justice system needs rework

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Darkandsinful
Darkandsinful
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It's not right that you can't do quests without racking up thousands of gold in fines or to be killed on site. sorcerers summon demons yet they don't get fined for just doing a damn quest. And no they should not be nerfed. Numerous quests have you kill in front of guards even if you are helping the guards you get a bounty. that is just BS and needs to go away or be fixed
  • Enemoriana
    Enemoriana
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    Summoning daedra isn't illegal, until you use it for illegal things or lose control. Even Vanus Galerion do it.

    And what is the problem? There are quite a lot of skills you can use in quest fights. They are not difficult, so even no need in most effective skills. And even not all necromantic skills are illegal. Why not use legal and weapon skills?
    PC EU, @Enemoriana. Ru.
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  • Darkandsinful
    Darkandsinful
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    Enemoriana wrote: »
    Summoning daedra isn't illegal, until you use it for illegal things or lose control. Even Vanus Galerion do it.

    And what is the problem? There are quite a lot of skills you can use in quest fights. They are not difficult, so even no need in most effective skills. And even not all necromantic skills are illegal. Why not use legal and weapon skills?

    so your argument is i have to change out my skills and play basically another class because i never know when im going to get nailed with a fight that may or may not get me killed by the people im helping.
  • Viscous119
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    It's not right that you can't do quests without racking up thousands of gold in fines or to be killed on site. sorcerers summon demons yet they don't get fined for just doing a damn quest. And no they should not be nerfed. Numerous quests have you kill in front of guards even if you are helping the guards you get a bounty. that is just BS and needs to go away or be fixed

    Learn to manage your criminal act skills while in a city or around NPC people it's just that simple. Its YOUR FAULT if you can't manage your skillbar.
  • Enemoriana
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    so your argument is i have to change out my skills and play basically another class because i never know when im going to get nailed with a fight that may or may not get me killed by the people im helping.

    You don't know when you are going to do quests? And there is big red "criminal act" in description of skills. What "never know" are you speaking?
    And it is only 5 necromantic skills with 18 total - 3 usual and 2 ultimate. Less than 1/3. And it was known long before release that some necromantic skills will give bounty.
    Even light attacks + flame skull (not criminal act!) + some healing is enough for nearly all quest fights.
    PC EU, @Enemoriana. Ru.
    Houses: Erstwhile Sanctuary as actual Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, Hunter's Glade as werewolf tavern (downstairs), Strident Springs Demesne as adventurer's house.
    Wishlist: Furnishing Pack: Haunted Housewares, atronach trader, attunable stations (have 21/80 sets collected), molten war torte and white gold war torte recipes.
  • Deloth_Vyrr
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    As has been said. There is nothing technically illegal about Daedric summoning in Elder Scrolls lore so long as you don't use said Daedra for nefarious purposes. Necromancy on the other hand is illegal to even study in most provinces, let alone perform.

    And what most folks do is keep 1 of their bars set up with no moves that are a criminal act, and just use that bar when questing somewhere where you could get in trouble. To answer your question, yes it is intended that you have to "hide" the fact that you are a Necromancer when you are out in public. That's why the whole criminal act mechanic was added to those abilities, to prevent you from using those abilities in towns and other public areas.
    Edited by Deloth_Vyrr on July 6, 2019 4:23AM
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  • Darkandsinful
    Darkandsinful
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    do you even have a necromancer?r it's not just in the city that gets you bounties it's around NPC's in general even quest npc's when your on a damn quest in a solo instance.. Zone quests should not give you bounties in solo instances because your playing the class, Your commenting on things you don't even know about
  • Enemoriana
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    do you even have a necromancer?r it's not just in the city that gets you bounties it's around NPC's in general even quest npc's when your on a damn quest in a solo instance.. Zone quests should not give you bounties in solo instances because your playing the class, Your commenting on things you don't even know about

    Yes, I have necromancer. And no problems with bounties. Because, you know, "criminal act" in descriptions and a lot of other skills.
    PC EU, @Enemoriana. Ru.
    Houses: Erstwhile Sanctuary as actual Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, Hunter's Glade as werewolf tavern (downstairs), Strident Springs Demesne as adventurer's house.
    Wishlist: Furnishing Pack: Haunted Housewares, atronach trader, attunable stations (have 21/80 sets collected), molten war torte and white gold war torte recipes.
  • idk
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    Viscous119 wrote: »

    Learn to manage your criminal act skills while in a city or around NPC people it's just that simple. Its YOUR FAULT if you can't manage your skillbar.

    This. Further, I cannot recall a quest where I needed my necro summons and I got fined for doing so. I am not saying I have not been fined for using some necro summons in the wrong places, but not while I was on a quest.
  • Bekkael
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    It's not right that you can't do quests without racking up thousands of gold in fines or to be killed on site. sorcerers summon demons yet they don't get fined for just doing a damn quest. And no they should not be nerfed. Numerous quests have you kill in front of guards even if you are helping the guards you get a bounty. that is just BS and needs to go away or be fixed

    I found the bounties such a nuisance that I just took all those skills off both of my bars while leveling my Necro except my smash ultimate, and I only use my ulti when I know I won't get in trouble for it. I find the whole class kind of a disappointment tbh, and a huge double standard to make Necro get bounties when sorcs don't.

    Since my Necro is also CP 810 now, I don't plan to play her anymore. Just not worth the hassle to me, and some class skills are still bugged. Definitely a personal preference thing, and my preference is for the other classes that can use ALL their skills without getting attacked or having to pay for it with gold. YMMV.
    ~~ Lady Gamer ~~ ♥ ~~ Xbox NA ~~
  • Deloth_Vyrr
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    Bekkael wrote: »
    I found the bounties such a nuisance that I just took all those skills off both of my bars while leveling my Necro except my smash ultimate, and I only use my ulti when I know I won't get in trouble for it. I find the whole class kind of a disappointment tbh, and a huge double standard to make Necro get bounties when sorcs don't.

    Since my Necro is also CP 810 now, I don't plan to play her anymore. Just not worth the hassle to me, and some class skills are still bugged. Definitely a personal preference thing, and my preference is for the other classes that can use ALL their skills without getting attacked or having to pay for it with gold. YMMV.

    If you think its a double standard you don't understand Elder Scrolls lore I'm afraid. Which is fine, but if you read the posts in this thread you'll learn there is no double standard in class design. It follows the lore perfectly fine, one is illegal, the other is not.
    Edited by Deloth_Vyrr on July 6, 2019 4:39AM
    <Twin-Moons Covenant> PC NA
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    Voice of Reason
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    Flawless Conqueror
  • Attackfrog
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    I find the criminal act of some necro skills really engaging. I have to be mindful of my skills when doing a combat quest in town or around guards....I can't just spam my dps rotation.

    This is one thing that makes this game feel like a unique ES game.

    It's does *** me off sometimes...but I don't want it removed. I like being able to "f*** up" in town and having a consequence for careless gameplay.
    "You can have fun or you can have safety, but you can't have them both"
    -A ten-year-old
  • Darkandsinful
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    i don't have problem with getting a bounty in the cities. you click the spell that is on you. but when your doing for example the rivenspire quest where you name the new queen and go to doomcrag. and you kill the bad guy yet everybody there puts a damn bounty on your head. thats not right. and it's not just that quest. i've encountered it at least once in every zone.where one of the npc's you fight with freaks out
  • Bekkael
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    If you think its a double standard you don't understand Elder Scrolls lore I'm afraid. Which is fine, but if you read the posts in this thread you'll learn there is no double standard in class design. It follows the lore perfectly fine, one is illegal, the other is not.

    I'm all for lore, but not when it interferes with gameplay enjoyment. There are plenty of things that get handwaved, but if they want to be sticklers just for Necro, fine by me. I'm not upset about it. I know lots of people enjoy the class, and that's great, it's just not my particular cup of tea.
    ~~ Lady Gamer ~~ ♥ ~~ Xbox NA ~~
  • Korah_Eaglecry
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    As has been said. There is nothing technically illegal about Daedric summoning in Elder Scrolls lore so long as you don't use said Daedra for nefarious purposes. Necromancy on the other hand is illegal to even study in most provinces, let alone perform.

    And what most folks do is keep 1 of their bars set up with no moves that are a criminal act, and just use that bar when questing somewhere where you could get in trouble. To answer your question, yes it is intended that you have to "hide" the fact that you are a Necromancer when you are out in public. That's why the whole criminal act mechanic was added to those abilities, to prevent you from using those abilities in towns and other public areas.

    It might not be illegal, but Id wager that it would be extremely socially unacceptable to run around with all your daedra hanging out. We get away with a lot of it because we are the Vestige or whatever powerful hero we might be in these games. But considering the overall aversion towards daedra and the attitudes directed at the races with religions revolving around daedra, have daedra within the pantheon or worship some sort of alien tree. Id say that youd probably get chased out of the town square if you decided to conjure even a minor minion like a scamp. And the town guard wouldnt lift a hand to defend you.

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  • Dracheimflug
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    If you think its a double standard you don't understand Elder Scrolls lore I'm afraid. Which is fine, but if you read the posts in this thread you'll learn there is no double standard in class design. It follows the lore perfectly fine, one is illegal, the other is not.

    Something can be lore friendly and still completely impractical in the context of a game. The lore with respect to necromancy rarely makes any sense anyway and is at best inconsistent. There are many quests involving summoning ancestor spirits that are treated as perfectly fine. In one of the early Stonefall quests we save the city by summoning one of the Brothers of Strife, who is an undead construct. No bounty and we are hailed as heroes.

    In the original games, Necromancy is often treated as illegal by Mage's guild laws rather than generally illegal. And the main justification for it being illegal seems to be Mannimarco, as if he or Molag Bal somehow benefit from any necromantic activity whatsoever.

    Meanwhile Daedra worship is typically portrayed as universally illegal, even if the Daedric lord in question is generally benign or helpful.
  • Tharonil
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    "Hey sir! Could you help me please with these silly........Oh noooooo! Ah necromancer!! Help!!....."

    I really hate these situations. This should not happen outside of towns
  • Fusozay
    Fusozay
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    It's not right that you can't do quests without racking up thousands of gold in fines or to be killed on site. sorcerers summon demons yet they don't get fined for just doing a damn quest. And no they should not be nerfed. Numerous quests have you kill in front of guards even if you are helping the guards you get a bounty. that is just BS and needs to go away or be fixed

    this one a necromancer. this one did all quest of main quest, dominion storyline, dark brotherhood and Thieves Guild. all groop dangeon quests.
    and this one have problems only once or twice. but with TG and DB passives - this one broke bounty easy.
    this one do some DB and TG quest - they give some helpfull stuff - sqroll on "- bounty" and poutions.

    this one use use mod "no acc stealing and casting" - usefull.
  • xaraan
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    I've done tons of quests on my necro's. 3 diff characters now. And never had problems with getting fined.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • barney2525
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    i don't have problem with getting a bounty in the cities. you click the spell that is on you. but when your doing for example the rivenspire quest where you name the new queen and go to doomcrag. and you kill the bad guy yet everybody there puts a damn bounty on your head. thats not right. and it's not just that quest. i've encountered it at least once in every zone.where one of the npc's you fight with freaks out



    It's no different than an NPC gives you a quest and you head out but decide to steal a snack on the way. Just because you are doing something heroic to save the town does not mean they are going to let you walk all over them and steal their stuff. Necro is illegal just like stealing. Pay attention to when and where you are using it - and choose Not to use it when it is not appropriate. When I'm leveling, I have one bar that has Only legal stuff and the other bar has some... Fun stuff .. on it. Around people, always have the first bar up. Never know when you might make a boo-boo and hit the wrong button.


    IMHO

    :#
  • stewhead2ub17_ESO
    stewhead2ub17_ESO
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    Maybe cavorting with the dead just isn't for you...
  • Browiseth
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    bUT mY iMmErSiOn

    never mind the fact getting frustrated over a contrived mechanic like this ends up ruining my immersion more since it takes me out of the game but OH WELL
    Edited by Browiseth on July 6, 2019 10:41AM
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    Spoiler
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    If you think its a double standard you don't understand Elder Scrolls lore I'm afraid.

    Come on. Get off your High Lore Armchair for a sec and use some brain.
    In Skyrim we could not even walk in towns with our weapons drawn. The guards and inhabitants would teach us a lecture straight away. In ESO we can walk around with summoned daedras ?
    It's just plain inconsistent and makes zero sense - lorewise or otherwise.

    I'm not saying necromancers should be able to do whatever they wish. I'm saying that sorcs should not be allowed to walk in towns with summoned daedras, that werewolves should not be allowed in towns, that you should be forced to manage your "vampire skin" when walking in towns, etc. I understand that all of this isn't easily compatible with the "MMO format", but it's all completely inconsistent as it is, nonetheless.

  • Browiseth
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    Come on. Get off your High Lore Armchair for a sec and use some brain.
    In Skyrim we could not even walk in towns with our weapons drawn. The guards and inhabitants would teach us a lecture straight away. In ESO we can walk around with summoned daedras ?
    It's just plain inconsistent and makes zero sense - lorewise or otherwise.

    I'm not saying necromancers should be able to do whatever they wish. I'm saying that sorcs should not be allowed to walk in towns with summoned daedras, that werewolves should not be allowed in towns, that you should be forced to manage your "vampire skin" when walking in towns, etc. I understand that all of this isn't easily compatible with the "MMO format", but it's all completely inconsistent as it is, nonetheless.

    in skyrim you can freely walk around with your weapon drawn in a town, what are you talking about. the npcs might comment on it, but you don't receive any repercussions
    Edited by Browiseth on July 6, 2019 11:14AM
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    Spoiler
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Browiseth wrote: »
    in skyrim you can freely walk around with your weapon drawn, what are you talking about

    Nope. Inhabitants make you negative remarks about it.

  • Browiseth
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    Nope. Inhabitants make you negative remarks about it.

    that's hardly a real gameplay consequence. especially if we compare it to receiving a bounty on using a necro ability in eso and becoming KoS

    hell i'm pretty sure you can sneakily kill an npc in skyrim and use a raise zombie spell on their corpse with npcs around and the AI doesn't react so if anything the necro bounty thing is actually less lore friendly lmao
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    Spoiler
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • AlnilamE
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    Browiseth wrote: »

    in skyrim you can freely walk around with your weapon drawn in a town, what are you talking about. the npcs might comment on it, but you don't receive any repercussions

    In Oblivion, that would trigger lower amity.
    The Moot Councillor
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Browiseth wrote: »

    that's hardly a real gameplay consequence.

    We're talking lore consistency here, not gameplay.

  • Browiseth
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    We're talking lore consistency here, not gameplay.

    why do they have to be seperate? the most immersive games have the lore service the gameplay in a natural and enjoyable way

    that's kinda the point of the story and the lore. to give context for you know...the game part of the game. the part that you play.
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    Spoiler
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Browiseth wrote: »
    why do they have to be seperate? the most immersive games have the lore service the gameplay in a natural and enjoyable way
    that's kinda the point of the story and the lore. to give context for you know...the game part of the game. the part that you play.

    I agree. I was just replying to those saying that the status of sorcs and necros are both consistent with the lore, just because daedras and revived cadavers are not technically the same thing. I just disagree with that. It's totally inconsistent with other Elder Scrolls games.

    That being said, I'm not for necromancy tolerance, but against sorc / werewolves / vampire tolerance :-)
    ZOS is totally inconsistent with all those, and probably more.
  • Browiseth
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    I agree. I was just replying to those saying that the status of sorcs and necros are both consistent with the lore, just because daedras and revived cadavers are not technically the same thing. I just disagree with that. It's totally inconsistent with other Elder Scrolls games.

    That being said, I'm not for necromancy tolerance, but against sorc / werewolves / vampire tolerance :-)
    ZOS is totally inconsistent with all those, and probably more.

    i dislike the necromancy bounty thing quite a lot, but if it were applied to more things in the game like werewolves or vampires - as you say, consistent - i'd be more accepting of it

    as is i can't see it as any more than a tacked on attempt to please the "lore" crowd
    Edited by Browiseth on July 6, 2019 11:46AM
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    Spoiler
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
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