Is anyone else upset that you can’t queue for a random and jump to pledge to complete both anymore?

rustle911

I’m not looking for all the people who got mad because their random dungeon pug group left them for FG1 just to get easy rewards, but for the people who used this feature to get extra xp while doing pledges as a full group. With all of the other bugs in this game, I personally am kind of ticked off at ZoS for making me depend on crappy RNG, especially for those of us that have ESO+, to possibly get a random dungeon and a pledge completed at the same time.
I was never one to leave a group, but setting up for a random vet and getting Moon Hunter Keep when it isn’t a pledge is just garbage. Having the ability to jump to a pledge dungeon was the only thing that made the random dungeon finder worth using. Now that it has been killed, I don’t even bother anymore. If you’re going to make a broken thing like animation cancelling a “feature” then why are you spending time taking dungeon hopping away when there are sooooo many other actual issues that make parts of this game unplayable left to be fixed?

redspecter23

My thoughts are that it was unintended and removed for good reason. I'm not a huge fan of the system in place for the random queue, but double dipping was most definitely not quite right.

Linaleah

you want to be upset at someone? you HAVE to blame all the people who jumped to FG1 in pugs. they are the reason premades cannot double dip anymore. don't blame ZoS, they only fixed it because the FG1 thing got so ridiculous the outcry was practically non stop. at first we thought people would stop after the event but nope. not only they didn't stop - they did it even with spindleclutch 1 on NORMAL THEY are why we cannot have nice things. THEY are the ones who ruined it for everyone else, NOT ZoS.

vgabor

Well, you can do the random dungeon on normal just like I do, which is very fast rush through the dungeon, and then do the vet pledges with specific search...

phaneub17_ESO

Most my randoms land on the pledge 5/8 times, those are pretty high odds.

Muzzick

vgabor wrote: »

Well, you can do the random dungeon on normal just like I do, which is very fast rush through the dungeon, and then do the vet pledges with specific search...

Agree here I never understood why anyone would do random vet.

Evito

There are no incentives to do random vet so why would you bother?

Dark_Lord_Kuro

rustle911 wrote: »

I’m not looking for all the people who got mad because their random dungeon pug group left them for FG1 just to get easy rewards, but for the people who used this feature to get extra xp while doing pledges as a full group. With all of the other bugs in this game, I personally am kind of ticked off at ZoS for making me depend on crappy RNG, especially for those of us that have ESO+, to possibly get a random dungeon and a pledge completed at the same time.
I was never one to leave a group, but setting up for a random vet and getting Moon Hunter Keep when it isn’t a pledge is just garbage. Having the ability to jump to a pledge dungeon was the only thing that made the random dungeon finder worth using. Now that it has been killed, I don’t even bother anymore. If you’re going to make a broken thing like animation cancelling a “feature” then why are you spending time taking dungeon hopping away when there are sooooo many other actual issues that make parts of this game unplayable left to be fixed?

Im happy about it
I REALLY disliked when i queued for a specific dungeon to farm set piece and half the group just port to pledge or fg1 dor easy exp

It shouldnt have been a thing in the first place

Glurin

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Most my randoms land on the pledge 5/8 times, those are pretty high odds.

Makes sense though. You're not just drawing from the pool of people who queued for random. You're also getting the ones that queued for specific dungeons. Naturally, that means a higher chance of getting the day's pledge dungeons simply because there's more people queuing for those particular dungeons.

rustle911

vgabor wrote: »

Well, you can do the random dungeon on normal just like I do, which is very fast rush through the dungeon, and then do the vet pledges with specific search...

The issue with that is my second point. My dungeon pool is all of them. When I random normal I’m just as likely to get a dlc, which happens a lot, as I am something else.

Linaleah wrote: »

you want to be upset at someone? you HAVE to blame all the people who jumped to FG1 in pugs. they are the reason premades cannot double dip anymore. don't blame ZoS, they only fixed it because the FG1 thing got so ridiculous the outcry was practically non stop. at first we thought people would stop after the event but nope. not only they didn't stop - they did it even with spindleclutch 1 on NORMAL THEY are why we cannot have nice things. THEY are the ones who ruined it for everyone else, NOT ZoS.

No, ZoS ruined it for everyone. This was a problem since the dungeon finder became live over two years ago. If they had fixed it then, there wouldn’t have been much of an outcry as few people knew about it. It suddenly becomes a priority when they have an event and it’s taken advantage of. If this was something that they were finally getting around to, I might have less of a problem, but my game still crashes when I using a Wayshrine for travel. Also, the dungeon finder itself is still broken! Easy solution to the random problem is for people to get rewards for using the dungeon finder regardless of whether or not it’s random or specific. Their issue with that is that people aren’t doing the harder dungeons.
All any of this is to them is a way to try to control content consumption. Really, if it was that important, then they could’ve fixed it ages ago. As to the constant outcry over it, I spent over an hour searching threads about the fact that they had fixed the problem and found almost nothing. Most of the conversations about it ended 2-4 months ago. In the end, what I want in a patch is actual fixes. Hell, if it was such a big “exploit” why wasn’t the fact that it was fixed included in the patch notes?

yodased

It wasn't in patch notes because it wasn't something they changed as that "workaround" was not intended, they just made it work as they intended it to.

The FG1 hoppers were just the proverbial straw that got them to allocate whatever time their engineers needed to fix the overlap.

Also normal dlc are super easy

bmnoble

I am glad they changed it, nothing more annoying, than if you needed the skill-point for a specific dungeon, only to have the whole group in FG1.

Or queuing for a specific, to do a pledge, once again groups in FG1.

Really annoyed the hell out of me though once the change went live, went to do a random for the daily 100K xp, groups all in FG1, I explained to them they changed it so you don't get an activity complete, if you don't do the dungeon you get. Got ignored they proceeded to do FG1, I left, waited out the 20 minute penalty. Queued with someone else, if they wanted to waste their time in the queue that is on them, I main a tank so queue time's more or less instant for me.

Other than a few experiences like that, when the change went live, lately I have been getting a lot better quality groups then I use to get doing Randoms with PUG groups. Actually seen a few healers who have learnt the role, instead of the usual learners/people leveling as a healer, I use to get in groups, more often getting good DPS instead of those, who had not learnt the concept of a rotation.

So overall I think the change has been one for the better.

Linaleah

rustle911 wrote: »

vgabor wrote: »

Well, you can do the random dungeon on normal just like I do, which is very fast rush through the dungeon, and then do the vet pledges with specific search...

The issue with that is my second point. My dungeon pool is all of them. When I random normal I’m just as likely to get a dlc, which happens a lot, as I am something else.

Linaleah wrote: »

you want to be upset at someone? you HAVE to blame all the people who jumped to FG1 in pugs. they are the reason premades cannot double dip anymore. don't blame ZoS, they only fixed it because the FG1 thing got so ridiculous the outcry was practically non stop. at first we thought people would stop after the event but nope. not only they didn't stop - they did it even with spindleclutch 1 on NORMAL THEY are why we cannot have nice things. THEY are the ones who ruined it for everyone else, NOT ZoS.

No, ZoS ruined it for everyone. This was a problem since the dungeon finder became live over two years ago. If they had fixed it then, there wouldn’t have been much of an outcry as few people knew about it. It suddenly becomes a priority when they have an event and it’s taken advantage of. If this was something that they were finally getting around to, I might have less of a problem, but my game still crashes when I using a Wayshrine for travel. Also, the dungeon finder itself is still broken! Easy solution to the random problem is for people to get rewards for using the dungeon finder regardless of whether or not it’s random or specific. Their issue with that is that people aren’t doing the harder dungeons.
All any of this is to them is a way to try to control content consumption. Really, if it was that important, then they could’ve fixed it ages ago. As to the constant outcry over it, I spent over an hour searching threads about the fact that they had fixed the problem and found almost nothing. Most of the conversations about it ended 2-4 months ago. In the end, what I want in a patch is actual fixes. Hell, if it was such a big “exploit” why wasn’t the fact that it was fixed included in the patch notes?

the problem is - 2 years ago, it was NOT a problem. premades would double dip and everyone else got to do whatever dungeon they got. and no one complained. and then... during second year of undaunted event - the rest of the populase discovered the trick. and then... jerks abused it. you know when people started to complain the most? when too many people actualy tried to queue up for specific dungeon, doing it the RIGHT way, only to be faced with "port to fungal grotto" nonsense.

ZoS didn't ruin it for everyone. they FIXED it for people who genuinely just wanted to do a random dungeon OR the dungeon they specifically queued up for and had to WAIT for it to pop.

so like I said. blame the jerks who kept pushing FG1 nonsense on pug groups whether they liked it or not. ZoS fixed it because too many people were getting unhappy about it. they left it alone for years because it wasn't an issue for years. it has BECOME an issue. so they fixed it.

Benzux

It was a good change for an annoying and unintended exploit. I'm glad it's gone.
Random Normals are so easy you can do them in 5 minutes, then queue for the Pledge on Vet - using the system like you're meant to. Even most normal DLC dungeons are easy, with some of the newer ones (cough cough Frostvault cough cough) being the "pugkillers" with their mechanics that your level 17 groupmate who is levelling will probably not know. There is literally no reason to do random Vet dungeons over random normals, unless you're looking for something more challenging, or want the chance for purple jewellery/monster sets - in which case you should just queue for that specific dungeon anyway.
I do think that DLC dungeons should have a separate queue, however. Either that, or make the minimum 300 CP requirement apply on normal DLC dungeons as well - if that already isn't the case. It would solve some of the problems you seem to have, and it would make 99% of the playerbase happy, if the multiple discussions I've seen about wanting separate DLC queues are anything to go by.

StormChaser3000

Not at all. I rarely used it anyway. All I need to do is to switch to another tank or healer and try again. Normally I land in decent dungeon. By the end of the run, the timer on the first character will reach zero.

Same technique applies to potato groups (unless I run my dps as a tank and just use them as extra 10-20% damage).

ryzen_gamer_gal

Muzzick wrote: »

vgabor wrote: »

Well, you can do the random dungeon on normal just like I do, which is very fast rush through the dungeon, and then do the vet pledges with specific search...

Agree here I never understood why anyone would do random vet.

purple gear is the only reason to do anything on vet... well that and monster sets.

ryzen_gamer_gal

Benzux wrote: »

It was a good change for an annoying and unintended exploit. I'm glad it's gone.
Random Normals are so easy you can do them in 5 minutes, then queue for the Pledge on Vet - using the system like you're meant to. Even most normal DLC dungeons are easy, with some of the newer ones (cough cough Frostvault cough cough) being the "pugkillers" with their mechanics that your level 17 groupmate who is levelling will probably not know. There is literally no reason to do random Vet dungeons over random normals, unless you're looking for something more challenging, or want the chance for purple jewellery/monster sets - in which case you should just queue for that specific dungeon anyway.
I do think that DLC dungeons should have a separate queue, however. Either that, or make the minimum 300 CP requirement apply on normal DLC dungeons as well - if that already isn't the case. It would solve some of the problems you seem to have, and it would make 99% of the playerbase happy, if the multiple discussions I've seen about wanting separate DLC queues are anything to go by.

yes cp 300 for dlc. dungeons... or at least limit it to one player with cp below 300. Three cp 300 players ought to be able to carry one. Otherwise, how will anyone learn?

Destruent

What i don't get...you sign up for a RANDOM dungeon and you get a random dungeon. And now you complain, that you cannot decide which dungeon you run as a random dungeon? do you even understand what "RANDOM" means?

lardvader

Have they finally fixed it? Good! I always queue for specific dungeons so a bit annoying when everyone else jumps to fungal and I have to take the 15 min pen if they don't kick me.

VaranisArano

Not at all upset. Actually, I'm thrilled they fixed it.

You queued for a Random Dungeon to get the reward for the risk of a Random Dungeon. If you want a guaranteed Pledge dungeon, queue for the Pledge dungeon.

I also think its disengenous to be like "Well, I totally wasnt using it for FG1, so it's fine that I was skipping out on my Random Dungeon, right?" Whatever your excuse, its still an exploit.

I mean, you make it clear that at the root of it, you have the same attitude of "I don't want to do the Random dungeon I got when I queued for a Random dungeon." And that's exactly why this got fixed: the rewards for the Daily Random are for a Random Dungeon. If you want the rewards, either do the dungeon or take the leave penalty so you can try again. You know, like we always did before this exploit became common knowledge?

Austinseph1

It’s pretty fair, I stopped doing randoms altogether because pug dlc dungeons are just so bad. I’ve been happier ever since.

mairwen85

The only time this 'feature' has really ever been useful if you ended up in group where someone had requeued the same dungeon without resetting. You queue for an age only to end up in a dungeon that is already a finished instance... Drop and take a penalty before requeueing for yet another age. In those instances, utilising a bug as a workaround to get a new instance was useful. Very much so. But any other use would have been leveraging a bug for gain == exploit (technically the workaround falls under the same definition).

I hope zos fix it that you can't reque the dungeon you are in until you exit, and if full party has exited the instance, it is reset.

rustle911

Yes, this was an exploit that most people used to work around a *** system. As someone who pays for ESO+, why I am I punished by having to quit on a dungeon that I can’t complete after an hour because my tank got paired with a couple of dps that can’t fight their way out of a paper sack. I am the one who has to switch accounts, then my game freezes on a load screen and I have to restart, then mechanics are suddenly broken, etc... My bigger point is that the bad side of what I call a feature and you call an exploit, and it’s the same thing as animation cancelling, is that there a lot of other issue that are game breaking that needed tending to first. And you are right, I was using it in the same way, but I was at least responsible enough to only do it with a full group. I get my rewards without having to go through the grueling process of trying to explain mechanics to someone who really doesn’t care to learn them.

I do Vet because normal is boring. Also purple drops are always better.

barney2525

bmnoble wrote: »

I am glad they changed it, nothing more annoying, than if you needed the skill-point for a specific dungeon, only to have the whole group in FG1.

Or queuing for a specific, to do a pledge, once again groups in FG1.

Really annoyed the hell out of me though once the change went live, went to do a random for the daily 100K xp, groups all in FG1, I explained to them they changed it so you don't get an activity complete, if you don't do the dungeon you get. Got ignored they proceeded to do FG1, I left, waited out the 20 minute penalty. Queued with someone else, if they wanted to waste their time in the queue that is on them, I main a tank so queue time's more or less instant for me.

Other than a few experiences like that, when the change went live, lately I have been getting a lot better quality groups then I use to get doing Randoms with PUG groups. Actually seen a few healers who have learnt the role, instead of the usual learners/people leveling as a healer, I use to get in groups, more often getting good DPS instead of those, who had not learnt the concept of a rotation.

So overall I think the change has been one for the better.

An angry cat scratching a chalk board is more annoying

MehrunesFlagon

I for one remember being in an extraordinarily easy dungeon.Group decided to port to Scalecaller.

rustle911

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

I for one remember being in an extraordinarily easy dungeon.Group decided to port to Scalecaller.

All right, you win, I give up.

MehrunesFlagon

rustle911 wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

I for one remember being in an extraordinarily easy dungeon.Group decided to port to Scalecaller.

All right, you win, I give up.

Well,Just saying not everyone used it to get an easier dungeon.WE did it cause we did not want faceroll easy.Perhaps they should make it so you cannot to a lower tier dungeon,while going to higher would be.

Linaleah

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

rustle911 wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

I for one remember being in an extraordinarily easy dungeon.Group decided to port to Scalecaller.

All right, you win, I give up.

Well,Just saying not everyone used it to get an easier dungeon.WE did it cause we did not want faceroll easy.Perhaps they should make it so you cannot to a lower tier dungeon,while going to higher would be.

honestly? I'm glad it is the way it is now. i'm going to miss it for certain premade things, but at the same time... there is no way allowing this to happen in a random queue is not going to result in SOMEONE being f-ed over, because they queued up for a specific dungeon only for someone in their group to decide to do something else instead.

rustle911

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

rustle911 wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

I for one remember being in an extraordinarily easy dungeon.Group decided to port to Scalecaller.

All right, you win, I give up.

Well,Just saying not everyone used it to get an easier dungeon.WE did it cause we did not want faceroll easy.Perhaps they should make it so you cannot to a lower tier dungeon,while going to higher would be.

honestly? I'm glad it is the way it is now. i'm going to miss it for certain premade things, but at the same time... there is no way allowing this to happen in a random queue is not going to result in SOMEONE being f-ed over, because they queued up for a specific dungeon only for someone in their group to decide to do something else instead.

That’s also a huge problem though. If I queue for a specific dungeon and the open slot is filled with someone who meets the minimum requirements but has no chance of completing it for any number of reasons then both my group and the random are left doing the boot and requeue cycle for god only knows how long until someone who both wants to do it and can do it comes along. I once spent 45 minutes in a vSCP doing that and got the same dps who couldn’t keep up with the ogre fight dropped in 3 times. We finally just gave up and came back another day.

zaria

Linaleah wrote: »

you want to be upset at someone? you HAVE to blame all the people who jumped to FG1 in pugs. they are the reason premades cannot double dip anymore. don't blame ZoS, they only fixed it because the FG1 thing got so ridiculous the outcry was practically non stop. at first we thought people would stop after the event but nope. not only they didn't stop - they did it even with spindleclutch 1 on NORMAL THEY are why we cannot have nice things. THEY are the ones who ruined it for everyone else, NOT ZoS.

This, it was an pretty old exploit but not well known, it stared getting well known during last undaunted event, was standard during some of the later double xp ones and yes the idiots who queued as three man then demanded port to FG1 even if 4th had pledge and needed quest from wayrest1, BC1 or fungal 1 got ignored.
Idiots did not expect this to have effects down the line as they was idiots.

VaranisArano

rustle911 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

rustle911 wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

I for one remember being in an extraordinarily easy dungeon.Group decided to port to Scalecaller.

All right, you win, I give up.

Well,Just saying not everyone used it to get an easier dungeon.WE did it cause we did not want faceroll easy.Perhaps they should make it so you cannot to a lower tier dungeon,while going to higher would be.

honestly? I'm glad it is the way it is now. i'm going to miss it for certain premade things, but at the same time... there is no way allowing this to happen in a random queue is not going to result in SOMEONE being f-ed over, because they queued up for a specific dungeon only for someone in their group to decide to do something else instead.

That’s also a huge problem though. If I queue for a specific dungeon and the open slot is filled with someone who meets the minimum requirements but has no chance of completing it for any number of reasons then both my group and the random are left doing the boot and requeue cycle for god only knows how long until someone who both wants to do it and can do it comes along. I once spent 45 minutes in a vSCP doing that and got the same dps who couldn’t keep up with the ogre fight dropped in 3 times. We finally just gave up and came back another day.

That's pretty much Groupfinder working as intended.

If you queue for a random group member, you get a random group member, who may or may not be able to actually complete the content.

If you want someone guaranteed to be able to complete the content, I suggest asking in zone or your guilds for someone to fill that role. i.e. NOT a random from groupfinder.