[Spoiler] Grahtwood orrery alliance quest - it makes no sense

Dusk_Coven

They expect the Orrery to do a particular thing with respect to Queen Ayrenn.
But it hasn't worked in centuries, no one has seen it "operational", so how can they expect it to do anything specific at all?

Someone explain this particular story arc to me please.

worrallj

ZOS told them.

SirAndy

worrallj wrote: »

ZOS told them.

Robo_Hobo

They've heard legends of what it can do from when it was operational and their expectations of what it will do come from those - whether how much truth is from those legends though, they can't be sure, but they're apparently willing to take the risk.

Despite it not being operational for a long time, people with certain skillsets were able to figure out what would need to be done for it to be operational, theoretically. A large part in why it hasn't been operational is because of the things needed for it to work - namely the heart of Anumaril, its inventor, which had been lost for a long time and only theorized to be where you find it in the quests only recently.

cynicalbutterfly

I find the whole thing pretty funny. 'Let's put this machine that we have no idea how it works or what it's supposed to do back together after centuries of inactivity and then let's put the most important person to the alliance in it so we can find out what happens.' Sounds like a solid plan....

Enokariel

In fact it is just the opposite: "To win the agreement of the Bosmer, she has to undergo this treatment, even though it is dangerous, to be accepted as the ruler, she is supposed to be."
The story of AD is about the forging of the alliance and Ayrenn getting accepted by her subjects.

Dusk_Coven

Enokariel wrote: »

In fact it is just the opposite: "To win the agreement of the Bosmer, she has to undergo this treatment, even though it is dangerous, to be accepted as the ruler, she is supposed to be."
The story of AD is about the forging of the alliance and Ayrenn getting accepted by her subjects.

Right, but the procedure is at best theoretical because they are using hacks to get it working, which should also make results suspect.

worrallj

cynicalbutterfly wrote: »

I find the whole thing pretty funny. 'Let's put this machine that we have no idea how it works or what it's supposed to do back together after centuries of inactivity and then let's put the most important person to the alliance in it so we can find out what happens.' Sounds like a solid plan....

There's a lot of story telling in ESO where as a player I'm kinda like "well ok, but just so you know I'm taking a lot on faith here."

Korah_Eaglecry

I remember thinking to myself during the quest that the Orrey had to be the stupidest thing the Aylieds got around to making. How bored do you have to be to create a device that does the job the Orrey performs?

Meanwhile hundreds of years later the Aldmeri Dominion is like "this is perfect! itll totally fix this very specific issue we are having about deciding if our Queen can be our Alliances leader!"

Honestly it was a great example of lazy story writing and par for the course questing for a generic MMO. On the surface the idea that some of the Veiled Heritance had escaped prosecution, after their failure on Auridon, seemed like a great way to continue the AD storyline. But once you really dive into the work of making a coherent story about racist militants escaping capture and making trouble in a land where they think theyre racially better than everyone. Its kind of obvious that it wasnt really going to work. So they went with shoving a mcguffin into the story that does nothing of real value. Its not a weapon that can win the AD the war, its not a device that can solve world hunger or cure disease. It just confirms if the user is pure of heart or some *** and turns those who arent into literal monsters....

Dusk_Coven

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I remember thinking to myself during the quest that the Orrey had to be the stupidest thing the Aylieds got around to making. How bored do you have to be to create a device that does the job the Orrey performs?

It's not even an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrery
Since when does a model of the solar system (if Nirnians even believe there are other planets out there?) zap anybody?

cynicalbutterfly

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

It's not even an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrery
Since when does a model of the solar system (if Nirnians even believe there are other planets out there?) zap anybody?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was originally made to be a prank...
'Trust me, it'll show you the stars! Just get in...'

Enokariel

We do not know what it was intended to do by the Ayleids, even how they called it... but in fact if it really worked as is now supposed to it will be a VERY usefull device even today.
Why?
Because it shows if a politician really has some desired and needed qualities. Even today you vote for a politician and do not know if he is lying or telling what he really thinks. If he is really honest. This device should answer this crucial question for you. I think it is really usefull.

ChunkyCat

How is John McLane not dead by the middle of the movie?!

cynicalbutterfly

ChunkyCat wrote: »

How is John McLane not dead by the middle of the movie?!

More importantly, why didn't he ever call his wife back! All those years wasted over something small lol

Korah_Eaglecry

Enokariel wrote: »

We do not know what it was intended to do by the Ayleids, even how they called it... but in fact if it really worked as is now supposed to it will be a VERY usefull device even today.
Why?
Because it shows if a politician really has some desired and needed qualities. Even today you vote for a politician and do not know if he is lying or telling what he really thinks. If he is really honest. This device should answer this crucial question for you. I think it is really usefull.

Its useless. The AD citizens are not living in a democratic society. They have monarchs and religious leaders running the show, not politicians. It doesnt matter if their moral compass is broken or not because they are in charge. And its not as if the other leaders within the Alliance are going to jump ship if Aryenn wasnt pure of heart. The Altmer presence in both Valenwood and Elsweyr is beneficial and provides those two races a larger voice in the overall conflict for the Ruby Throne. The Mane and King Camoran would be absolute morons to reject her and her offer when they share a border with the war torn province of Cyrodiil and they have Imperial Legions running amok on their northern borders.

The Orrery is nothing more than a mcguffin added in to wrap up a poorly thought out storyline where Veiled Heritance holdouts somehow survived the failed coup in Auridon and was still active in Grahtwood after losing the bulk of their support and leadership.

kaisernick

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Enokariel wrote: »

We do not know what it was intended to do by the Ayleids, even how they called it... but in fact if it really worked as is now supposed to it will be a VERY usefull device even today.
Why?
Because it shows if a politician really has some desired and needed qualities. Even today you vote for a politician and do not know if he is lying or telling what he really thinks. If he is really honest. This device should answer this crucial question for you. I think it is really usefull.

Its useless. The AD citizens are not living in a democratic society. They have monarchs and religious leaders running the show, not politicians. It doesnt matter if their moral compass is broken or not because they are in charge. And its not as if the other leaders within the Alliance are going to jump ship if Aryenn wasnt pure of heart. The Altmer presence in both Valenwood and Elsweyr is beneficial and provides those two races a larger voice in the overall conflict for the Ruby Throne. The Mane and King Camoran would be absolute morons to reject her and her offer when they share a border with the war torn province of Cyrodiil and they have Imperial Legions running amok on their northern borders.

The Orrery is nothing more than a mcguffin added in to wrap up a poorly thought out storyline where Veiled Heritance holdouts somehow survived the failed coup in Auridon and was still active in Grahtwood after losing the bulk of their support and leadership.

The bosmer have not always been united under a king in fact wee though out valenwood that some bosmer are not part of the dominion its possible that the people may not trust the dominion and if their king tried to force it they may rebel againt his leadership (remmember at that time the green lady and the silvenar are dead) so they only have his word to go on and yes the device is kind of pointless i do think she should have proven herself a different way but without their spirital leaders the bosmer have only the word of a king to go on.

DrowElfMorwen

Not to mention having the PC do a lot of the important work... seems like a task better suited for trusted wood elves or Altmer...

Korah_Eaglecry

kaisernick wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Enokariel wrote: »

We do not know what it was intended to do by the Ayleids, even how they called it... but in fact if it really worked as is now supposed to it will be a VERY usefull device even today.
Why?
Because it shows if a politician really has some desired and needed qualities. Even today you vote for a politician and do not know if he is lying or telling what he really thinks. If he is really honest. This device should answer this crucial question for you. I think it is really usefull.

Its useless. The AD citizens are not living in a democratic society. They have monarchs and religious leaders running the show, not politicians. It doesnt matter if their moral compass is broken or not because they are in charge. And its not as if the other leaders within the Alliance are going to jump ship if Aryenn wasnt pure of heart. The Altmer presence in both Valenwood and Elsweyr is beneficial and provides those two races a larger voice in the overall conflict for the Ruby Throne. The Mane and King Camoran would be absolute morons to reject her and her offer when they share a border with the war torn province of Cyrodiil and they have Imperial Legions running amok on their northern borders.

The Orrery is nothing more than a mcguffin added in to wrap up a poorly thought out storyline where Veiled Heritance holdouts somehow survived the failed coup in Auridon and was still active in Grahtwood after losing the bulk of their support and leadership.

The bosmer have not always been united under a king in fact wee though out valenwood that some bosmer are not part of the dominion its possible that the people may not trust the dominion and if their king tried to force it they may rebel againt his leadership (remmember at that time the green lady and the silvenar are dead) so they only have his word to go on and yes the device is kind of pointless i do think she should have proven herself a different way but without their spirital leaders the bosmer have only the word of a king to go on.

There is only one instance in Valenwood during ESO that we see a pushback against the current leadership in Grahtwood on the part of the Bosmer themselves, and its the same clan that was pushing for rebellion prior to the game. They are swiftly and, might I say, quite easily mopped up by the Vestige before they can even get their movement going again. When the Vestige shows up, they're already cordoned off because of a standoff with Aldmeri Dominion troops. So even if the Vestige hadnt become involved, its unlikely the rebellion would have gone farther than there.

Most of the Dominions issues in Valenwood revolve around remnants of the Veiled Heritance and a psychotic ex-boyfriend going full on stalker- murderer on the new Green Lady.

The leadership of the Bosmer, including the future Silvenar, and the leadership of the Khajiit are pro-Dominion. What we end up facing off against in that region, aside from the actual threat that is the Veiled Heritance, is minor movements that are more like road bumps to the solidification of the Dominion than anything else. Remember, the Dominion at that point is maybe 1-2 years old, and there is still an internal debate over where certain powers and authority lie. That does not mean the Dominion is suddenly going to come falling apart.