Argonians need a dps skill.

Aptonoth

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

MartiniDaniels

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

Welcome to the club. We whine for re-balance (buff) of argonians and bosmers for half-year already, but no luck, because some PVP builds are very effective with this races..

LuxLunae

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

Adapt... zos took away redguard stamina, stamina recov, stamina %....I adapted... you should too..

Aptonoth

We’ll just have to keep pestering then.

WrathOfInnos

WTB Argonian 8% Spell Crit. Willing to give up the 6% healing done passive in exchange (since 8% Spell Crit will result in about 4-5% more healing anyway). Nobody cares about crit chance in PVP, with the Impen meta that’s been going on for years.

Edit: Also Spell Crit wouldn’t really add any effectiveness to Argonian Tanks.

Aliyavana

argonians don't need a buff, it would ruin my immersion as a dunmer player

WrathOfInnos

Aliyavana wrote: »

argonians don't need a buff, it would ruin my immersion as a dunmer player

What if we say please?

BahometZ

Hah. Yeah, just race change. Zos confirmed slavers.

Vildebill

Tommy_The_Gun

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

Welcome to the club. We whine for re-balance (buff) of argonians and bosmers for half-year already, but no luck, because some PVP builds are very effective with this races..

That is because of infused potion cooldown jewelry. As long as this is in the game, as it is, Argonians (paradoxically) won't be good at anything really.

MLGProPlayer

LuxLunae wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

Adapt... zos took away redguard stamina, stamina recov, stamina %....I adapted... you should too..

By switching to orc?

MartiniDaniels

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

HappyLittleTree

My argonians are doing mighty fine.

Yes a bit of a dps passive would be nice but i did most of the hm content even with my dd Lizardbois.

Noldornir

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

I tank on an Altmer 'cuz i wanna be one and I'd like to have one skill that helps me in that.
TBH it looks like the whole Aldmeri Dominion can't have a decent tank.

I'm with you for this; if it were for me, tho, i'd just get rid of racials as a whole.

PLAY AS YOU LIKE should mean that you can, somehow, hit same results (trough different ways) regardless of classes/races while now you CAN play as you like IF you like to be weaker.

You, as an Argonian should only tank/heal (seeing your passives).
I as an Altmer should only Magicka DPS (seeing my passives).

Play as you like requires balance (every race with a skill for healing/tanking/dps) or no racial skills at all.

Vildebill

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

Raudgrani

Hey ya'll, Argonians just as any other race, can do anything. Especially now since the game is getting so "standardized" in many ways. It's such a load of "unskillness", to say "you can't DPS on a Nord, or do this or that on an argonian". Some races are of course "best in slot" for a primary purpose (DD/healer/tank), but on the other hand - they might still be very viable because of other reasons (such as having great sustain, or being tanky and not dropping dead every 20 seconds).

As a little example. I made a new friend a few days ago, he had promised a friend of his to do some vet DLC dungeons he had not completed. So, we were three guys, me as a Nord NB tank, my friend as a Nord Stamplar, and his (and now mine too hehe...) friend as a Nord Stamblade. We queued for the first dungeon - Depths of Malatar, and had a random second Nord Stamblade picked up.
We *almost* had a no death run at first try, and we thus invited this "new guy" to Xbox Live Chat, and he was willing to help us with the rest of the DLC dungeons we needed to complete. Over the next 3 evenings, we literally did every DLC dungeon in the game, no death runs, speed runs etc. on several of them. We had three skins for this (Amberplasm, Spiderkith and Medidian Purified). 4 Nords, 3 DD's and a tank. "Worst tank class" and "worst DPS race" in the game, no worries - we smash it.

Rake

try slotting dps weapon

barney2525

Vildebill wrote: »

didn't finish it.... " Poorly "

MartiniDaniels

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

Of course skill and experience is still times more effective then race or class. But this has nothing to do with balance, lore, "play the way you want" etc.

Here guys are completing vMoL with no-CP. Does it means that CP distribution can be ditched any time for any role any content?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2nDmk3pkzA

SoLooney

Races have passives, not skills, dont see what you're trying to get at

Argonians can dps, are they BiS for stam or mag dps? No, but they can role play as dps

Vildebill

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

Of course skill and experience is still times more effective then race or class. But this has nothing to do with balance, lore, "play the way you want" etc.

Here guys are completing vMoL with no-CP. Does it means that CP distribution can be ditched any time for any role any content?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2nDmk3pkzA

I think it has all to do with balance since the racials are very balanced today, more than they ever were. Of course some minor tweaking on some races, like argonians, would be nice, especially since healing done is a crappy stat compared to spell damage. But they are still very viable, and races doesn't make that much of a difference as people want to make it sound like.

That video is a perfect example of that player skill means so much more than race, gear and CP will ever do. Not that those factors don't matter, but like I said before, not by a long shot compared to player skill.

So my argument still stands, any race can do any role, and complete all content in the game.

Browiseth

so many people making up straw man arguments in this thread...
the issue isn't that argonian can't play a dps role, it's that they bring nothing to the table to encourage that playstyle

Raudgrani wrote: »

Hey ya'll, Argonians just as any other race, can do anything. Especially now since the game is getting so "standardized" in many ways. It's such a load of "unskillness", to say "you can't DPS on a Nord, or do this or that on an argonian". Some races are of course "best in slot" for a primary purpose (DD/healer/tank), but on the other hand - they might still be very viable because of other reasons (such as having great sustain, or being tanky and not dropping dead every 20 seconds).

As a little example. I made a new friend a few days ago, he had promised a friend of his to do some vet DLC dungeons he had not completed. So, we were three guys, me as a Nord NB tank, my friend as a Nord Stamplar, and his (and now mine too hehe...) friend as a Nord Stamblade. We queued for the first dungeon - Depths of Malatar, and had a random second Nord Stamblade picked up.
We *almost* had a no death run at first try, and we thus invited this "new guy" to Xbox Live Chat, and he was willing to help us with the rest of the DLC dungeons we needed to complete. Over the next 3 evenings, we literally did every DLC dungeon in the game, no death runs, speed runs etc. on several of them. We had three skins for this (Amberplasm, Spiderkith and Medidian Purified). 4 Nords, 3 DD's and a tank. "Worst tank class" and "worst DPS race" in the game, no worries - we smash it.

straw man argument, blatantly ignoring the point of the op

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

My argonians are doing mighty fine.

Yes a bit of a dps passive would be nice but i did most of the hm content even with my dd Lizardbois.

straw man argument, ignoring the point of the op but you play argonian too so you're cool

LuxLunae wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

Adapt... zos took away redguard stamina, stamina recov, stamina %....I adapted... you should too..

straw man argument, ignoring the point of the op

MartiniDaniels

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

Of course skill and experience is still times more effective then race or class. But this has nothing to do with balance, lore, "play the way you want" etc.

Here guys are completing vMoL with no-CP. Does it means that CP distribution can be ditched any time for any role any content?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2nDmk3pkzA

I think it has all to do with balance since the racials are very balanced today, more than they ever were. Of course some minor tweaking on some races, like argonians, would be nice, especially since healing done is a crappy stat compared to spell damage. But they are still very viable, and races doesn't make that much of a difference as people want to make it sound like.

That video is a perfect example of that player skill means so much more than race, gear and CP will ever do. Not that those factors don't matter, but like I said before, not by a long shot compared to player skill.

So my argument still stands, any race can do any role, and complete all content in the game.

Yes, but still it's unfair situation that argonians have weakest pack of passives for PVE roles (with exception of progression level tanking) and are good for PVP, while orcs are BiS dps, BiS high end tank (source - Liofa), and are good for PVP too.
Bretons are like orcs with exception that they share BiS for magicka dps with altmers and to certain extent with dunmers. Meanwhile bretons are BiS for magicka PVP (more viable then altmers/dunmers), BiS healers and considerable tanks (that load of magicka sustain is not a joke, as well as nice resistance bonus).
So we have:
- 2 races which can do everything effectively
- altmers with niche PVP off-resource regen, which is useless even for stamina PVE high elves
- 2 "hybrids" (jack of all trades, best for nothing, hybrids like viable PVE group role doesn't exist)
- 2 pigeon holed tank races
- redguards who still believe they are BiS for sustain (though in practice they are not, orc with lava foot soup has better sustain)
- 2 PVP niche races.
Sorry, I can't call this situation "racials are very balanced today", especially from PVE-side where vast majority spent 90% of their game time.

Kawall

Noldornir wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

It’s so weird seeing their focus be healing or nit as good tank as nord. I just want to plat a dps argonian Nightblade or something more lore accurate than tank or healer. It’s so strange they have no niche.

I tank on an Altmer 'cuz i wanna be one and I'd like to have one skill that helps me in that.
TBH it looks like the whole Aldmeri Dominion can't have a decent tank.

I'm with you for this; if it were for me, tho, i'd just get rid of racials as a whole.

PLAY AS YOU LIKE should mean that you can, somehow, hit same results (trough different ways) regardless of classes/races while now you CAN play as you like IF you like to be weaker.

You, as an Argonian should only tank/heal (seeing your passives).
I as an Altmer should only Magicka DPS (seeing my passives).

Play as you like requires balance (every race with a skill for healing/tanking/dps) or no racial skills at all.

I disagree. Racial passives are both gameplay and lore wise important. A player can play redguard magicka build, but it shouldn't be better/same as altmer or breton magicka build. Vice versa for stamina builds.

Faulgor

Yeah, everybody said so during the race rework on the PTS. Argonians are incredibly understatted. The healing done bonus is laughably weak, Altmer and Dunmer spell damage bonuses might actually be better for healing.

IMO their potion passive should've made them the sustain counterpart to Dunmer, with 1875 stam/mag.

damdamjel

you want them to bite? dont you? lol

ayu_fever

i would be ok with argonians having some extra stamina.

as a member of the dark elf master race, anything to help keep them working harder at my dunmeri estate is always a plus.
the last “employee” of mine to keel over from fatigue was made into a nice purse for my wife.

argonians and khajiits are NOT people. they are objects and hollow of spirit and meaning.

Seraphayel

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

It really just matters for players that can reach the ceiling skill- and performance-wise in this game (and there are not many of them). Not proper weaving light attacks into your rotation costs you five times the DPS a “subpar“ race would.

This whole “race x is only useful for y“ is and has always been nonsense for 99% of the playerbase.

If you want to play an Argonian DPS, do it, you’ll barely notice any difference.

Browiseth

Seraphayel wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

It really just matters for players that can reach the ceiling skill- and performance-wise in this game (and there are not many of that). Not proper weaving light attacks into your rotation costs you five times the DPS a “subpar“ race would.

This whole “race x is only useful for y“ is and has always been nonsense for 99% of the playerbase.

If you want to play an Argonian DPS, do it, you won’t recognize any difference.

not the point of the OP. OP's issue isn't that argonians aren't "viable" as a dps, it's that they don't have any passives to support a dps role and are also just in general bad.

stop using diversion tactics to avoid the actual issue the op is talking about people

Seraphayel

Browiseth wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

It really just matters for players that can reach the ceiling skill- and performance-wise in this game (and there are not many of that). Not proper weaving light attacks into your rotation costs you five times the DPS a “subpar“ race would.

This whole “race x is only useful for y“ is and has always been nonsense for 99% of the playerbase.

If you want to play an Argonian DPS, do it, you won’t recognize any difference.

not the point of the OP. OP's issue isn't that argonians aren't "viable" as a dps, it's that they don't have any passives to support a dps role and are also just in general bad.

stop using diversion tactics to avoid the actual issue the op is talking about people

Neither do Argonians need a passive to support the DPS role nor are they bad. My Magicka Nightblade (DPS/Healer) is an Argonian and is doing absolutely fine. If you - whichever reason you have - think a DPS passive is mandatory for you then pick another race. Argonians have additional max Magicka and additional healing, one increases their performance (and yes, even DPS) as a damage dealer, the other their healing capabilities.

Browiseth

Seraphayel wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Orc and breton really can play any role effectively (within their resource). If stamina healing will be a thing, orc will be BiS stam healer.

Other races - no, they are locked to 1 or max 2 roles, or in case of bosmers and argonians are "top notch" only in some PVP builds.

Okay, but why was vMoL HM world first cleared with a Khajiit tank? Why is there still DDs that play argonians and other meta races that can complete the hardest content?

It's a big difference with being most effective, and being viable. And since race is just a couple of thousand DPS tops on the best players, it don't matter much at all for the average Joe.

It really just matters for players that can reach the ceiling skill- and performance-wise in this game (and there are not many of that). Not proper weaving light attacks into your rotation costs you five times the DPS a “subpar“ race would.

This whole “race x is only useful for y“ is and has always been nonsense for 99% of the playerbase.

If you want to play an Argonian DPS, do it, you won’t recognize any difference.

not the point of the OP. OP's issue isn't that argonians aren't "viable" as a dps, it's that they don't have any passives to support a dps role and are also just in general bad.

stop using diversion tactics to avoid the actual issue the op is talking about people

Neither do Argonians need a passive to support the DPS role nor are they bad. My Magicka Nightblade (DPS/Healer) is an Argonian and is doing absolutely fine. If you - whichever reason you have - think a DPS passive is mandatory for you then pick another race. Argonians have additional max Magicka and additional healing, one increases their performance (and yes, even DPS) as a damage dealer, the other their healing capabilities.

my magicka nightblade does fine so argonians must be fine

well i'm sure you'd make up any personal anecdote to dismiss every argument on the forums so i'll take that with a grain of salt