamina has more ways to build, more weapon choices and overall better performing sets

- Easier access to more weapon damage than Magicka has for spell damage

- Having access to 3 + 1 execute abilities (with Poison Injection being buffed next patch to become even better out of execute range) whereas Magicka - outside of some classes - has access to ZERO execute abilities

And these are only the PvE aspects. In PvP range means nothing, melee Stamina builds there are overperforming as well because their survivability due to the massive Stamina pool is way higher. On top of that they can wear SnB because Vigor carries their self healing whereas many Magicka builds have to slot a Resto Staff which is fairly weak for DPS in PvP.

Seraphayel

rotaugen454 wrote: »

It’s a pendulum that swings back and forth over time.

The pendulum stands for more than 1.5 years on the Stamina side in PvP and PvE, when do you think it’s time to move back?

Itzmichi

Because we are living in the danger zone, while magicka in 90% of the case doesn't.

Sergykid

we don't want class homogenization but we want each class to deal the same dps

Carbonised

gamerguy757 wrote: »

What makes the stamina toons so much stronger?

Because ZOS has no frickin idea how to balance anything in this broken mess of a game.

SoLooney

If magicka dealt more damage than stamina dps, then there will be absolutely no reason to run stam dps

Lets not have a repeat of pre morrowind where stamina dps was non existant

Strider__Roshin

templesus wrote: »

Magplar > Stamplar, your post is incorrect in assuming all stam is better then the mag counterpart.

This shouldn't be the case.

WuffyCerulei

zvavi wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Because you have to be in melee range while magicka can sit back away from danger. It's trade offs. More survivability for mag, and more dmg for stam.

Trials where you stack said hi. Bow bow builds said hi. Resistances said hi. When i want more survivability, i take my stam toon. "Can sit back away from danger" any content that you can sit back to avoid it, it aint danger.

Because currently stamina is stronger. Meta happens. Also with the new patch magcros will be back.

Not every trial you can stack though. Or be in melee, unless you want to be yeeted by a one shot. And you rarely see bow/bow stamina dps, as melee dps is just too good for them. Resistances also don’t matter when the boss smacks dps for 100k+damage if the tank loses agro or the dps dumbly steps into their aoe.

TheUndeadAmulet

The game tends to swing between Elder Staves Online and Elder Stamina Online. About a year ago around Summerset being released, MagNB was the easily the best PvE DPS and I think it was MagSorc before that? It's only recently (relatively) that stamina has really taken hold of the PvE meta, although StamNB did compete (I think).

In reality though, both specs are good for any class (except for Magden and Magcro lol). Don't get caught up in Meta chasing unless you are in Hodor or something, although it would be nice for the gap to be smaller sometimes.

Czekoludek

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Because you have to be in melee range while magicka can sit back away from danger. It's trade offs. More survivability for mag, and more dmg for stam.

Trials where you stack said hi. Bow bow builds said hi. Resistances said hi. When i want more survivability, i take my stam toon. "Can sit back away from danger" any content that you can sit back to avoid it, it aint danger.

Because currently stamina is stronger. Meta happens. Also with the new patch magcros will be back.

Not every trial you can stack though. Or be in melee, unless you want to be yeeted by a one shot. And you rarely see bow/bow stamina dps, as melee dps is just too good for them. Resistances also don’t matter when the boss smacks dps for 100k+damage if the tank loses agro or the dps dumbly steps into their aoe.

For bow/bow IT is no longer true. In current state of the game it is better to take bow/bow for range mechanics then magicka

SaucyMcSauceface

It is because mag has penetration as a part of their passives, where stamina doesn't.

MartiniDaniels

Magicka dps future looks very grim:
1. 10-15% less dps then stamina version of same class (templar is only exception)
2. shields nerfed again, while selfish version of vigor is incredibly buffed (much higher heal, much cheaper cost)
3. new ransack on s&b is so much better then pierce armor, that tanks will assume that healers will distribute and keep up ele drain on everything. The higher number of adds in encounter, the higher change mobs will be w/o major breach
4. NB tank received a number of benefits over DK, and so they become more and more common, which often leaves boss without engulfing flames. Also even on DK engulfing flames can be replaced for additional group support skill if all dps in trial are stamina.

Conclusion - if adjustments won't be made until U23 goes live, it will be detrimental to have any magicka dps in the group, in majority of cases

Emma_Overload

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

It is because mag has penetration as a part of their passives, where stamina doesn't.

No. Just no. That doesn't even begin to justify the massive gap between stamina and magicka. What about the 15% cheaper stamina ability costs that have no justification in PvE (or PvP in my opinion)? Magicka has to make up those costs by reducing damage even further to build for extra sustain. What about the extra ~5K resistances that Medium armor enjoys over Light? Magicka builds have to account for our greater squishy-ness somehow, and that means less power or less room on our bars for damage abilities because we have to make room for shields or self-heals. The list goes on and on.

Royaji

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

It is because mag has penetration as a part of their passives, where stamina doesn't.

What about the 15% cheaper stamina ability costs that have no justification in PvE (or PvP in my opinion)?.

Ever heard about Minor Staminasteal? Me neither.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

It is because mag has penetration as a part of their passives, where stamina doesn't.

What about the extra ~5K resistances that Medium armor enjoys over Light? Magicka builds have to account for our greater squishy-ness somehow, and that means less power or less room on our bars for damage abilities because we have to make room for shields or self-heals.

Are we talking PvP or PvE here? In PvP medium armor is the worst choice for the last year and a bit or so. And saying that stamina (or anyone for that matter) does not need a self-heal for PvP is a bit laughable. PvE-wise 5k resistances make very little difference since you will get one shot anyway if you are not following the mechanics. And slotting (or not slotting) defensive abilities depends a lot more on the quality of your healer than anything else. It is also worth mentioning that for any kind of utility self-sufficent role (MoL backyard, HoF second boss upstairs, CR shadow realm) magicka DDs are preferred due to their better survivability.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

simple reason there is a bug with light attacks on staffs for some peeps they dont always go of, light attacks can get an extra 15- 30k

RusevCrush

Stam should always outperform mag or there's no reason to play it. For the last year or so I kept asking myself why am i playing stamnb when my magnb friends are shielded, at range, and dealing the same dps.

Urzigurumash

Well, Mag is "easier" to use, no? Easier to beat VMA, easier to solo dungeons, easier to solo world bosses. Does anybody have a clip of a Stam character soloing the Mad Ogre?

This is somewhat inversive of tradition in Western RPGs, where Wizards are the most difficult to use, but are able to push the highest damage in the end.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

gamerguy757 wrote: »

So a little curious.
As we know the Stamina classes always seem to have higher DPS numbers than that of Magicka. I mean StamCro is highest right now while MagCro is lowest. But why? What makes the stamina toons so much stronger?

Maybe the developers all play Stam builds.