Competitive MagDK dps: Fun while it lasted

msalvia

Wasn't it great having a few months where magDK could roll in PvE without getting heckled? But given that our toolbox is mostly DoTs--and DoTs are on the chopping block--its back to being a pure pvp class. Hooray for class diversity! /s

Joxer61

how so? things are being brought in line, across the board,
with all classes? Don't think DK got singled out.....could be wrong.

msalvia

Look at the changes to the DK class and tell me how that's "brought in line"? Problem is, the ways sorc, templar and NB are being brought "in line" is to make them a little less overpowered. To bring DK "in line" they're making it crap again (as it's been since i started playing). There is not a single positive thing about the changes to DK--other classes have positives balancing out the negatives.

Sanguinor2

msalvia wrote: »

Wasn't it great having a few months where magDK could roll in PvE without getting heckled? But given that our toolbox is mostly DoTs--and DoTs are on the chopping block--its back to being a pure pvp class. Hooray for class diversity! /s

Magdk was never competitive while working as intended because it could not Keep up with stamdps while taking a melee spot, only time they were competitive was the 1 week were molten Whip was bugged.

msalvia

I've seen a lot of parse #s (including my own) and since the DK damage buffs I pretty consistently hit 45k (not ridiculously high, but certainly respectable). It's not truly "competitive," but at least I can join a trial without getting heckled out right now. Looks like it's gonna take a hit this patch though...

Sanguinor2

msalvia wrote: »

I've seen a lot of parse #s (including my own) and since the DK damage buffs I pretty consistently hit 45k (not ridiculously high, but certainly respectable). It's not truly "competitive," but at least I can join a trial without getting heckled out right now. Looks like it's gonna take a hit this patch though...

No it wasnt unplayable or something, but that doesnt make it competitve, or perhaps we just have different interpretations of what makes a class competitve.

msalvia

[/quote]

No it wasnt unplayable or something, but that doesnt make it competitve, or perhaps we just have different interpretations of what makes a class competitve.[/quote]

Probably true. My definition is "can I survive, do the mechanics, and put out 40k." But I know I'm not representative of anyone else though; I'm garbage with the best stam class (stamblade), so while the class is competitive, I'm not!

irstarkey57

Eruption costing 5500 or whatever it is and getting a 37 percent damage decrease it absolutely ridiculous. meanwhile Liquid Lightning costs 2k less and is arguably more powerful. I truly don't understand it. It's like they finally worked the dk up to make it just close enough to being doable in trials again.....*** NOPE. Unbelieveable. Not only that but all our skills went up in cost. People won't even run eruption anymore i bet. It is already the first skill you dump in your rotation when sustain gets rough, so yea. I do 55k on 6m dummy and 80k on the raid dummy. Not the highest in game but pretty decent. Throwing that out there just in case i get the you don't know how to play the class trolls. I also pvp with this class at 1100 mag recovery. that will prob change : /

Banana

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Eruption costing 5500 or whatever it is and getting a 37 percent damage decrease it absolutely ridiculous. meanwhile Liquid Lightning costs 2k less and is arguably more powerful. I truly don't understand it. It's like they finally worked the dk up to make it just close enough to being doable in trials again.....*** NOPE. Unbelieveable. Not only that but all our skills went up in cost. People won't even run eruption anymore i bet. It is already the first skill you dump in your rotation when sustain gets rough, so yea. I do 55k on 6m dummy and 80k on the raid dummy. Not the highest in game but pretty decent. Throwing that out there just in case i get the you don't know how to play the class trolls. I also pvp with this class at 1100 mag recovery. that will prob change : /

Do we substitute fire rune instead now?

red_emu

THIS IS A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT FROM DEVS (at least in my head)

Just stop! Please just stop playing "as you like". Stop the whole diverse builds nonsense. Stop being creative with the game!

YOU SHOULD ONLY EVER PLAY AS ZOS TELLS YOU TO PLAY. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PLAY AS YOU LIKE.

Vildebill

Banana wrote: »

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Eruption costing 5500 or whatever it is and getting a 37 percent damage decrease it absolutely ridiculous. meanwhile Liquid Lightning costs 2k less and is arguably more powerful. I truly don't understand it. It's like they finally worked the dk up to make it just close enough to being doable in trials again.....*** NOPE. Unbelieveable. Not only that but all our skills went up in cost. People won't even run eruption anymore i bet. It is already the first skill you dump in your rotation when sustain gets rough, so yea. I do 55k on 6m dummy and 80k on the raid dummy. Not the highest in game but pretty decent. Throwing that out there just in case i get the you don't know how to play the class trolls. I also pvp with this class at 1100 mag recovery. that will prob change : /

Do we substitute fire rune instead now?

Yeah fire rune sure looks interesting.

And for the topic, I've given up on giving feedback for the MagDK for PvE DPS. The devs couldn't care less about the MagDK for DPS it seems.

Massacre_Wurm

Competitive magden and magcro dps. Fun while it.... Oh , wait.

I dont see any big nerfs outside of dots. And this is affecting everyone.

Evito

MagDK wasn't competitive.

Neither was magsorc, and that was the top dog for magicka builds.

Seraphayel

I don't really see why this affects MagDK more than any other build. Yes, you've been relying on DoTs but every build has. AoE DoTs get nerfed, ST DoTs get buffed, for everyone. Searing Strike's DoT got buffed by 26%. On top of that MagDKs might get two new DoTs (like everybody else), Destructive Touch and Scalding Rune. Don't really see the "huge" DK nerf you're seeing. Maybe the cost increases, but that's about it.

Flama_Blama

DKs are getting nerfed due to the nerf on seething fury.
With regards to the effect of DOT changes I will reserve judgement till after testing.

JumpmanLane

Flama_Blama wrote: »

DKs are getting nerfed due to the nerf on seething fury.
With regards to the effect of DOT changes I will reserve judgement till after testing.

What I don’t get is this. Someone comes up with the idea for molten whip, seething fury, whatever. It’s a completely unintuitive means of playing MagDk (spamming dots no one would consider spamming just to build bursty stacks). Proof no dev plays MagDk at a high level. If they did, they never would have thought up Molten Whip at all.

Never mind that the crap was bugged for a bit and made such a silly playstyle WORTH IT...and they “fixed it.” PLEASE forget that StamDK’s were slotting whip on BOTH BARS just for the passives.

What I don’t get is the sudden aversion to players SPAMMING dots, so much so that they INCREASE the cost of the very dots you’d spam to ultimately PROC Molten Whip; but, further they REDUCE the damage of Molten’s stacks. Uh...WHY?

Now Molten Whip, which was trash from a playstyle perspective, is now just a trash skill period.

You can not CONVINCE ME that any dev plays MAGICKA DRAGONKNIGHT AT ALL...much less plays it well.

Personally, I don’t care because I didn’t use that trash anyways; but come on. They expect us to pay money for all this? If I came up with some crap like this work I would have BEEN fired. Lmao.

themaddaedra

mAgDk GoT gUtTeD

Templar

Spear Shards:
Decreased cost of this ability and its morphs to 3024 from 3240.
Decreased the DoT damage of Spear Shards and Luminous by approximately 37% per tick, and Blazing Spear by approximately 42% per tick.

Solar Barrage (morph): Decreased the damage of this morph by approximately 33% per tick.

NB

Teleport Strike:
Lotus Fan (morph): Decreased the damage per tick of the DoT by approximately 22%, and fixed an issue where the final tick was not being affected by Minor Vulnerability.


Path of Darkness:
Twisting Path (morph): Decreased the damage per tick of this ability by approximately 14%.

Summon Shade: Increased the cost for this ability and its morphs to 4050 from 2700.
Dark Shade (morph): Reduced the damage per hit of Corrosive Flurry by approximately 9%. The area attack, Corrosive Slash, now deals the same damage as the normal attack, instead of dealing 20% bonus damage.

Sorcerer

Daedric Summoning
Conjured Ward:
Reduced the shield size of this ability and the Empowered Ward morph by approximately 18%, and increased the cost of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 4320 from 3510.

Summon Unstable Clannfear (morph): Reduced the healing granted from the special activation of this ability by approximately 14% to ensure it’s in line with other burst heal abilities, such as Rushed Ceremony or Dragon’s Blood.

Reduced the damage of the Winged Twilight and Twilight Matriarch by approximately 69% per hit.
Summon Twilight Tormentor (morph): Reduced the damage dealt by the Twilight’s Zap and Kick by approximately 35%. These attacks will now rank up in 1.1% damage per rank, rather than 5%.

Lightning Splash: Decreased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3024 from 3510, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 37%.

Pops_ND_Irish

Joxer61 wrote: »

how so? things are being brought in line, across the board,
with all classes? Don't think DK got singled out.....could be wrong.

But the whiners have blinders on !

TrinityBreaker

themaddaedra wrote: »

mAgDk GoT gUtTeD

Templar

Spear Shards:
Decreased cost of this ability and its morphs to 3024 from 3240.
Decreased the DoT damage of Spear Shards and Luminous by approximately 37% per tick, and Blazing Spear by approximately 42% per tick.

Solar Barrage (morph): Decreased the damage of this morph by approximately 33% per tick.

NB

Teleport Strike:
Lotus Fan (morph): Decreased the damage per tick of the DoT by approximately 22%, and fixed an issue where the final tick was not being affected by Minor Vulnerability.


Path of Darkness:
Twisting Path (morph): Decreased the damage per tick of this ability by approximately 14%.

Summon Shade: Increased the cost for this ability and its morphs to 4050 from 2700.
Dark Shade (morph): Reduced the damage per hit of Corrosive Flurry by approximately 9%. The area attack, Corrosive Slash, now deals the same damage as the normal attack, instead of dealing 20% bonus damage.

Sorcerer

Daedric Summoning
Conjured Ward:
Reduced the shield size of this ability and the Empowered Ward morph by approximately 18%, and increased the cost of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 4320 from 3510.

Summon Unstable Clannfear (morph): Reduced the healing granted from the special activation of this ability by approximately 14% to ensure it’s in line with other burst heal abilities, such as Rushed Ceremony or Dragon’s Blood.

Reduced the damage of the Winged Twilight and Twilight Matriarch by approximately 69% per hit.
Summon Twilight Tormentor (morph): Reduced the damage dealt by the Twilight’s Zap and Kick by approximately 35%. These attacks will now rank up in 1.1% damage per rank, rather than 5%.

Lightning Splash: Decreased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3024 from 3510, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 37%.

Ardent Flame
Combustion: Decreased the cooldown from this passive to 2 seconds from 5 seconds. This was done to help alleviate many of the duration-based ability cost increases, as well as helping this passive synergize with more build customization such as using the Charged trait.
Fiery Breath:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2808 from 2700.
Decreased the DoT damage per tick by approximately 15%.
Lava Whip:
Molten Whip (morph): Reduced the stacking Spell Damage bonus from this passive to 75 at Rank IV from 125.
Searing Strike:
Fixed an issue where the visual effects from this ability and its morphs would fail to apply if the target was blocking.
Increased cost to 2160 from 1350.
Increased the DoT damage by approximately 26% per tick.
Earthen Heart
Ash Cloud:
Decreased the healing of this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.
Increased the cost of all morphs to 5670 from 4590.
Cinder Storm (morph): This morph is now 50% stronger than the base ability, which will result in an approximate 1% heal reduction comparatively.
Eruption (morph): Reduced the damage over time by approximately 30% per tick.
Petrify:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 4050 from 2970.
This ability no longer ranks up in cost reduction, but instead ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.
Reduced the range of this ability and its morphs to 7 meters from 8 meters.
Shattering Rocks (morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this ability was missing a previous rank up, which will result in an approximate 3% increase in the healing.

These nerfs are quite costly on a class with garbage minigame sustain, not mention being kicked while down by decreasing the abysmal damage (like every other clsss). Please remember to be constructive and actually think before posting stuff in the future.

JumpmanLane

Combustion ain’t bad. IF you forget about Molten and run flamelash. You’ll have time to sneak a heavy in on trash players but you’d be wiser to just go lash powerlash or lash leap powerlash and assume you’re fighting 1.5 @Sypher lol, someone who knows MagDk inside out, someone who knows what YOU’RE gonna do on a MagDk before you do it, someone who is up out and gone before you powerlash. Combustion will help.

Embers and Engulfing’s cost increase are indeed nerfs if you try to use the very much now trash (and NERFED) Molten. (That crap only worked when it was broke ANYWAYS lol. They “FIXED” it hehehehe).

Raising the cost of Fossilize...hmmm...not something you’d actually spam...might bear testing but an increase IS a nerf...

MagDk wasn’t gutted but Molten Whip was. Reducing the damage of dots uh WHY?

I can’t think of anything else funny to say about it all because it gets less funny the more I think about it.

StShoot

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Combustion ain’t bad. IF you forget about Molten and run flamelash. You’ll have time to sneak a heavy in on trash players but you’d be wiser to just go lash powerlash or lash leap powerlash and assume you’re fighting 1.5 @Sypher lol, someone who knows MagDk inside out, someone who knows what YOU’RE gonna do on a MagDk before you do it, someone who is up out and gone before you powerlash. Combustion will help.

Embers and Engulfing’s cost increase are indeed nerfs if you try to use the very much now trash (and NERFED) Molten. (That crap only worked when it was broke ANYWAYS lol. They “FIXED” it hehehehe).

Raising the cost of Fossilize...hmmm...not something you’d actually spam...might bear testing but an increase IS a nerf...

MagDk wasn’t gutted but Molten Whip was. Reducing the damage of dots uh WHY?

I can’t think of anything else funny to say about it all because it gets less funny the more I think about it.

Combustion wont help. That skill sucks in pvp and its nothing you want to rely on in pve. its nearly impossible to get the burning stat every 2 seconds even if you build for it, even if you use a charged weapon. Moreover pls remember that there is a whole race lurking in cyrodiil that is actual imune against the burning effekt which makes this passive unreliable af.

Yesterday night i tried to procc that thing every two seconds ( i used double charged weapons, all flame dmg, bsw ) and managed to do it once in 10 mins of testing, well bad luck i guess. That said it was a dummy so no cloak, no purge at the same time i lost so much dps just because i had to use two charged weapons

They should have doubled the ressource return you get from that passive instead of reducing the procc cooldown

To the OP the last time mag dk was competetive in Pve was before Morrowind. The only thing that could bring the dk back into the current Meta would be an class execute and a huge sustain buff. But what we got is quite the opposide, we got huge sustain nerfs, no real dmg buff and we still have no passive or active execute.

Sanguinor2

For PvE simply replace all class dots you can with non class dots, that seems to be the Goal of this update, you dont Need engulfing in single target because the tank will use it anyway and you can drop Eruption for sure, this obviously depends on the values of the non class dots, but if they end up better then just get rid of all your class dots, great solution that really helps diversity Right?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

On top of that MagDKs might get two new DoTs (like everybody else), Destructive Touch and Scalding Rune.

3 single target dots, entropy, soul trap, touch and rune is going to be balanced as an AOE dot.

. Eruption costing 5500 or whatever it is and getting a 37 percent damage decrease it absolutely ridiculous. meanwhile Liquid Lightning costs 2k less and is arguably more powerful.

LL lasts for 12 seconds and is going to cost 3024, eruption is going to last for 18 seconds and cost 5670 and also do AOE damage on cast. The damage/cost is about the same.

OrphanHelgen

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Eruption costing 5500 or whatever it is and getting a 37 percent damage decrease it absolutely ridiculous. meanwhile Liquid Lightning costs 2k less and is arguably more powerful. I truly don't understand it. It's like they finally worked the dk up to make it just close enough to being doable in trials again.....*** NOPE. Unbelieveable. Not only that but all our skills went up in cost. People won't even run eruption anymore i bet. It is already the first skill you dump in your rotation when sustain gets rough, so yea. I do 55k on 6m dummy and 80k on the raid dummy. Not the highest in game but pretty decent. Throwing that out there just in case i get the you don't know how to play the class trolls. I also pvp with this class at 1100 mag recovery. that will prob change : /

Is that with siroria you get 55k 6 mill? and drain? I got 53k I think with false god and drain.

OrphanHelgen

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

For PvE simply replace all class dots you can with non class dots, that seems to be the Goal of this update, you dont Need engulfing in single target because the tank will use it anyway and you can drop Eruption for sure, this obviously depends on the values of the non class dots, but if they end up better then just get rid of all your class dots, great solution that really helps diversity Right?

burning embers and rest mages guild skills XD

msalvia

Pops_ND_Irish wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

how so? things are being brought in line, across the board,
with all classes? Don't think DK got singled out.....could be wrong.

But the whiners have blinders on !

Contribute meaningful / thoughtful analysis? Nah, a flippant post will due.

msalvia

To everyone claiming this is "just" a dot nerf and effects all dps classes evenly: false. MagDK's toolkit is almost all DoT pressure. We have crappy burst damage, no execute, no mobility etc. So this change is not gonna impact classes equally.

The sky isn't falling, but it's intellectually dishonest to say these nerfs aren't hittng magdk harder than other mag classes.

luen79rwb17_ESO

So I managed to play 3 times on my magdk with the changes in Elsweyr. Guess that's gonna change again LOL.

Vercingetorix

The only class that walked away relatively unscathed was Templar. Everybody else either got nerfed in to the ground, had their problems ignored, or a combination of both:

Necromancers still don't have Major Sorcery and have a clunky Flame Skull animation.
Sorcerers got bent over hard by the patch notes this time around.
Nightblades' DoTs got hit by the nerf hammer.
Dragonknights' already high resource costs were increased and their damage got nerfed.
Magicka Wardens were an endangered species last year, now they are effectively extinct.

OrphanHelgen

Vercingetorix wrote: »

The only class that walked away relatively unscathed was Templar. Everybody else either got nerfed in to the ground, had their problems ignored, or a combination of both:

Necromancers still don't have Major Sorcery and have a clunky Flame Skull animation.
Sorcerers got bent over hard by the patch notes this time around.
Nightblades' DoTs got hit by the nerf hammer.
Dragonknights' already high resource costs were increased and their damage got nerfed.
Magicka Wardens were an endangered species last year, now they are effectively extinct.

Mag dk's use major sorcery pots anyway.
The sorc's got nerfed yes unless you wanna hardcast frag XD.
Al though they did buff force pulls which many sorcs use to proc frag so u have to look at it like that as well just mentioning .

Sanguinor2

Vercingetorix wrote: »

The only class that walked away relatively unscathed was Templar. Everybody else either got nerfed in to the ground, had their problems ignored, or a combination of both:

Necromancers still don't have Major Sorcery and have a clunky Flame Skull animation.
Sorcerers got bent over hard by the patch notes this time around.
Nightblades' DoTs got hit by the nerf hammer.
Dragonknights' already high resource costs were increased and their damage got nerfed.
Magicka Wardens were an endangered species last year, now they are effectively extinct.

Templars got a 42% and 33% Damage nerf respectively to their 2 main dots which they still will have to Slot because of secondary effects, lost Sustain because of the new cost reduction calculation and got cost increase on ritual so idk About Walking away unscathed.
And in PvP nearly everyone will have Major Evasion now, so melee templar deals 25% less dmg to nearly everyone now yay.