Arrogance of a 800+ Champion

Sable751

I was just in Beregamma stalking a Contract for the Dark Brotherhood. When in comes a 800plus Champion, who can obviously see what I’m doing, but instead of letting me take the kill, barges in front of me and takes it instead.

Leaving me to wait for the respawn.

My only consolation was that they might be 800plus but they couldn’t take the kill cleanly and got chased by the Guards. So they still have somethings to learn about stealth.

I maybe only Lvl 31, but at least I try to be courteous to my fellow players. And hopefully if I ever get to be 800plus Champion I still will be.

ChunkyCat

MartiniDaniels

I doubt he ever noticed you, he was just rushing this quests to open daily for tickets. Also he probably have dozens of useless otherwise bounty cleaners, so he just using them now without caring about be stealthy.

DocFrost72

Okay but what about the arrogance of assuming an enemy in an MMO is yours to kill though?

Imza

you mean like the arrogance of many players that rush up and take that harvesting node or chest while you're fighting the mob to be able to farm it.....

this game made people like that - by making it a competition to get these things.....

EDIT:

There are other games out there where everyone can farm the node if they want to....

Svenja

Just saying, I am a max CP player and I don't even bother to sneak during any DB or TG quest anymore.. I just want to grab my event ticket asap and be done with that boring stuff for the day. I sprint through the sacrament with a speed buff and drop my ultimate on the target, then I die to all the aggroed enemies on purpose so I can get out faster.
And I have all the "perfect sacrament" achievements and whatnot on my char. So much for "having to learn how to stealth". It is just boring and takes too long.

Sorry that someone stole your kill, but next time you should try to do it faster then.

redspecter23

He saw someone stalking his kill and about to get it, forcing HIM to wait on the respawn if it were to happen. He did what would benefit him and took the shot while he was able to. You complain about him taking your kill when you were about to do the exact same thing. Style points don't remove the respawn wait time and hovering around a target doesn't equate to "dibs".

Itacira

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

redspecter23

Itacira wrote: »

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

So standing beside and NPC negates the ability for anyone else to kill that NPC by that logic? There are no dibs in ESO. It's your kill when you kill it, not when you get within some arbitrary range and crouch down. Who decides this range? 5 meters? 10 meters? If I crouch near 2 NPC's, are they both off limits until I choose if I'm actually doing anything with them?

Mechanically speaking, the game works the way it does because it has to. Yes, if I see someone crouching near a mob, I typically just keep on going. There are other opportunities. However, if I happen to also need that mob dead for some reason, you're darn right I'm going to come in there guns blazing to try and get the kill. I don't want to wait on that respawn anymore than the other guy does.

Itacira

redspecter23 wrote: »

Itacira wrote: »

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

So standing beside and NPC negates the ability for anyone else to kill that NPC by that logic? There are no dibs in ESO. It's your kill when you kill it, not when you get within some arbitrary range and crouch down. Who decides this range? 5 meters? 10 meters? If I crouch near 2 NPC's, are they both off limits until I choose if I'm actually doing anything with them?

Mechanically speaking, the game works the way it does because it has to. Yes, if I see someone crouching near a mob, I typically just keep on going. There are other opportunities. However, if I happen to also need that mob dead for some reason, you're darn right I'm going to come in there guns blazing to try and get the kill. I don't want to wait on that respawn anymore than the other guy does.

I don't know, when you wait in line, what's the official range at which point the person is too far to be considered waiting in line ? If in doubt, ask. Communicate. It's an online game for a reason : there are PEOPLE in there.

Linaleah

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I doubt he ever noticed you, he was just rushing this quests to open daily for tickets. Also he probably have dozens of useless otherwise bounty cleaners, so he just using them now without caring about be stealthy.

nonsense. daily for tickets is instanced and if you are about to say (they were just trying to unlock Dark brotherhood) they had ALL that time they played to get to champ 800+ to do that and that still doesn't excuse lack of basic courtesy.

Xajic

redspecter23 wrote: »

He saw someone stalking his kill and about to get it, forcing HIM to wait on the respawn if it were to happen. He did what would benefit him and took the shot while he was able to. You complain about him taking your kill when you were about to do the exact same thing. Style points don't remove the respawn wait time and hovering around a target doesn't equate to "dibs".

When you think about it like this, yeah just take my agree.

Eraldus

Umm... what?

Some level 29 0 CP player managed to get to a ore vein before my CP 354 level 50 Templar. THE ARROGANCE OF LOWBIES! Don't they have any respect for their high level players?!?!?

This has nothing with CP level or anything of the sort

Nogawd

Imza wrote: »

you mean like the arrogance of many players that rush up and take that harvesting node or chest while you're fighting the mob to be able to farm it.....

Add in the people who loot the chests but leave in the garbage...

BomblePants

Itacira wrote: »

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

Oh look a normal person! I second this...

kargen27

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I doubt he ever noticed you, he was just rushing this quests to open daily for tickets. Also he probably have dozens of useless otherwise bounty cleaners, so he just using them now without caring about be stealthy.

nonsense. daily for tickets is instanced and if you are about to say (they were just trying to unlock Dark brotherhood) they had ALL that time they played to get to champ 800+ to do that and that still doesn't excuse lack of basic courtesy.

You shouldn't assume based on champion points that the player has had plenty of time. Maybe the player just purchased the DLCs since they have gone on sale. Might be playing a character that was created since we last had this event.

Doesn't excuse bad behavior but is a possibility.

Eraldus

BomblePants wrote: »

Itacira wrote: »

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

Oh look a normal person! I second this...

"Excuse me sir, but you murdered the person I was stalking around before you arrived, and that's very rude and you lack common courtesy!"

Itacira

Eraldus wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Itacira wrote: »

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

Oh look a normal person! I second this...

"Excuse me sir, but you murdered the person I was stalking around before you arrived, and that's very rude and you lack common courtesy!"

I was thinking more along the lines of : "Hey mate ! you gonna take this kill or can I have it ?"

But truthfully your version is funnier, albeit reversed.

highkingnm

Whilst not polite, I don’t think you can claim all 810s do it because of a sense of entitlement over lowbies. I’m CP780 and will have players of all levels cut in and do things like this, as well as nodes. It’s not great, but it is how it is.

Not sure why people are talking about getting it done for event tickets though given event tickets come from the instanced quests.

MehrunesFlagon

Svenja wrote: »

Just saying, I am a max CP player and I don't even bother to sneak during any DB or TG quest anymore.. I just want to grab my event ticket asap and be done with that boring stuff for the day. I sprint through the sacrament with a speed buff and drop my ultimate on the target, then I die to all the aggroed enemies on purpose so I can get out faster.
And I have all the "perfect sacrament" achievements and whatnot on my char. So much for "having to learn how to stealth". It is just boring and takes too long.

Sorry that someone stole your kill, but next time you should try to do it faster then.

I don't even pay attention to what I'm doing when I do those.

Cernow

This is the fundamental problem with the adversarial gameplay that the developers have intentionally created for this game. Far too much content is competitive AGAINST your fellow players, there's not a lot of reward for co-operating WITH them, certainly not in open world content.

Everything from opening chests and harvesting resource nodes, to killing specific mobs and triggering special events, all is adversarial and it's usually not good if other players are in the vicinity. Which is an utterly broken way to design a MMO.

ESO has always felt like a single player game that they tried to shoe horn MMO gameplay into, rather than a MMO that allows you to do stuff solo but is usually better or more fun grouped.

Other MMOs do so much better at being MMOs, where co-operation is REWARDED not penalised. where everyone can harvest a node, everyone gets their own loot, where kill stealing isn't an issue and helping on a tough mob or event is something to be appreciated, not scorned. Those games tend to have a better community as a result too because the emphasis is on helping each other, not competing with each other.

disintegr8

Been happening for the 4 years I've been playing, whether it's a kill, a resource node or a chest - first in first served.

Ertosi

disintegr8 wrote: »

Been happening for the 4 years I've been playing, whether it's a kill, a resource node or a chest - first in first served.

Agreed. But if you're nice about it, like I always am, make sure to leave the runner up something tasty from your Questionable Meat Sack as a consolation prize.

AcadianPaladin

My CP1200 sees plenty of arrogant/rude lower level players. And high level ones as well. My point is that how a player deals with others has little to do with CP.

My other point is that, while it is easy to say another player saw and knew what you were doing and consciously charged in ahead of you, those assumptions are very squishy. Though that sometimes does happen, I'm convinced that in many cases the other player is just very focused on what they are doing. For better or worse, other players in the area are simply not what they are focused on.

Bouldercleave

800+ CP has nothing to do with it. Some people just want to watch the world burn. This guy was doing the same type thing at lvl 10 I'm sure.


I've had it happen many times. Sneaking behind to pickpocket someone and BAM someone flies by killing everything in their path.

Just shrug it off and move on.

Dusk_Coven

Imza wrote: »

this game made people like that - by making it a competition to get these things.....

EDIT:

There are other games out there where everyone can farm the node if they want to....

Games with obviously better bot management or mechanics that impede botting, because otherwise a whole train of bots would farm each node.

VaranisArano

Its an event.

There are tons of players roaming around during an event doing their own thing and competing for limited resources for the extra rewards.

Come back after the event and you won't see a fraction of that competitive behavior.

In my experience, I've had far more and worse hate tells from PVE players I beat in a race to a resource node than I ever have in PVP.

So at some point, you can let it drag you down or shrug it off with "Its an event."

DocFrost72

Itacira wrote: »

To all those of you basically saying that expecting that player to wait for a respawn is "entitlement" and that they were totally in their rights to take the kill in front of OP : what the heck is wrong with you ? Have you heard of common courtesy ? When you find yourself in line, do you suddenly decide to cut in front of the other people waiting because respecting their right of priority is a hassle to you and a waste of time ?

I was watching that npc for five days waiting to strike. The OP was poaching and forced my hand.

UnseenCat

disintegr8

Ertosi wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Been happening for the 4 years I've been playing, whether it's a kill, a resource node or a chest - first in first served.

Agreed. But if you're nice about it, like I always am, make sure to leave the runner up something tasty from your Questionable Meat Sack as a consolation prize.

Or the crawlers on any plant you've harvested - nothing more annoying than harvesting corn flower to only get bugs!!

Itacira

Cernow wrote: »

This is the fundamental problem with the adversarial gameplay that the developers have intentionally created for this game. Far too much content is competitive AGAINST your fellow players, there's not a lot of reward for co-operating WITH them, certainly not in open world content.

Everything from opening chests and harvesting resource nodes, to killing specific mobs and triggering special events, all is adversarial and it's usually not good if other players are in the vicinity. Which is an utterly broken way to design a MMO.

ESO has always felt like a single player game that they tried to shoe horn MMO gameplay into, rather than a MMO that allows you to do stuff solo but is usually better or more fun grouped.

Other MMOs do so much better at being MMOs, where co-operation is REWARDED not penalised. where everyone can harvest a node, everyone gets their own loot, where kill stealing isn't an issue and helping on a tough mob or event is something to be appreciated, not scorned. Those games tend to have a better community as a result too because the emphasis is on helping each other, not competing with each other.

Hm, this is actually a very good analysis, and the first time I read criticism of ESO's solo PVE questlines and gameplay that doesn't amount to "urgh, those solo casuals". It's true that cooperation in the game is seldom needed for most content, and even when it does happen, it very rarely encourages interactions. I've been joined more than once during my attempts at soloing world bosses by other random player(s) just passing by, and I've also joined people fighting bosses too. We usually just do our thing with barely any teamwork and when we're done just rush away without one word.

As for the community, my experience with online gaming, albeit small compared to many other ones, had not prepared me to what I've been seeing on this forum since I started playing : it's anybody for themselves and pitting each other against one another. It may just be a "vocal minority" but that minority is then very, very vocal.

It'd be nice if, being aware of these pitfalls, we could all work against the close mindedness and individualization the gameplay tends to herds us towards so that we could all play together this massively multiplayer role playing game and make it as enjoyable as it can be.