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Zenimax Consistently Blanket-Nerfing rather then addressing specific issues.
templesus
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This seriously needs to stop. With the Patch today, that was supposed to address Goliath Ultimate, ZOS decides to nerf the SnB passive from 100% increased bash damage to 500 WD for Bash damage. This has been tested and an effective overall DPS nerf of about 10% on la/heroic-ransack/bash builds on PC. On console....lol. We give up stam regen to bash(we have to block to do it), and bash weaving with a controller takes much more skill. Bash weaving for SnB builds is now dead, when already less then 5% of the playerbase even ran SnB on console.
Seriously, this HAS TO STOP.
Rather then nerfing just swift when it was the problem, speed pots get gutted.
Rather then just nerfing Dual Wield enchants when it was the problem, SnB enchants got gutted.
Rather then just nerfing THE GOLIATH ITSELF, SnB bash weaving got gutted.
Edited by templesus on July 1, 2019 2:52PM Seriously, this HAS TO STOP.
Rather then nerfing just swift when it was the problem, speed pots get gutted.
Rather then just nerfing Dual Wield enchants when it was the problem, SnB enchants got gutted.
Rather then just nerfing THE GOLIATH ITSELF, SnB bash weaving got gutted.
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.Edited by susmitds on July 1, 2019 3:02PM10 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.Edited by templesus on July 1, 2019 3:49PM4 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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While I might be on board with this, their communication is absolutely terrible. I guess I should be delighted they're finally doing incremental combat changes. Is that what this is? It's only the Goliath that really needed changing. If they just thought of nerfing SnB, now, because of that, it leaves a foul taste in my mouth. Was there any previous communication / discussion, with class reps, about bash weaving in PvP SnB builds?I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)3 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
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While I might be on board with this, their communication is absolutely terrible. I guess I should be delighted they're finally doing incremental combat changes. Is that what this is? It's only the Goliath that really needed changing. If they just thought of nerfing SnB, now, because of that, it leaves a foul taste in my mouth. Was there any previous communication / discussion, with class reps, about bash weaving in PvP SnB builds?I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
They don't listen to class reps at all lol. They should have nerfed the ultimate worse though it creates very toxic gameplay for sure. Especially in the hands of an emporer.........
Bashing should have been changed into something else unique on the morph of that ultimate rather than nerfing sns.0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This seriously needs to stop. With the Patch today, that was supposed to address Goliath Ultimate, ZOS decides to nerf the SnB passive from 100% increased bash damage to 500 WD for Bash damage. This has been tested and an effective overall DPS nerf of about 10% on la/heroic-ransack/bash builds on PC. On console....lol. We give up stam regen to bash(we have to block to do it), and bash weaving with a controller takes much more skill. Bash weaving for SnB builds is now dead, when already less then 5% of the playerbase even ran SnB on console.
Seriously, this HAS TO STOP.
Rather then nerfing just swift when it was the problem, speed pots get gutted.
Rather then just nerfing Dual Wield enchants when it was the problem, SnB enchants got gutted.
Rather then just nerfing THE GOLIATH ITSELF, SnB bash weaving got gutted.
I agree. This "using a backhoe to remove a few weeds from the garden" approach to development is just lazy and amateurish.11 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, this specific use combined with the ultimate is what needed a nerf, not anything else with bashing. They could have simply made it not scale on the ulti and also pulled the bash enchant buffs away from the ulti. That would have kept it from being OP and just been a solid ultimate to use. And if it's going to do that much damage, then it shouldn't be that defensive. And I like the defense portion, so I think the bash stacking to exploit the skill is what needs to be stopped.
But they always think they are being creative. That's why, as you said OP, instead of fixing specific issues, they make sweeping un-needed changes. Notice people don't use speed or immovable pots much at all anymore? If you make a change and something goes from must use to don't bother at all, you screwed up.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC6 -
Rygonix✭✭✭✭✭I was more for simply decoupling the 100% snb bash bonus from the Goliath ult. That way the ult gets tuned down and non necros don't get caught in the crossfire. But I suppose the spaghetti code got in the way of that so what ZoS did was the next best thing.Ceres Des Mortem-Dark Elf Templar, EP
PC-NA2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.
R2>Spammable>L2>R2 = hard?
Bash weaves are some of the easiest imo. It’s literally a roll of the fingers. And any Stam spec not bash weaving is (typically) getting out played by the guy that does. DW, 2H... all of em. It’s so engrained into muscle memory I have to mentally remember to turn it off when I play mag cuz it’ll completely shred my small Stam pool.
Some skills bash weave better tho... puncture for instance is silky smooth while reverb gets clunky.Edited by Insco851 on July 1, 2019 6:43PM1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.
R2>Spammable>L2>R2 = hard?
Bash weaves are some of the easiest imo. It’s literally a roll of the fingers. And any Stam spec not bash weaving is (typically) getting out played by the guy that does. DW, 2H... all of em. It’s so engrained into muscle memory I have to mentally remember to turn it off when I play mag cuz it’ll completely shred my small Stam pool.
Some skills bash weave better tho... puncture for instance is silky smooth while reverb gets clunky.
Nobody said it’s hard, but it’s definitely much harder using a controller than using a keyboard n mouse.
The point is not really to say that bash weaving shouldn’t have gotten nerfed(although it shouldn’t have) but rather to say ZOS needs to stop blanket nerfing things.2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.
R2>Spammable>L2>R2 = hard?
Bash weaves are some of the easiest imo. It’s literally a roll of the fingers. And any Stam spec not bash weaving is (typically) getting out played by the guy that does. DW, 2H... all of em. It’s so engrained into muscle memory I have to mentally remember to turn it off when I play mag cuz it’ll completely shred my small Stam pool.
Some skills bash weave better tho... puncture for instance is silky smooth while reverb gets clunky.
Nobody said it’s hard, but it’s definitely much harder using a controller than using a keyboard n mouse.
The point is not really to say that bash weaving shouldn’t have gotten nerfed(although it shouldn’t have) but rather to say ZOS needs to stop blanket nerfing things.
“Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it.”
Everything is harder on console. Supposedly. The idea it isn’t used on console is wrong though. That’s all.Edited by Insco851 on July 1, 2019 8:18PM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.
R2>Spammable>L2>R2 = hard?
Bash weaves are some of the easiest imo. It’s literally a roll of the fingers. And any Stam spec not bash weaving is (typically) getting out played by the guy that does. DW, 2H... all of em. It’s so engrained into muscle memory I have to mentally remember to turn it off when I play mag cuz it’ll completely shred my small Stam pool.
Some skills bash weave better tho... puncture for instance is silky smooth while reverb gets clunky.
Nobody said it’s hard, but it’s definitely much harder using a controller than using a keyboard n mouse.
The point is not really to say that bash weaving shouldn’t have gotten nerfed(although it shouldn’t have) but rather to say ZOS needs to stop blanket nerfing things.
“Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it.”
Everything is harder on console. Supposedly. The idea it isn’t used on console is wrong though. That’s all.
It isn’t...less the NB 5% of the playerbase uses SnB main builds. Usually only good players use it and good players are easily less then 10% of PvPers.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.
R2>Spammable>L2>R2 = hard?
Bash weaves are some of the easiest imo. It’s literally a roll of the fingers. And any Stam spec not bash weaving is (typically) getting out played by the guy that does. DW, 2H... all of em. It’s so engrained into muscle memory I have to mentally remember to turn it off when I play mag cuz it’ll completely shred my small Stam pool.
Some skills bash weave better tho... puncture for instance is silky smooth while reverb gets clunky.
Nobody said it’s hard, but it’s definitely much harder using a controller than using a keyboard n mouse.
The point is not really to say that bash weaving shouldn’t have gotten nerfed(although it shouldn’t have) but rather to say ZOS needs to stop blanket nerfing things.
“Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it.”
Everything is harder on console. Supposedly. The idea it isn’t used on console is wrong though. That’s all.
It isn’t...less the NB 5% of the playerbase uses SnB main builds. Usually only good players use it and good players are easily less then 10% of PvPers.
Okay well it’s alive and well on Xbox na.0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.
Yeah ok buddy, because 10/12 classes totally have that option. If you’re invisible most of the time in Cyrodiil it’s likely your probably not good enough to pull off a SnB build effectively.
Edited by templesus on July 3, 2019 1:56PM1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.
Yeah ok buddy, because 10/12 classes totally have that option. If you’re invisible most of the time in Cyrodiil it’s likely your probably not good enough to pull off a SnB build effectively.
I play bleedblade and S&B stamblade this patch, none of which need invisible cloak lol. Every single stamina class can be played using 2H/bow or Dw/2H. But it is simply safer to go S&B while retaining most of the offence.0 -
Hashtag_✭✭✭✭✭I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it. That’s where the disparity lies, they gutted an already dying playstyle. Also, how is that broken? One takes more skill and uses more stamina then the other, in every instance it should do more damage. The floor should be raised not lowered as your comment suggests.
R2>Spammable>L2>R2 = hard?
Bash weaves are some of the easiest imo. It’s literally a roll of the fingers. And any Stam spec not bash weaving is (typically) getting out played by the guy that does. DW, 2H... all of em. It’s so engrained into muscle memory I have to mentally remember to turn it off when I play mag cuz it’ll completely shred my small Stam pool.
Some skills bash weave better tho... puncture for instance is silky smooth while reverb gets clunky.
Nobody said it’s hard, but it’s definitely much harder using a controller than using a keyboard n mouse.
The point is not really to say that bash weaving shouldn’t have gotten nerfed(although it shouldn’t have) but rather to say ZOS needs to stop blanket nerfing things.
“Lol SnB is a dead spec on console, because bash weaving is much harder and you lose stam regen when doing it.”
Everything is harder on console. Supposedly. The idea it isn’t used on console is wrong though. That’s all.
It isn’t...less the NB 5% of the playerbase uses SnB main builds. Usually only good players use it and good players are easily less then 10% of PvPers.
It’s not our fault your pugs are late to metas.0 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭bashing doesn't halt your stamina regeneration, only if you happen to hold block constantly and if that happens during the moment the regen tick hits.
also said about it here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475898/how-to-optimally-sprint-and-block-on-casual-environment#latest-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.
You would know perma cloaking is as brain dead as it gets, I think you meant that.
Edited by Girl_Number8 on July 3, 2019 3:16PM0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.
You would know perma cloaking is as brain dead as it gets, I think you meant that.
Play around with 12k resists with no Minor/Major Protection when everybody else is at resist cap and let's see brain dead it is. Any misstep and you will explode.
Of course, lets keep pretending S&B with tanky sets spamming reverb and heroic/ransack and bash is hard to play.2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.
You would know perma cloaking is as brain dead as it gets, I think you meant that.
Play around with 12k resists with no Minor/Major Protection when everybody else is at resist cap and let's see brain dead it is. Any misstep and you will explode.
Of course, lets keep pretending S&B with tanky sets spamming reverb and heroic/ransack and bash is hard to play.
If it’s so easy why is everyone on cloakblade and magsorc?0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »I would support you overall but in this case, I support ZoS on this.
I am in favor of any SnB nerfs. Eff the tank meta.
It is broken when with exact the same sets, LA+Surprise Attack hit lesser on DW than LA+Heroic+Bash on SnB.
Hmmm, maybe being invisible most of the time really affects your thinking.
Tbh, it is much more fun playing a full glass canon roller cloak build than the braindead seventh/pirate skele/whatever SnB reverb/heroic/bash/LA/ult/execute build.
You would know perma cloaking is as brain dead as it gets, I think you meant that.
Play around with 12k resists with no Minor/Major Protection when everybody else is at resist cap and let's see brain dead it is. Any misstep and you will explode.
Of course, lets keep pretending S&B with tanky sets spamming reverb and heroic/ransack and bash is hard to play.
If it’s so easy why is everyone on cloakblade and magsorc?
Cloak blade? You mean DARK-CloakBlade. (And that means it could be Stam rocking s&b or mag s&b defense bar.
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Kadoozy✭✭✭✭Mattock_Romulus wrote: »Love the nerfs to SnB. Great job Zos!
Stop necroing these posts. Nobody cares and you are clearly doing it for a reason.0
