5.1.0 the Nerf to AOE damage

teladoy

Why they Nerf the AOE damage? They want in pvp only builds concentrate in 1 v 1?
I play only battlegrounds and I have an icemage warden. I don't feel like I do a lot more damage and usually I'm weak in a 1vs1. Also play AOE builds requires a lot strategy since you have to take care of your Ressources and don't spam your abilities everywhere. The people normally has skills and know very well to move out....

I would like to hear some reasons why these changes...

reprosal

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

Jeremy

teladoy wrote: »

Why they Nerf the AOE damage? They want in pvp only builds concentrate in 1 v 1?
I play only battlegrounds and I have an icemage warden. I don't feel like I do a lot more damage and usually I'm weak in a 1vs1. Also play AOE builds requires a lot strategy since you have to take care of your Ressources and don't spam your abilities everywhere. The people normally has skills and know very well to move out....

I would like to hear some reasons why these changes...

It was too powerful in PvP. Groups would just stack ground dots and area damage and it made it nearly impossible to fight them. As you say - you were left with no other option but to move away - and that made for some boring PvP.

Combat is a lot more fun when players can actually engage and fight with one another. So I'm behind these changes.

MaxJrFTW

Because aoe dmg should be for aoe, not for single target. Personally i hope they nerf aoe even more. Under no circumstances you should ever be using aoe abilities for single target, EVER. It's poor combat design and it doesn't make any sense.

teladoy

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

AbysmalGhul

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Because aoe dmg should be for aoe, not for single target. Personally i hope they nerf aoe even more. Under no circumstances you should ever be using aoe abilities for single target, EVER. It's poor combat design and it doesn't make any sense.

Vvvwut?

Jeremy

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

it wasn't just in zergs. Even battlegrounds were being dominated by this strategy.

Chadak

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

Nemesis7884

Jeremy wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Why they Nerf the AOE damage? They want in pvp only builds concentrate in 1 v 1?
I play only battlegrounds and I have an icemage warden. I don't feel like I do a lot more damage and usually I'm weak in a 1vs1. Also play AOE builds requires a lot strategy since you have to take care of your Ressources and don't spam your abilities everywhere. The people normally has skills and know very well to move out....

I would like to hear some reasons why these changes...

It was too powerful in PvP. Groups would just stack ground dots and area damage and it made it nearly impossible to fight them. As you say - you were left with no other option but to move away - and that made for some boring PvP.

Combat is a lot more fun when players can actually engage and fight with one another. So I'm behind these changes.

see here is the thing...i dont give a flying flic about pvp nor do 80% of the core playrrs that are pve focused....so good luck with keeping your player bases that als disproportionally pays the bills while catering to a minority that never spends money in the crownstore and just complains all the time anyway

Jeremy

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Why they Nerf the AOE damage? They want in pvp only builds concentrate in 1 v 1?
I play only battlegrounds and I have an icemage warden. I don't feel like I do a lot more damage and usually I'm weak in a 1vs1. Also play AOE builds requires a lot strategy since you have to take care of your Ressources and don't spam your abilities everywhere. The people normally has skills and know very well to move out....

I would like to hear some reasons why these changes...

It was too powerful in PvP. Groups would just stack ground dots and area damage and it made it nearly impossible to fight them. As you say - you were left with no other option but to move away - and that made for some boring PvP.

Combat is a lot more fun when players can actually engage and fight with one another. So I'm behind these changes.

see here is the thing...i dont give a flying flic about pvp nor do 80% of the core playrrs that are pve focused....so good luck with keeping your player bases that als disproportionally pays the bills while catering to a minority that never spends money in the crownstore and just complains all the time anyway

You're talking to someone who believes the damage on this game is out of control in both PvP and PvE. So I would be behind these changes in both instances to be honest with you.

I also do a lot of PvE and PvP - and buy things out of their crown store.

MartiniDaniels

Tbh, I don't see any real nerf to AOE damage (PVE). Splitting soul trap somewhat compensates for loss with exception of huge stacks. Exploding wall deals similar damage to previous blockade.
And ST dps was buffed. After all the crying it seems like overall power creep will only increase the only difference is that every class now should rotate ton of dots, which is only a good thing to even out real trial dps.

MaxJrFTW

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Why they Nerf the AOE damage? They want in pvp only builds concentrate in 1 v 1?
I play only battlegrounds and I have an icemage warden. I don't feel like I do a lot more damage and usually I'm weak in a 1vs1. Also play AOE builds requires a lot strategy since you have to take care of your Ressources and don't spam your abilities everywhere. The people normally has skills and know very well to move out....

I would like to hear some reasons why these changes...

It was too powerful in PvP. Groups would just stack ground dots and area damage and it made it nearly impossible to fight them. As you say - you were left with no other option but to move away - and that made for some boring PvP.

Combat is a lot more fun when players can actually engage and fight with one another. So I'm behind these changes.

see here is the thing...i dont give a flying flic about pvp nor do 80% of the core playrrs that are pve focused....so good luck with keeping your player bases that als disproportionally pays the bills while catering to a minority that never spends money in the crownstore and just complains all the time anyway

I'm a pvper, I've spent nearly $3000 on the crown store. Your argument is invalid.

Kawall

Aoe nerf has nothing to do with pvp. It was pve nerf. They were overperforming by a huge margin, even against single target. So they made aoes weaker than single target dots.

Jeremy

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Why they Nerf the AOE damage? They want in pvp only builds concentrate in 1 v 1?
I play only battlegrounds and I have an icemage warden. I don't feel like I do a lot more damage and usually I'm weak in a 1vs1. Also play AOE builds requires a lot strategy since you have to take care of your Ressources and don't spam your abilities everywhere. The people normally has skills and know very well to move out....

I would like to hear some reasons why these changes...

It was too powerful in PvP. Groups would just stack ground dots and area damage and it made it nearly impossible to fight them. As you say - you were left with no other option but to move away - and that made for some boring PvP.

Combat is a lot more fun when players can actually engage and fight with one another. So I'm behind these changes.

see here is the thing...i dont give a flying flic about pvp nor do 80% of the core playrrs that are pve focused....so good luck with keeping your player bases that als disproportionally pays the bills while catering to a minority that never spends money in the crownstore and just complains all the time anyway

I'm a pvper, I've spent nearly $3000 on the crown store. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah it's quite an assumption to assume PvPers don't spend money on the crown store. I doubt that's true.

Seraphayel

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Because aoe dmg should be for aoe, not for single target. Personally i hope they nerf aoe even more. Under no circumstances you should ever be using aoe abilities for single target, EVER. It's poor combat design and it doesn't make any sense.

This. AoE skills outperforming ST skills in ST fights never made sense and was bad design from the start.

ezio45

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Because aoe dmg should be for aoe, not for single target. Personally i hope they nerf aoe even more. Under no circumstances you should ever be using aoe abilities for single target, EVER. It's poor combat design and it doesn't make any sense.

I disagree, there isnt alot of aoes that are actually viable in pvp. Hurricane, destro ult and perma are the only good ones

teladoy

Good bye to my warden icemage. I think the winter Revenge Nerf is a killer. In pvp is very easy to avoid areas if you have some skills. Builds based on area damage are also very weak in a 1vs 1. I don't understand this changes at all... My mage dk with skorya, silks and burning does insane aoe damage and the funny is that dk are not exempt of cc and snare, eruption snares a 70% and fossilize stops them in the middle of All your areas enough time to burn them down.

teladoy

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Because aoe dmg should be for aoe, not for single target. Personally i hope they nerf aoe even more. Under no circumstances you should ever be using aoe abilities for single target, EVER. It's poor combat design and it doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying I expect to do 1vs1 with AOE skills and always win.
But in a team of 4 I expect to help my team if I success land my aoes catching with LUCK 2, 3 or more in an area!
Now my role has been nerfed.
One more important thing is that is almost impossible expect kill like a god with aoes. They do damage but very easy to sustain if you know what you do and how you move.

jainiadral

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

susmitds

Boy, you missed the memo previous patch when everybody and their mom was complaining about high AoE numbers were in comparison to Single Target ones.

The type of build you ran is considered one of the most toxic PvP builds. Snarebots made BGs hell. 1v1, these builds will never win a fight against any decent enemy. But, these builds scale very fast with numbers. When, you can hide behind three other guys(preferrably other tanky AoE builds like Stamsorc, Stamden, Magplar or Magden) in a BG sticking together, all of sudden snarebots go from weak to invincible. Anybody not running seriously high mitigation will melt to sheer AoE damage incoming that can't be dodged. 4 AoE builds sticking in a tight ball, especially in premade BGs easily maws down the opposition simply by brainless stacking AoE damage in chokepoints and major fighting areas.

And no, avoiding AoEs is no real counter as others will need to enter the AoE blackhole to fight you or your group for points in BG. It is very easy for AoE builds to third party fights between two other teams when they are low on health and finish them off.

It is not really any different from snipetards. Use others as distraction and lay down damage hiding from the back.

It was so ridiculous that I had converted even stamNB to AoE build with Power Extraction and Caltrops to take advantage.

I am personally delighted that these types are getting nerfed next patch. And no your MagDK won't be lucky with snares or AoE next patch either. Every single Stamina build will have Major Evasion to cut your damage down and all builds will have high snare immunity times. By using AoE against them, you will just give them free Major Expedition.

FoulSnowpaw

Doing pvp in Cyrodill as melee is almost impossible. AOE will instant kill unless you're a tank or something.
Anyhow the solution was always to adjust Battle Spirit(the perk when you enter pvp zone that reduces healing done and boosts health etc) but it seems the preferable was to make pve people upset. The problem always seemed to be too much damage in pvp, then a following excuse, too much sustain in pvp, too much health in pvp I can't kill him/her. pve mobs and bosses can easily get a health boost if the reason was they died to easily. But then pve noobs complain about veteran players being too godly even though they just started playing... and they want to nerf power without realizing they nerfed themselves.

PvP always gets priority because that's where most of the income comes about. Competitive gaming companies always make a lot of money like those cliché FPS games like COD, R6, Overwatch, you name it.

But I'm sure TESO is a game where most come for the adventuring and story parts, much like they did for Skyrim which was a big bank. But I suppose in a larger scale, the trend is still more profitable. The reasons for abandoning uniqueness for assimilation can be guessed.

Ruvalie

jainiadral wrote: »

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

I'm concerned about this too as someone who likes solo questing. It's all very well to say AOE shouldn't do more damage in single target situations, but single target doing more damage in AOE situations is far more unpleasant to play.

Seraphayel

jainiadral wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

There is no kind of overland content that’s difficult. Not even slightly difficult. The lower AoE damage might increase fight duration a bit but that’s it for the most part.

Salvas_Aren

As you all pointed out, the problem does not rest with the aoes, it rests with Zeni's unwillingness or incompetence to balance PvP and PvE combat independently.

jainiadral

Seraphayel wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

There is no kind of overland content that’s difficult. Not even slightly difficult. The lower AoE damage might increase fight duration a bit but that’s it for the most part.

Yeah, and as someone who isn't particularly fond of the combat system, this is going to turn questing into a slog. Am currently in Bangkorai where the enemy density is approximately 80 kajillion mobs per square inch, especially in the middle of roads. Doing anything there already is an exercise in pure tedium. Make those fights last longer and you have a recipe for boring torture.

Difficulty isn't the issue. Drudgery and a lack of fun are.

Arrodisia

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

As you all pointed out, the problem does not rest with the aoes, it rests with Zeni's unwillingness or incompetence to balance PvP and PvE combat independently.

I, honestly, don't know why they haven't done this yet, and I don't want to assume any reasons, but I do agree. PvP and PvE should be balanced separately. No matter what changes are done players will die in PvP. Otherwise, there would be no point in being there. The change shouldn't have to impact PvE every time.

Jeremy

jainiadral wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

There is no kind of overland content that’s difficult. Not even slightly difficult. The lower AoE damage might increase fight duration a bit but that’s it for the most part.

Yeah, and as someone who isn't particularly fond of the combat system, this is going to turn questing into a slog. Am currently in Bangkorai where the enemy density is approximately 80 kajillion mobs per square inch, especially in the middle of roads. Doing anything there already is an exercise in pure tedium. Make those fights last longer and you have a recipe for boring torture.

Difficulty isn't the issue. Drudgery and a lack of fun are.

They may take a whole second longer to kill. ^^

SidraWillowsky

Jeremy wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

it wasn't just in zergs. Even battlegrounds were being dominated by this strategy.

+1

The few BGs that I subjected myself to were made miserable by the fact that I literally couldn't move 75% of the time. Super frustrating when you pug into a BG with a fully coordinated group of 3 ice magdens and a petsorc. Mindlessly spamming AoEs and stuns shouldn't be the winning playstyle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty annoyed that this sort of skill abuse by PvPers is going to pretty significantly impact PvE, but at least there's hope for PvP to require at least SOME semblance of strategy vs. what essentially amounts to slamming one's head into the keyboard over and over.

Seraphayel

jainiadral wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

There is no kind of overland content that’s difficult. Not even slightly difficult. The lower AoE damage might increase fight duration a bit but that’s it for the most part.

Yeah, and as someone who isn't particularly fond of the combat system, this is going to turn questing into a slog. Am currently in Bangkorai where the enemy density is approximately 80 kajillion mobs per square inch, especially in the middle of roads. Doing anything there already is an exercise in pure tedium. Make those fights last longer and you have a recipe for boring torture.

Difficulty isn't the issue. Drudgery and a lack of fun are.

I agree with this but that’s another problem. Like every f* enemy snaring, rooting or stunning you. And mob placement is very badly done. But decreasing AoE damage isn’t the problem here, especially in delves it was laughable how fast you rushed through them.

jainiadral

Jeremy wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

There is no kind of overland content that’s difficult. Not even slightly difficult. The lower AoE damage might increase fight duration a bit but that’s it for the most part.

Yeah, and as someone who isn't particularly fond of the combat system, this is going to turn questing into a slog. Am currently in Bangkorai where the enemy density is approximately 80 kajillion mobs per square inch, especially in the middle of roads. Doing anything there already is an exercise in pure tedium. Make those fights last longer and you have a recipe for boring torture.

Difficulty isn't the issue. Drudgery and a lack of fun are.

They may take a whole second longer to kill. ^^

A second x 1000 each play session that could be spent doing something more interesting.

I wish they'd just split-balance, give everyone unsatisfied with overland difficulty their veteran instance, and leave the rest of us alone. At this point, I'd pay a lot of crowns to keep the current version of the game without constant nerfs and adjustments.

Jeremy

jainiadral wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Exactly because of your play style. PvP whined about zerg AoE damage so we get this.

So now single AOE damage players are injured because of zergs? This how we solve the problems? We put everybody in the same bag and we throw them to the river? I was expecting more intelligent from zos if the main reason of the problem are the zergs as you say.

PvE always gets thrown into the woodchipper over PvP concerns. That's the golden rule around here.

No kidding. This is royally going to suck in any solo situation when the game throws more than one enemy at you Which would be pretty much everything in overland, delves, and public dungeons.

There is no kind of overland content that’s difficult. Not even slightly difficult. The lower AoE damage might increase fight duration a bit but that’s it for the most part.

Yeah, and as someone who isn't particularly fond of the combat system, this is going to turn questing into a slog. Am currently in Bangkorai where the enemy density is approximately 80 kajillion mobs per square inch, especially in the middle of roads. Doing anything there already is an exercise in pure tedium. Make those fights last longer and you have a recipe for boring torture.

Difficulty isn't the issue. Drudgery and a lack of fun are.

They may take a whole second longer to kill. ^^

A second x 1000 each play session that could be spent doing something more interesting.

I wish they'd just split-balance, give everyone unsatisfied with overland difficulty their veteran instance, and leave the rest of us alone. At this point, I'd pay a lot of crowns to keep the current version of the game without constant nerfs and adjustments.

Well I won't argue with you there. Making a veteran version available for those of us who want a more challenging overland would shut me up in a hurry and content me for awhile to come on this game. So anyone who supports that gets an automatic awesome from me.