CP vs NON-CP

KingKobra

Man, I was always such a big CP guy until I started non-cp and my god has it felt better. I could never stand Non-cp until I tried it out for a good week.
The game feels so much more balanced and is actually way more fun. I think ZOS needs to find a way to slowly remove CP from the game.

Are any other players like this as well, where they hated it until they actually gave it a good shot?
Just curious because I got some friends saying the EXACT same thing as me and some saying the opposite.

Aliyavana

well with cp, there is a gap in cp between people who have played longer is one defect. no cp does not give new players that disadvantage as no one has a cp advantage over another. If everyone had equal CP then I would treat it more seriously.

I dislike CP's time to kill, and no CP feels nice. Tho no cp has its own downsides such as proc sets overperforming, I don't like having unkillable builds that CP enables.

Its down to preference. Do you like having a huge CP gap between new players to farm new players easier and like being tankier? or do you enjoy being killed by players who equip sets that do some of the work for them.

Lord_Eomer

CP shall never remove due to PVE and progression system have to be in place on way or another

Qbiken

Both are trash and unplayable

Xerikten

people need to remember this one important thing when they post a topic. just because you want something a certain way doesn't mean everyone else does. since there is a means to play non cp right now then there is no need to change it. all you have to do is not put any points into it on that toon.

mjharper

I had a similar experience last time there was a PVP event (qualification: I suck at PVP).

I made a thread recently suggesting that CP be reduced - rather than removed - and a huge number of people joined in to say that it was impossible, and that gear was the main culprit of power creep.

And here's the problem as I see it: Removing (or only reducing) CP makes you weaker. The game DOES feel better that way. But some players will never stand for a solution which makes them weaker. They'll blame equipment, the meta, or weak overworld mobs before they accept a flat stat reduction, which is effectively what a CP rebalance will entail.

There always will be some players who demand a change to overworld PVE because it's too easy, and then complain when they can't melt overworld bosses like they used to.

Personally, I'd love a non-CP instance / toggle / nerf. I'd happily give up my 1000-odd CP for a better-feeling game. But I think that's a minority view, and ZOS is in a really difficult position, acknowledging that CP is a problem, but knowing that most players don't actually want a solution to power creep.

Xerikten wrote: »

people need to remember this one important thing when they post a topic. just because you want something a certain way doesn't mean everyone else does. since there is a means to play non cp right now then there is no need to change it. all you have to do is not put any points into it on that toon.

Right, so every time I want to do a vet dungeon or trial I should spend five minutes putting all the CP in, and then five minutes afterwards taking them out? Or just not do dungeons with that character? No thanks.

Not putting CP in is not a solution when endgame content is built around having high / max CP.

AlnilamE

Personally, for PvP, I prefer the no-CP campaigns because that way all I need to worry about when I go PvP is to change my gear, rather than redistribute CP.

DTStormfox

I prefer no-cp PvP, but in no-cp proc sets and dots are more powerful.

MojaveHeld

I find no-cp to be much more enjoyable, personally.

ImSoPro

I like them both. Probably no CP a bit more cause I play BGs way more than Cyrodiil.

Girl_Number8

I like them both and they both should be in the game. I would not limit myself to one as that would be boring. They are completely different and it is just your preference.

mjharper wrote: »

I had a similar experience last time there was a PVP event (qualification: I suck at PVP).

I made a thread recently suggesting that CP be reduced - rather than removed - and a huge number of people joined in to say that it was impossible, and that gear was the main culprit of power creep.

And here's the problem as I see it: Removing (or only reducing) CP makes you weaker. The game DOES feel better that way. But some players will never stand for a solution which makes them weaker. They'll blame equipment, the meta, or weak overworld mobs before they accept a flat stat reduction, which is effectively what a CP rebalance will entail.

There always will be some players who demand a change to overworld PVE because it's too easy, and then complain when they can't melt overworld bosses like they used to.

Personally, I'd love a non-CP instance / toggle / nerf. I'd happily give up my 1000-odd CP for a better-feeling game. But I think that's a minority view, and ZOS is in a really difficult position, acknowledging that CP is a problem, but knowing that most players don't actually want a solution to power creep.

Xerikten wrote: »

people need to remember this one important thing when they post a topic. just because you want something a certain way doesn't mean everyone else does. since there is a means to play non cp right now then there is no need to change it. all you have to do is not put any points into it on that toon.

Right, so every time I want to do a vet dungeon or trial I should spend five minutes putting all the CP in, and then five minutes afterwards taking them out? Or just not do dungeons with that character? No thanks.

Not putting CP in is not a solution when endgame content is built around having high / max CP.

Nah, just play Non Cp for you and let other people enjoy both, as far as PvP.

PvE endgame is built not just around cp but a very good raid group. 5 mins is nothing when setting up for a Vet Trial, no one will mind.

phontom78kiss

Instead of just removing CP...maybe just disable CP for PVP?

Girl_Number8

phontom78kiss wrote: »

Instead of just removing CP...maybe just disable CP for PVP?

They have Non Cp PvP problem solved

Master_Kas

They lowered our critchances and hp/mag/stam pools when they added cp. If no-cp got that (or some of it back) I couldn't care less about the cp perks and passives.

MartiniDaniels

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

phontom78kiss wrote: »

Instead of just removing CP...maybe just disable CP for PVP?

They have Non Cp PvP problem solved

Problem is that they continue trying to balance both (+ PVE). Imo this is impossible task. Let's just look at 2 very competitive games with complex character/unit parameters - OW and Starcraft 2.

Starcraft 2 - game is balanced around 1v1. Nobody cares about XvX balance and "PVE" (campaign) has completely different rule set with emphasis on fun. OW - game is balanced around 6v6 group objectives. Blizzard absolutely ignores Deathmatch and other modes.

Result - for both competitive modes games are more or less balanced. Yes, there are races/characters/tactics which are easier to play with same efficiency as harder to play ones, but within players of equal skill everything is ok.

Now look at ESO. From 12-24 possible "classes", i.e. magdps, stamdps, tank, healer of each, there are always few most viable and majority of others are notably weaker within hands of players of equal skill. ESO balance is complete failure and all they achieved this year was greatly reduced possible tactics list and decreased class identity, especially for stamina.

damdamjel

CP is the achievement goal for end game especially for pve and the driving factor to keep players play longer. That feeling of accumulated power over your hard earned time investment, cp or non-cp have their own pros and cons. Atleast zos gave us the choice to choose what flavours we like.

iAmLife

Qbiken wrote: »

Both are trash and unplayable

Wrong and stick with PVE, noob.

Sergykid

i also never wanted to hear about no CP because i thought i would lose so much power. But then i tried it just to see how it is, and i remained to it since without going back to CP. Feels like a whole new game and balance. And don't worry about proc sets that people talk about, in high mmr nobody wears proc sets

iAmLife

Sergykid wrote: »

i also never wanted to hear about no CP because i thought i would lose so much power. But then i tried it just to see how it is, and i remained to it since without going back to CP. Feels like a whole new game and balance. And don't worry about proc sets that people talk about, in high mmr nobody wears proc sets

Yep same and its mainly about sustain, majority of the players run sustain sets... If anything only NBs who revolve around gank style would use proc sets and thats a huge maybe.

Waffennacht

For PvP I've enjoyed both; I feel like the skill gap between those in the know and those that aren't to be greater in CP.

In PvE I can see where CP is practically necessary for some content and a lot of builds.

I've seen many ideas in the last few years; some of which were really good - but the issue is how many changes will happen?

Do they have to rework the CPs and therefore the NPCs and then say dungeon mechanics? Does one small change actually mean the whole game needs to be adjusted?

Could be. I dunno; I don't know Jack about programming or codes or any of it.

The only thing I really know is that BGs pretty much have to be no CP as long as CP stays as it is

Qbiken

iAmLife wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Both are trash and unplayable

Wrong and stick with PVE, noob.

I play both and performance is trash in both. Get real

JumpmanLane

Cp allows for greater flexibility in builds. If you enjoy nocp, play it. Why the need to remove it entirely unless you consistently get mopped in cp campaigns and refuse to adjust your build or playstyle.

Anyone who says “I like no cp better than cp,” I think, fair enough. It’s a preference. However, when someone says “Further, they should remove cp from the game,” well, that’s a confession of weakness.

iAmLife

Qbiken wrote: »

iAmLife wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Both are trash and unplayable

Wrong and stick with PVE, noob.

I play both and performance is trash in both. Get real

You need to get good then, playing a certain map doesn't mean you'll be good, I play non cp and performance wise no issues, ping always below 80 even at huge seige wars... Either you're playing using a potato or you're shite and arguing for the sake of arguing.

Katahdin

There should be an on / off toggle for CP so people can turn it off when they want to.

Other than that, let people play what they want and you play what you want.
Stop trying to take away other people's choices just because you don't like it.

lucky_Sage

The CP System is just not a good system for balance. It needs to force the player to specialize not allow them to get everything like it does

lemonizzle

I'm the opposing party in this thread, no cp feels worse than cp enabled pvp. I play a lot of battlegrounds, but in Cyrodiil I always went for the champ enabled campaign, while it was an option for all characters .

No cp: less crit and damage, less overall stats meaning you have to dump too much into sustain sets and managing, feels like your characters balls are removed, (below 810s can actually hurt you).

Cp enabled: can patch out holes in the build, can get away with less crit resist gear and regen, room for damage enchant, all the points you worked for gets to have an use. In Cyrodiil, guard npcs are easier to solo when doing resource capping daily.

I did not notice a difference in the amount of muh unkillable cp crutching players, that upper % is present in no cp as well.

inb4 l2p noob

ImSoPro

iAmLife wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

iAmLife wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Both are trash and unplayable

Wrong and stick with PVE, noob.

I play both and performance is trash in both. Get real

You need to get good then, playing a certain map doesn't mean you'll be good, I play non cp and performance wise no issues, ping always below 80 even at huge seige wars... Either you're playing using a potato or you're shite and arguing for the sake of arguing.

You talking about no CP Cyro?

killingspreeb16_ESO

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

phontom78kiss wrote: »

Instead of just removing CP...maybe just disable CP for PVP?

They have Non Cp PvP problem solved

Sadly if drinks/set etc get nerfed because cp scaling nocp is the one to suffer.

Cp need to be removed and replaced/revamped in something much better,this way you can actually try to balance things more or less.

Nocp pvp +cp pvp and pve is not something you can balance.

Also our char got nerfed aswel thanks to cp just to give people a feeling of fake progression and when things start to get out of control something get nerfed again.

Waffennacht

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

phontom78kiss wrote: »

Instead of just removing CP...maybe just disable CP for PVP?

They have Non Cp PvP problem solved

Sadly if drinks/set etc get nerfed because cp scaling nocp is the one to suffer.

Cp need to be removed and replaced/revamped in something much better,this way you can actually try to balance things more or less.

Nocp pvp +cp pvp and pve is not something you can balance.

Also our char got nerfed aswel thanks to cp just to give people a feeling of fake progression and when things start to get out of control something get nerfed again.

The Nerf cycle is real. That's true. Just look at poor trinimac's valor set

Seraphayel

lucky_Sage wrote: »

The CP System is just not a good system for balance. It needs to force the player to specialize not allow them to get everything like it does

This honestly sounds like a good idea. You can either have points in green, red or blue. If you choose one that’s it, the other ones are blocked. Instead of allowing to build for damage, healing and tankiness this would make you stronger in one aspect but not in all three which is a massive problem in PvP. You shouldn’t be able to do two or even three roles almost perfectly fine.