Any Weapon Any Role

FoulSnowpaw

Basically if you want to use a Melee Weapon to restore magicka and deal proper spell damage with you should be able to.
If you want to use a Staff to deal physical damage and restore stamina you should be able to.

Heck if you want to shoot rocks with a staff for physical damage I don't see why not. More interestingly staves can be used to whack people. ZOS recently added a "spear" artifact anyhow.
Heck if you want a Bloodskaal Blade(skyrim) that shoots waves of energy...

Theory:
Have Weapon or Spell Damage become the primary stat based on the highest maximum value of a resource.
If you have more magicka than stamina clearly you mean to cast spells.
If you have more stamina than magicka clearly you mean to cast abilities.
No confusion there. Hybrids are still possible with pelinal's aptitude, so no harm at all.

Have resources restored based on the higher maximum resource.
If you have more stamina than magicka you clearly want to restore stamina.
If you have more magicka than stamina you clearly want to restore magicka.

What about tanks who use both resources?
Tanks who require a secondary resource restore should be receiving synergies and/or converting resources to redistribute(equilibrium ability is one way). This will also incentivize Harmony Jewelry trait.

What about pvp who use both resources?
Potions make up for displacement. I suppose now there's more strategic play in resource management in combat.
Heavy Attacks aren't used much in pvp honestly, especially if a mag user is trying to get stamina with a sword...

pve…
Most people go after a single damage type(mag or stam) so there's not much to say here other than theory doesn't affect any aspect at all.

These things do not affect item sets as they are and have no known harm whatsoever.

GeorgeBlack

Not sure if..

Attackfrog

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Not sure if..

I am sure.

It is.

FoulSnowpaw

Perhaps the wording is too much for some.

Instead of having a weapon type determine whether you are stam based or mag based damage, have the type based on the highest resource maximum.

i.e. You have a Greatsword. You have more magicka than stamina. Your greatsword now deals spell damage not weapon damage

If you have a staff, and have more stamina than magicka your damage type outputs as physical.

Instead of having a weapon type determine whether you restore magicka or stamina, have it restore resources based on the highest resource maximum.

i.e. You have a Greatsword. You have more magicka than stamina. Your greatsword now restores magicka not stamina.

If you have a staff, and you have more stamina than magicka you restore stamina rather than magicka.

Kel

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

Perhaps the wording is too much for some.

Instead of having a weapon type determine whether you are stam based or mag based damage, have the type based on the highest resource maximum.

i.e. You have a Greatsword. You have more magicka than stamina. Your greatsword now deals spell damage not weapon damage

If you have a staff, and have more stamina than magicka your damage type outputs as physical.

Instead of having a weapon type determine whether you restore magicka or stamina, have it restore resources based on the highest resource maximum.

i.e. You have a Greatsword. You have more magicka than stamina. Your greatsword now restores magicka not stamina.

If you have a staff, and you have more stamina than magicka you restore stamina rather than magicka.

The idea has merit.
However, Zos would have to rewrite all the weapons in the game...how they function and give them a duality, so to speak. Two sides to every weapon...one magicka, one stamina. As well as coding two different tool tips that would change on the fly.
What if you're casting and your magicka pool dips below your stam? Would your tool tip then flip?

More IMPORTANTLY, do you think Zos could code that and not break a hundred more things?
I don't. Nor do I want them to start making such drastic changes to the fundamentals of the game before they get around to just fixing the fundamentals of the game first...

GeorgeBlack

Let me put it in 2 words.
Delete stamina resource.
New stats:
MP
ATK
Critical
Penetration
MP Regen

Ok sounds good. Do the same for class abilities and we have a deal. Otherwise.. what's in it for stamina Classes? We dont care for staffs. Staves? Wood

TheShadowScout

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

Basically if you want to use a Melee Weapon to restore magicka and deal proper spell damage with you should be able to.
If you want to use a Staff to deal physical damage and restore stamina you should be able to.

Why do people keep saying foolishness to homogenificate the game? Making everything play the same is not a good thing, mmm'kay?

If you were to go that way, you might as well remove ALL stats, and replace it with a single one "Competence" and let everything be based on that. Which would be no fun at all... its the -differences- that make things interesting!

If you don't believe it, go ahead and play a few rounds of rock-paper-scissors with rock only. For everyone. See how much fun that will be.

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

Instead of having a weapon type determine whether you are stam based or mag based damage, have the type based on the highest resource maximum.

...which makes no sense whatsoever.

Imagine... your character is a weak-armed nerdy mage who spent all their time with their nose in the books, learning tons of mystic powers to wield, but never trained their muscles... why should they be able to pick up a -muscle- powered greatsword, swing it with their spindly arms and suddenly be able to somehow use it effectively doing -magic- damage???

Or your character is an iron-thewed barbarian warrior, veteran of a thousand battles, muscles on their muscles, to better slay dragons with, yet when they pick up a mages staff... instead of only being able to hit someone over the head with it, they can suddenly use it to punch fireballs into existence through sheer brawn??? Or wring that lightning staff in their strong, strong hands until it squeals and shoots rocks instead of magical lightning bolts???


Nah.
Makes no sense at all.
Adds no benefit at all to the game.


Instead it would be a far better idea to add more weapons so people can have more choices as to how they want to fight... give stamina characters staff-like polearms to wield, and give magica characters some additional options besides the staff, something with less range and more impact, perhaps... and then let each pick and choose what they want to try for their playstyle... but I would say that, would I not?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1

Gandrhulf_Harbard

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

We dont care for staffs. Staves? Wood

That's just short-sighted, narrow-mondfedness on ZOS' part.

There's no reason at all that a Staff has be doing Magicka Damage.

In fact... ...wait for it... ...the Quarterstaff is a historical weapon, one that requires significant physical skill and STAMINA to master - I know, I tried.

It would not be to hard to work out a coherent Stamina based skill set for a Staff.

Personally, I would love it.


All The Best

Darkenarlol

ok now go make your own game

with all that cra...great ideas

and let ESO be as it is

Gandrhulf_Harbard

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Imagine... your character is a weak-armed nerdy mage who spent all their time with their nose in the books, learning tons of mystic powers to wield, but never trained their muscles... why should they be able to pick up a -muscle- powered greatsword, swing it with their spindly arms and suddenly be able to somehow use it effectively doing -magic- damage???

Well, because its a MAGIC Sword - d'uh.

Oh, and BTW:



maybe the Destro-Staff Ultimate could ha a Morph that allows us to Dual-Wield Sword and Staff.


All The Best

TheShadowScout

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Imagine... your character is a weak-armed nerdy mage who spent all their time with their nose in the books, learning tons of mystic powers to wield, but never trained their muscles... why should they be able to pick up a -muscle- powered greatsword, swing it with their spindly arms and suddenly be able to somehow use it effectively doing -magic- damage???

Well, because its a MAGIC Sword - d'uh.

So you are saying... what? That a sword somehow becomes "magic" when a mage picks it up??? That somehow it changes to weight less so a feeble nerd mages untrained muscles can still swing it around? That somehow it changes from steel to arcane energy to do magic damage?
Nah.

I mean, yeah, there are "weapons" a mage can wield like that. Dawnbreaker from the FG for example. Red daggers as nightblade. Golden spears as templar. Lava whips as DK. Eldritch scythe as necromancer.

But those "conjured weapons" are not exactly what we here are discussing, are they now?

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Oh, and BTW:

...you -are- aware Tamriel and Middle-earth are two different things. Different worlds. Different universes. Different rulesets...

Although, I definitely would love to see some new skill line for "melee and magic", like mentioned:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1

But even there, staves are two-handed weapons in ESO. I mean, what's next, wanting to dual-wield greatswords...

(That's a different universe too. And a level-100 totally OP character.)

albesca

TheShadowScout wrote: »

That a sword somehow becomes "magic" when a mage picks it up??? That somehow it changes to weight less so a feeble nerd mages untrained muscles can still swing it around?

The Elder Scrolls setting has battlemages, and those usually aren't wimps.
Other than that I agree that tying the weapon damage to your highest stat regardless of weapon type makes no sense (magicka needs alternative weapon types, though)

Mettaricana

We need a special weapon varient like arcane weapons that convert all skills in exsisiting lines into either magicka or hybrid weapons like make it so inplace of a trait as a trade off it heals mag and stam and any skills in that weapons skill line deal mag dmg

ffyre

TheShadowScout wrote: »

So you are saying... what? That a sword somehow becomes "magic" when a mage picks it up???

It wouldn't work to explain the ultra strong somehow getting a mages staff to work for them, but a weak mage could pretty easily self-cast a spell to imbue him/herself with strength and then use the sword. Or conjure the sword to fight for them. I feel like the any skilled magical character could pretty much do whatever they wanted.

Warriors who have spent decades training their combat skills/agility/strength/whatever, however, really wouldn't be able to use a mage's staff properly without specific battlemage-type training. So logically they're kind of toast in the "world-logic" of the OP framework.

I wouldn't say it's a bad idea, it's just not a very feasible one.

TheShadowScout

albesca wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

That a sword somehow becomes "magic" when a mage picks it up??? That somehow it changes to weight less so a feeble nerd mages untrained muscles can still swing it around?

The Elder Scrolls setting has battlemages, and those usually aren't wimps.
Other than that I agree that tying the weapon damage to your highest stat regardless of weapon type makes no sense (magicka needs alternative weapon types, though)

And boy do I wish "battlemage" type hybrid characters were still viable!
Bring back attribute softcaps!
Because as was said, characters that -are- both trained in weapon combat AND destructive magic have always been a part of the elder scrolls universe. And right now... those types are not even close to getting competetive with the specialized META...

ffyre wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

So you are saying... what? That a sword somehow becomes "magic" when a mage picks it up???

It wouldn't work to explain the ultra strong somehow getting a mages staff to work for them, but a weak mage could pretty easily self-cast a spell to imbue him/herself with strength and then use the sword. Or conjure the sword to fight for them. I feel like the any skilled magical character could pretty much do whatever they wanted.

If there was a "strength" spell... then yeah, though in the elder scrolls universe, that never worked all too well (remember how much those "fortify attribute" spells helped?) And even if that were more effective, a mage would need the -training- to use a sword well, which would have to come with some muscles as well... and see above on hybrid characters in ESO these days...

Of course, if the option existed, fighters would also make use of it, paying mages to enchant their gear with the same strength-raising spell, and the spellcaster is once again on the same footing. And there is no "Perfect Warrior" spell in the elder scrolls universe...

As for the "conjured sword"... that is already in ESO. Dawnbreaker and other "conjured weapon" skills. Or a certain crafted armor set from orsinium... none of which have to do with a mage picking up a plain old steel sword and somehow wielding it as good as a trained warrior...

ffyre wrote: »

Warriors who have spent decades training their combat skills/agility/strength/whatever, however, really wouldn't be able to use a mage's staff properly without specific battlemage-type training. So logically they're kind of toast in the "world-logic" of the OP framework.

Yeah, best they could do might be using it as quaterstaff. Which is a totally viable way to knock someone off their horse too, but... not how staves work in the hands of a mage, shooting balls of fire and bolts of lightning...

All in all, its not a good idea fluff-wise, and an even worse one from a gameplay PoV - as I said, making characters more -similar- leeches the fun out of the game. I mean, if they wanted that, they could have given people premade templates only to play... which seems what some people long for, but that is just a different type of game compared to a "build up -your- character" MMORPG.

Starlock

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

Basically if you want to use a Melee Weapon to restore magicka and deal proper spell damage with you should be able to.
If you want to use a Staff to deal physical damage and restore stamina you should be able to.

It can't come soon enough. Alternatively, Zenimax needs to hurry it up already and introduce a new weapon skill line that is melee and restores magicka.

CambionDaemon

Definitely bring back soft caps and I would love a magicka melee skill line.

rotaugen454

How about no...

emilyhyoyeon

I would like this for rp reasons

ghastley

I want to do piercing damage with my shield!

Ardaghion

I think there's some merit to this idea.

I have a DK with dual wield and bow but I'd like to use more than the one or two DK skills that stamina morph. So much of the DK skill line is magicka based but I can't have a large magicka pool if I want my LA/HA skills to do much damage. If I want to use DK magicka skills I need to have a staff, a bit more variety would be nice.

Maybe what would be better is if some bar skills could restore some resources based on resource cost. Magicka based skills could restore some magick, staff HA would still restore magick, stamina based skills could restore some stamina, physical weapons would still restore stamina.

Note, I'm saying "some", just as some skills return health, other skills could restore other resources.

Muzzick

That just doesn't make sense. A lot of the damage of any weapon should be from the user not the weapon itself. Why should a mage invested in all magic do the same damage with a sword swing than a trained swordsman who invested in stamina and physical damage dealing. Mage should be glad they could even lift up the large two handed weapon

FoulSnowpaw

So some things need to be further clarified it seems. I'm not pushing for the idea to go through, but it is a matter of understanding a suggestion and having an on topic feedback on the proper foundational aspect, in order to have beneficial discussion., which has a potential to bring about newer, more enlightened theories that aim to be resourceful in future discussions.

Threshold maximum value is the overall maximum resource as in you have 50k maximum magicka as a foundation. Tool tips will not be based on expendable value of a resource therefore is unchanging.
The initial idea is damage based on threshold value. This already somewhat exists for light and heavy attacks for weapons but is not interchangeable with stam/mag based weapons. Staff damage is based primarily off maximum magicka for example, but when you wield a sword your light and heavy attacks are significantly lowered because a physical weapon damage is based off stamina. The idea is have it where no matter what weapon, the damage is based off the highest maximum in general. Therefore in this scenario your sword damage is based off your maximum magicka since your magicka maximum is higher.

Some other people say that other rulesets from other worlds do not apply, but who's really to set the bounds of a changing universe... The game itself has broken a lot of "rules" set unofficially by anonymous "fans" yet the game persists and perseveres despite the falls that bombards against it. New content always invites and circulates a thriving community. It's a matter of those who work strategically with the changes and overtime manipulate the overall to their preference at some point.
This is off topic but, the idea of a good game is not to fulfill expectations of its guests but surprise its guests with the unexpected. Guests want something unique and full of wonder and excitement, and offered things they've never seen before.
Now magic swords and staves having a secondary use as melee "polearms or spears"....

Yet some immerse the idea of human aspect of reality into a fantasy game nonetheless. The way TESO is right now, no matter what a mage can wield heavy weapons if they want to and can use physical abilities and ultimates despite being mag based; can't stop a mage from using Dawnbreaker of Smiting(which a lot of mag users use in pvp despite being total physical damage). It's just a matter making it possible to restore resources based on build type; mag or stam. And having the flexibility of a weapon being able to fit the user rather than the user fit the weapon.

There still seems to be a confusion about the idea breaking code but in reality the basis of it already exists. There are some class abilities/passives that scale off your highest maximum resource.

There are also some item sets that already mimic the latter resource to dispense as the latter damage like Sunderflame, Red Mountain sets.