Laundering and selling stolen items

Jaraal

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

The only difference is that it would also allow us to sell our green and white and not only try and get blues.

If I'm on a thieving run because I need a bit of gold, I'll pick up whatever I find. But once I reach the limit set by how many inventory slots I've got available, I'll start destroying lower-quality items so I can pick up higher-quality ones.

But you're right that thieving and fencing can get very boring. Sometimes I think the most enjoyable part of it-- aside from the occasionally purple item-- is seeing what the devs have dreamed up as "treasure," because some of the items are funny. But after you've had a chuckle over them a few times, even that gets old.

If you're on PC, this is where having a junk handling addon is helpful. I have all whites automatically filtered to the junk section, so I can destroy them all at once if I run out of space. Or sell them if I know I'm not going to be playing more that day, etc.

As far as boring goes..... it's never so for me. Because I usually make more in stolen and laundered motifs, furnishings, and furnishing plans than I do from the treasures. The excitement is in knowing you can steal a high six figure (or more) item at any moment.

SeaGtGruff

Another thing about the daily cap is that it's determined by the NUMBER of items fenced or laundered, not on their VALUE. If the cap were based on TOTAL VALUE fenced or laundered each day, that would make it more like TES games where any given merchant has a specific amount of funds for buying stuff from you, and once they've run out of money then you must wait for a day or so of game time before they have more money to buy your stuff with.

SeaGtGruff

Jaraal wrote: »

Because I usually make more in stolen and laundered motifs, furnishings, and furnishing plans than I do from the treasures.

I have a different priority, but that's okay-- neither approach is "right" or "wrong." What I do with stolen recipes and designs and motifs-- after I've laundered them-- is deposit them in a guild bank so other guild members can learn them. And if some guild member takes them and then sells them-- I guess that's okay with me, although I'd rather they'd left them for members who actually wanted to learn them.

On the other hand, if it's a rare motif then I might sell it in the guild store, but generally for what I think is a reasonable price.

And of course, if one of my other characters doesn't know that particular recipe or whatever yet, I'll store it in the bank or in a storage chest so they can retrieve it and learn it.

Kiralyn2000

For all the people saying "but I make more on furnishing plans/etc".... yes, you "make more", but it's gold transferred from other players. Not newly generated gold, which is what you get from killing mobs, fencing stolen goods, and selling trash loot to vendors. (oh, and quest rewards). So selling rare plans & furniture has little bearing on the topic of keeping inflation down by limiting the creation of new gold.

SeaGtGruff

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

For all the people saying "but I make more on furnishing plans/etc".... yes, you "make more", but it's gold transferred from other players. Not newly generated gold, which is what you get from killing mobs, fencing stolen goods, and selling trash loot to vendors. (oh, and quest rewards). So selling rare plans & furniture has little bearing on the topic of keeping inflation down by limiting the creation of new gold.

And don't forget about the thousands of gold that ZOS just gives away to the players each month just for logging in. Yep, ZOS is really concerned about keeping a tight lid on "new gold" getting pumped into the game's economy.

If I had more gold, you know what I'd do? I'd buy all of those really expensive homes, and actually spend money at those home furnishing merchants and other furnishing merchants, which is something I never do now. I would also spend money on doing complete re-specs of my characters, which is something I never do now. And, sure, I'd also spend some of it at guild traders to buy motif pages and expensive mats and stuff like that-- but that's something I already do now. So basically, if I had more "new gold" coming into my pocket each day, I'd be spending it on those "gold sinks" that are there to take gold back out of the game instead of it going into some other player's bank account.

Jaraal

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

For all the people saying "but I make more on furnishing plans/etc".... yes, you "make more", but it's gold transferred from other players. Not newly generated gold, which is what you get from killing mobs, fencing stolen goods, and selling trash loot to vendors. (oh, and quest rewards). So selling rare plans & furniture has little bearing on the topic of keeping inflation down by limiting the creation of new gold.

And don't forget about the thousands of gold that ZOS just gives away to the players each month just for logging in. Yep, ZOS is really concerned about keeping a tight lid on "new gold" getting pumped into the game's economy.

If I had more gold, you know what I'd do? I'd buy all of those really expensive homes, and actually spend money at those home furnishing merchants and other furnishing merchants, which is something I never do now. I would also spend money on doing complete re-specs of my characters, which is something I never do now. And, sure, I'd also spend some of it at guild traders to buy motif pages and expensive mats and stuff like that-- but that's something I already do now. So basically, if I had more "new gold" coming into my pocket each day, I'd be spending it on those "gold sinks" that are there to take gold back out of the game instead of it going into some other player's bank account.

Yep, I've spent millions on my houses, furnishing plans, and furnishing materials. And with many players (not me personally) trading gold for crowns with ZOS' blessing, I don't think the gold a very few dedicated thieves bring into the economy is going to make a whole lot of difference.

Druid40

500 item limit.

SeaGtGruff

I forgot to mention outfits. I have never spent any gold to apply an outfit style to my gear-- except once, when I needed to craft a Morag Tong item for a master writ, which was a waste because being able to convert an item to the Morag Tong style didn't count (which is a subject for another rant-- why buying a collector's edition lets you use a particular outfit style without having to find or buy the style motif pages for it, but you can't actually craft in that style until you acquire and use the motif pages). If I were able to more easily farm for "new gold" then I would be more inclined to start pumping gold into that endless gold sink known as "outfit styles." I'll bet that's the one gold sink that a lot of players pump most of their gold into.

MaleAmazon

1st rule of MMOs is: if it can be exploited, it will be exploited.

True, and the 2nd rule of MMOs is: If you can´t think of a way to exploit something, someone else probably has.

Kiralyn2000

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

And don't forget about the thousands of gold that ZOS just gives away to the players each month just for logging in. Yep, ZOS is really concerned about keeping a tight lid on "new gold" getting pumped into the game's economy.

This month's total possible gold is 11k. And given that 5k of that is the last day, and plenty of people skip at least one day a month, that's 6k (most of it in the last week, and there's good amounts of complaints about people missing too many days and losing the week 3 "good" reward.... )

Aaannnyway...

redlink1979

daemonios wrote: »

You may think "but I was never going to farm 140 blue items on one character, let alone several". But you can be sure someone would. 1st rule of MMOs is: if it can be exploited, it will be exploited.

Agree. It's fine as it is.

twev

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

And don't forget about the thousands of gold that ZOS just gives away to the players each month just for logging in. Yep, ZOS is really concerned about keeping a tight lid on "new gold" getting pumped into the game's economy.

This month's total possible gold is 11k. And given that 5k of that is the last day, and plenty of people skip at least one day a month, that's 6k (most of it in the last week, and there's good amounts of complaints about people missing too many days and losing the week 3 "good" reward.... )

Aaannnyway...

Yeah, they give away a lot of gold in the daily log-in reward.

But new players blow through a net total of gold leveling up inv and mounts, plus stuff bought in game that aren't bought with crowns or personally gotten from loot or quest/boss rewards.
So, much of the gold is syphoned right back out from newbs, and many/most vets either buy another house or just sit on it.

And a lot of the gold is tied up in dormant accounts, sometimes forever.

SeaGtGruff

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

And don't forget about the thousands of gold that ZOS just gives away to the players each month just for logging in. Yep, ZOS is really concerned about keeping a tight lid on "new gold" getting pumped into the game's economy.

This month's total possible gold is 11k. And given that 5k of that is the last day, and plenty of people skip at least one day a month, that's 6k (most of it in the last week, and there's good amounts of complaints about people missing too many days and losing the week 3 "good" reward.... )

Aaannnyway...

Yes, but the point is that ZOS are giving away free gold-- and occasionally free AP and TV. And it isn't to a few players, it's to all players... assuming they log in every day, or nearly so. So 11K "new gold" this month alone, times however many players are going to be logging in often enough this month to get all 11K of that gold, is how much "new gold" getting dumped into the game's economy?

Aaannnyway, as I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, because I hardly ever run up against my daily fencing limit as it is. In fact, I was fencing some loot last night and noticed that my daily limit is only 130 items, because I never bothered to invest the final skill point into that particular perk, because I didn't think it was worth it to spend another skill point on that perk, especially since I hardly ever fence 130 items in a day anymore.

I just think the argument about how increasing the fencing limit would topple the game's economy is kind of silly. There are so many gold sinks in this game that ZOS can give away free gold to millions of players (or however many there are) every month and the game economy hasn't been destroyed by it.

Salvas_Aren

Jaraal wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

The only difference is that it would also allow us to sell our green and white and not only try and get blues.

If I'm on a thieving run because I need a bit of gold, I'll pick up whatever I find. But once I reach the limit set by how many inventory slots I've got available, I'll start destroying lower-quality items so I can pick up higher-quality ones.

But you're right that thieving and fencing can get very boring. Sometimes I think the most enjoyable part of it-- aside from the occasionally purple item-- is seeing what the devs have dreamed up as "treasure," because some of the items are funny. But after you've had a chuckle over them a few times, even that gets old.

If you're on PC, this is where having a junk handling addon is helpful. I have all whites automatically filtered to the junk section, so I can destroy them all at once if I run out of space. Or sell them if I know I'm not going to be playing more that day, etc.

As far as boring goes..... it's never so for me. Because I usually make more in stolen and laundered motifs, furnishings, and furnishing plans than I do from the treasures. The excitement is in knowing you can steal a high six figure (or more) item at any moment.

More than six?

Jaraal

Stolen tryptich or some Dwarven plans, etc, sure. There are some Ayleid ruins with owned containers and pickable NPCs that can drop purple Ayleid plans which historically sell for multiple millions as well.

Ashagin

All this thread sias to me is handicap the efficient.

twev

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

And don't forget about the thousands of gold that ZOS just gives away to the players each month just for logging in. Yep, ZOS is really concerned about keeping a tight lid on "new gold" getting pumped into the game's economy.

This month's total possible gold is 11k. And given that 5k of that is the last day, and plenty of people skip at least one day a month, that's 6k (most of it in the last week, and there's good amounts of complaints about people missing too many days and losing the week 3 "good" reward.... )

Aaannnyway...

Yes, but the point is that ZOS are giving away free gold-- and occasionally free AP and TV. And it isn't to a few players, it's to all players... assuming they log in every day, or nearly so. So 11K "new gold" this month alone, times however many players are going to be logging in often enough this month to get all 11K of that gold, is how much "new gold" getting dumped into the game's economy?

Aaannnyway, as I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, because I hardly ever run up against my daily fencing limit as it is. In fact, I was fencing some loot last night and noticed that my daily limit is only 130 items, because I never bothered to invest the final skill point into that particular perk, because I didn't think it was worth it to spend another skill point on that perk, especially since I hardly ever fence 130 items in a day anymore.

I just think the argument about how increasing the fencing limit would topple the game's economy is kind of silly. There are so many gold sinks in this game that ZOS can give away free gold to millions of players (or however many there are) every month and the game economy hasn't been destroyed by it.

How many millions of gold does the game suck out of the economy in the form of auctioning off guild vendor sites EVERY WEEK, sales taxes on the guilds on every sales transaction through a guild vendor over and above the guild tax that the guild is allowed to keep to finance the vendor cost, players porting to wayshrines from places other than wayshrines, fees to change outfits, feeding mounts, and fines for being caught stealing. I'm sure there are others I'm glossing over, but you get the idea.

The economy has many gold sinks built into it that make up for much more of the inflation than people tend to think of.

Nairinhe

Arise, thread long forgotten!
Seriously, guys, learn to look at the dates.

ElvenOverlord

Cameron_Vayle wrote: »

I honestly don't care what "some" people might do. Those "same" people already what you are complaining about via dungeons, delves, ect. Thieving is the only line in the game that is this limited.

As for the trash that drops from mob kills, it adds up quick even at low gold amounts as so much drops. Care to address the elephant in the room then? The harvesting nodes? Or is that your money maker and you want it to stay that way?

[Snip] Thankfully the devs do care and will prevent potential exploits from happening cause its about the health of the game economy as a whole. A cap exists and will continue to exist. Its not going anywhere so get used to it.

[Edited out for bait]

barney2525

I think they just want people to actually Play the game instead of just going around in a circle, doing Only stealing for 12 hours a day.


IMHO

ZOS_RogerJ

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