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Increased Siege Damage is Boring?

Ahtu
Ahtu
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Ever since siege damage was buffed by 30% of initial values, I feel like PvP in Cyrodiil has become stale and stagnant. Players are now turtling in keeps and gates, setting up siege, and generally avoiding PvP altogether. Things are more realistic and even now, and performance has improved, but I can't help but wonder if siege damage was buffed a little too much.

I know that meatbags can be used as a counter, but I don't like sieging, so am I alone in feeling that Cyrodiil is not as fun as it was before siege was buffed?
Edited by Ahtu on July 11, 2019 1:47PM
  • Mr_Walker
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    I do like sieging (and counter sieging), and don't mind the buff so much, except for cold fire. That ish is now insane.
  • technohic
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    I think it's fine. Will have to teach the army of potatoes to move out of the way but is an advantage to being nimble as a smaller group or capable of functioning when split to open another breach.
  • Marcus684
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    Ever since ZOS broke siege damage for a week resulting in insane damage, and subsequently decided to buff siege damage by 30% of initial values to improve game performance, I feel like PvP in Cyrodiil has become stale and stagnant. Players are now turtling in keeps and gates, setting up siege, and generally avoid PvP altogether. Things are more realistic and even now, and performance has improved, but I can't help but wonder if siege damage was buffed a little too much.

    I know that meatbags can be used as a counter, but I don't like sieging, so am I alone in feeling that Cyrodiil is not as fun as it was before siege was buffed?

    The mega-zerg king doesn't like strong siege.

    AHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

    *Deep breath*

    HAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAA!
  • Gariele
    Gariele
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    Buff siege more. Nerf purge and siege shield :^)
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  • technohic
    technohic
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    Gariele wrote: »
    Buff siege more. Nerf purge and siege shield :^)

    Purge st least is being nerfed. Removes 3 from 2 but no longer half duration of all effects which I believe when spammed by a bunch of players was effectively removing all. Also getting a cost increase with extended ritual
  • Ahtu
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    The other factor on my mind is the upcoming nerfs to magic healing which could make siege even more powerful. Stamina healing is getting a huge buff, so I'll be fine, but I can't help but wonder what Cyrodiil looks like if these changes go through. Are we going back to playing a siege simulator again like when Cyrodiil siege damage was ignoring resistances for a week?
    Edited by Ahtu on July 11, 2019 2:03PM
  • technohic
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    Rapid regen will be the same healing coefficient as resolving vigor, but at the catch that it's only single target opposed to self heal. I've heard that you can also run vigor on a mag class for a decent hot but obviously you'll use that precious stam pool.

    But dedicated group spam healers did take a hit but Extended Ritual heals got buffed and probably will be the replacement to springs/compliment it. Of course when moving, this will mean your healers need to be in front of the group

    Theres options out there. You just will have to change the button you spam and maybe add another
    Edited by technohic on July 11, 2019 2:12PM
  • VaranisArano
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    The issue with buffing siege is the same as its always been: in an AvAvA environment, it takes an organized group to heal/purge through powerful siege. The more powerful the siege = the more dedicated healers you need in order to survive.

    So when siege is powerful, we see that random players, small groups, zergsurfers and PUGs are:
    A. more reluctant to attack positions heavily defended with siege because they won't survive
    B. more likely to fort up in a defensible position and siege attackers because it kills unorganized players

    There's the "stagnation" you're seeing.

    What's the solution?
    Hell if I know. If ZOS lowers the damage on siege so that players without dedicated healers can survive, we end up with people whining that organized groups can stand under oils and not take a scratch because they've got dedicated healers. Whereas if ZOS buffs siege to the point that organized raids with dedicated healers really struggle to survive, everyone less organized simply gets melted like we've seen twice before and both times got reverted.
  • Ahtu
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    I can't help but feel like 30% was way too much of a buff to siege damage. I'd be interested to see what a 15% or even 25% buff looks like, but 30% is on the extreme end to me. I don't like backdooring keeps as much and prefer a direct approach as it feels more heroic so this is very tiresome for me.
    Edited by Ahtu on July 11, 2019 2:55PM
  • frostz417
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    Surging keeps is ok. But when you literally are avoiding fights and just siege players when you outnumber them. You’re the problem with this game.
    Counter siege shouldn’t have been buffed so much because elder siege online is stale and boring.
    What’s so fun when I’m in a 3 man group fighting 10 folks and those 10 just run in their keep and put up siege to siege JUST THREE PEOPLE?
    Literally ridiculous.
  • Minnesinger
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    Siege is ok as long as it obliterates zergs as it was intended.
    The wind is cold where I live,
    The blizzard is my home,
    Snow and ice and loaded dice, the Wizard lives alone.
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    I guess we will have to go back to the old way of doing things. Back and forth battles on bridges and gates will have to become the new standard. No more destroying gates or bridges.

    I can live with that.
    Edited by Ahtu on July 11, 2019 4:58PM
  • Hashtag_
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    Siege is ok as long as it obliterates zergs as it was intended.

    It actually causes larger zergs and benefits zergs more.
  • Gariele
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    Siege is ok as long as it obliterates zergs as it was intended.

    The problem here is it kinda doesn’t. You have groups that stack Tanks and Healers and they just purge/heal through all of it. One ballista shot gets close and 3 siege shields goes up and that just
    Ahtu wrote: »
    I guess we will have to go back to the old way of doing things. Back and forth battles on bridges and gates will have to become the new standard. No more destroying gates or bridges.

    I can live with that.

    See you at Alessia bridge soon
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  • illutian
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    Siege has never been a problem for me...accept when I get greedy and think I can get that one last shot off before Dodge Rolling out of the impact zone.


    .....I've managed ZERO out of the hundreds of time. :(
    You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
  • SillyGT
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    Siege should not do damage to players it was way too strong before prebuff. And they buff it and playing against people that have 30/20 open field is not fair and unplayable.
  • Ahtu
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    After last night, my opinion on increased siege damage has completely changed. This was the first time I'd seen the direction that the developers intended. We will make the necessary adjustments and I would like to thank @ZOS_BrianWheeler and his team for doing a fantastic job in eight months.

    I honestly had doubts about Volendrung too but after last night my eyes were opened. I'm not going to say what happened specifically, but I'm looking forward to future changes as he really knows what he's doing. I am overall quite impressed and pleased.
    Edited by Ahtu on July 12, 2019 11:30AM
  • Minnesinger
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    Gariele wrote: »
    Siege is ok as long as it obliterates zergs as it was intended.

    The problem here is it kinda doesn’t. You have groups that stack Tanks and Healers and they just purge/heal through all of it. One ballista shot gets close and 3 siege shields goes up and that just
    Ahtu wrote: »
    I guess we will have to go back to the old way of doing things. Back and forth battles on bridges and gates will have to become the new standard. No more destroying gates or bridges.

    I can live with that.

    See you at Alessia bridge soon

    I guess the EP raids that the OP is representing gets obliterated. Of course, there are groups that know what they are doing though.
    The wind is cold where I live,
    The blizzard is my home,
    Snow and ice and loaded dice, the Wizard lives alone.
  • Ahtu
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    I wouldn't say that we got obliterated, but the old way of doing things wasn't working so we had to adjust if we wanted to be successful. It's a bit of a learning curve because the game has changed so much essentially overnight with faction locks on top of the increased siege damage. However, now that I see what changes need to be made, it makes the game even more fun than it was before when we were dominating.

    The game is much more competitive in its current state, making victories and defeats much more considerable. This is how it should have always been but somehow we drifted away from that. I've never seen such epic battles since I started playing in Morrowind, not even close.

    It's truly a sight to behold and a beautiful thing to see the increased comradery that didn't exist before.
    Edited by Ahtu on July 12, 2019 2:16PM
  • illutian
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    Funny part is...siege damage use to be a true hazard to players; back in the day (before CP). So, anyone who's played since launch is just going to load up the old knowledge. xD
    You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
  • Ahtu
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    Yes, you're right. The game is like how it was at launch now. No more facerolling.
  • ellahellabella
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    This is the problem with pvp crybabies. Instead of working around the issue, they QQ about it and demand nerfs. Glad that Ahtu is learning that it's all about adapting.

    How about the rest of you crybabies do?
    Try to read everything I write with an Australian accent

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    Full faction locks are only further dividing an already dwindling pvp community

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  • frostz417
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    This is the problem with pvp crybabies. Instead of working around the issue, they QQ about it and demand nerfs. Glad that Ahtu is learning that it's all about adapting.

    How about the rest of you crybabies do?

    Sorry, but when I’m in a 3 man group and the 10 man I’m fighting just runs back to a keep to siege. There’s an issue that needs to be addressed.
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    This is the problem with pvp crybabies. Instead of working around the issue, they QQ about it and demand nerfs. Glad that Ahtu is learning that it's all about adapting.

    How about the rest of you crybabies do?

    Sorry, but when I’m in a 3 man group and the 10 man I’m fighting just runs back to a keep to siege. There’s an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Well, you're not going to siege the keep with three people. It sounds like you just want to farm, which is okay. Why not take a resource or fall back to lure some of them outside of the keep's protection?
    Edited by Ahtu on July 12, 2019 2:54PM
  • Hashtag_
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    frostz417 wrote: »
    This is the problem with pvp crybabies. Instead of working around the issue, they QQ about it and demand nerfs. Glad that Ahtu is learning that it's all about adapting.

    How about the rest of you crybabies do?

    Sorry, but when I’m in a 3 man group and the 10 man I’m fighting just runs back to a keep to siege. There’s an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Well, you're not going to siege the keep with three people. It sounds like you just want to farm, which is okay. Why not take a resource or fall back to lure some of them outside of the keep's protection?
    Your group stopped following us 😭
  • Gariele
    Gariele
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    This is the problem with pvp crybabies. Instead of working around the issue, they QQ about it and demand nerfs. Glad that Ahtu is learning that it's all about adapting.

    How about the rest of you crybabies do?

    Sorry, but when I’m in a 3 man group and the 10 man I’m fighting just runs back to a keep to siege. There’s an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Are you really QQing cause people wouldn’t allow themselves to be farmed. That logic
    Edited by Gariele on July 13, 2019 10:15PM
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  • Kadoin
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    frostz417 wrote: »
    This is the problem with pvp crybabies. Instead of working around the issue, they QQ about it and demand nerfs. Glad that Ahtu is learning that it's all about adapting.

    How about the rest of you crybabies do?

    Sorry, but when I’m in a 3 man group and the 10 man I’m fighting just runs back to a keep to siege. There’s an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Well, you're not going to siege the keep with three people. It sounds like you just want to farm, which is okay. Why not take a resource or fall back to lure some of them outside of the keep's protection?

    Strange, EP used to do that on PC NA all the time at night when the population was dead. Well, at least before a certain group appeared in EP...
  • susmitds
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    I can't help but feel like 30% was way too much of a buff to siege damage. I'd be interested to see what a 15% or even 25% buff looks like, but 30% is on the extreme end to me. I don't like backdooring keeps as much and prefer a direct approach as it feels more heroic so this is very tiresome for me.

    Must feel very heroic taking a keep by stacking all of EP on one point, lagging the opposition out.
  • Kaspar
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    Maybe keep a respectable base damage for walls and single target and have it scale depending on the number of targets hit. So if your seige hits a zerg everyone goes flying and takes a lot of damage compared to if the siege hits only one guy. The hit radius may or may not need to be altered.
  • Mr_Walker
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    Well, you're not going to siege the keep with three people.

    Why not, I've done it.
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