Permanent snares in BGs are still a major problem in Elsweyr

ecru

Cleansing Ritual/Ritual of Retribution/Extended Ritual (and to a lesser extent frost blockade, which isn't used as often and doesn't cover as large of an area) is still guaranteeing that players are permanently snared in high MMR BGs and IMO this should be addressed. Since there is no immunity timer on snares and the circle is so large, there is very little counterplay to a templar constantly dropping a ritual on every single area where fighting is taking place. I'd prefer to see an immunity timer on snares like in every other mmo that has ever existed, but extended ritual in general is an extremely overloaded ability when you consider that it also provides a great synergy to your entire team, removes 5 debuffs, gives minor mending, and heals. I don't think it would be a bad ability if it didn't also snare everyone inside of it for 24 seconds. Even frost blockade only lasts 8 seconds before it has to be reused.

There is a stark difference between a BG with a templar or two and a BG without. In the former, you can expect to be snared the entire time and you're required to slot an ability to be able to control your character at what's basically normal movement speed. In situations like this, I'd rather just not queue at all. When one ability that snares everyone in a large radius for 24 seconds can only be countered by every player inside of it slotting an ability that provides, at most, 2 seconds of immunity and 4 seconds of major expedition (race against time), or 4 seconds of major expedition (quick cloak), snares are still a major problem. Large, long duration aoe snares are also just too good in general. This post is mostly about how miserable and unfun it is to play BGs like this, but the advantage given to a team that can fight inside of a gigantic circle that snares all of their opponents is huge. Not only can they kite more effectively when they need to, they have a much easier time staying on targets that try to kite them. If the ability only snared it would still be worth slotting in many situations.

Jabbs_Giggity

Eh. Honestly, there are way bigger problems to PVP - and BG's than Templars...

I main a Templar, and we have ZERO crowd control (other than the snare from Ritual) to please our wacky spammable hitbox that hits for, on average, less than 30% accuracy - if target is not snared/immobilized.

The bigger problem in BG's, specifically, is unkillable targets - Tank Meta with high burst needs to be addressed.
Another issue with BG's is PUG-finder. I understand this isn't as easily addressed. However, in a perfect world the group finder should group people with similar BG scores/achievements to create better synergy between randoms to combat pre-mades.
Thirdly, I have noticed that the top leaderboards (at least in Deathmatch) is Sorcs (Obviously, because they are the most cheese!). Then Stamina DK's - not sure why people complain about this class being underperforming...in PVP they are easily the tankiest, most mobile and near highest burst. Finally, comes the Stamina NB and/or Stamina Warden. But let's face it...they just spam Whirlwind now trying to kill steal - or sit back and still Snipe spam (NB's).

BriannaLuv

I don't post very often, but i feel compelled to correct you. In no way, whatsoever does cleansing ritual / extended ritual / ritual of retribution stun or snare. You may want to google the skill and its morphs to see for yourself that the actual effects generally only remove negative effects and heal over time.

Best of luck in your future battles.

ecru

Jewel wrote: »

I don't post very often, but i feel compelled to correct you. In no way, whatsoever does cleansing ritual / extended ritual / ritual of retribution stun or snare. You may want to google the skill and its morphs to see for yourself that the actual effects generally only remove negative effects and heal over time.

Best of luck in your future battles.

Sacred Ground
Passive
Restoring Light Rank 14 -- -- --
Rank II

While standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 4 seconds after leaving them you gain Minor Mending, increasing your healing done by 8%.
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus or Rite of Passage areas of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.

Rolexdt

Lol I had to look it up myself but yeh maybe dont comment or jump the gun before checking thoroughly.

I agree with Jabbs. The bigger issue is the premade vs pugs and sorc cheese.

Iskiab

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Eh. Honestly, there are way bigger problems to PVP - and BG's than Templars...

I main a Templar, and we have ZERO crowd control (other than the snare from Ritual) to please our wacky spammable hitbox that hits for, on average, less than 30% accuracy - if target is not snared/immobilized.

The bigger problem in BG's, specifically, is unkillable targets - Tank Meta with high burst needs to be addressed.
Another issue with BG's is PUG-finder. I understand this isn't as easily addressed. However, in a perfect world the group finder should group people with similar BG scores/achievements to create better synergy between randoms to combat pre-mades.
Thirdly, I have noticed that the top leaderboards (at least in Deathmatch) is Sorcs (Obviously, because they are the most cheese!). Then Stamina DK's - not sure why people complain about this class being underperforming...in PVP they are easily the tankiest, most mobile and near highest burst. Finally, comes the Stamina NB and/or Stamina Warden. But let's face it...they just spam Whirlwind now trying to kill steal - or sit back and still Snipe spam (NB's).

Just wanted to pipe up great feedback! These days my death matches all seem lopsided, did they play with MMR? As a healer it’s always a steamroll or I get two people on my team under CP160. Doesn’t make any sense.

ecru

Rolexdt wrote: »

Lol I had to look it up myself but yeh maybe dont comment or jump the gun before checking thoroughly.

I agree with Jabbs. The bigger issue is the premade vs pugs and sorc cheese.

What did you think that giant circle was that was snaring you the entire time you were inside of it that templars constantly drop on every fight when they cleanse themselves or while they're kiting?

Maybe templars dropping rituals non stop is only something that happens at high MMR, since apparently some of them don't even know that it snares. Playing one of my other characters who has only done a handful of BGs the other night, I ran into a lot of magplars, and none of them bothered to drop a ritual more than a few times, with none of them using it specifically to kite/snare, and some of them seemingly not even slotting it.

Even if it's only a thing at high MMR, pvping in a giant circle that lasts 24 seconds which is placed all over a bg, which also snares things above and below the terrain it was placed on, really sucks. It's a guarantee that the entire time you're actually pvping, you will be snared, and this is still an issue for people who don't like to play an entire BG while snared. I don't know who actually likes this kind of slow motion gameplay, but I sure as *** don't.

Jabbs_Giggity

ecru wrote: »

Rolexdt wrote: »

Lol I had to look it up myself but yeh maybe dont comment or jump the gun before checking thoroughly.

I agree with Jabbs. The bigger issue is the premade vs pugs and sorc cheese.

What did you think that giant circle was that was snaring you the entire time you were inside of it that templars constantly drop on every fight when they cleanse themselves or while they're kiting?

Maybe templars dropping rituals non stop is only something that happens at high MMR, since apparently some of them don't even know that it snares. Playing one of my other characters who has only done a handful of BGs the other night, I ran into a lot of magplars, and none of them bothered to drop a ritual more than a few times, with none of them using it specifically to kite/snare, and some of them seemingly not even slotting it.

Even if it's only a thing at high MMR, pvping in a giant circle that lasts 24 seconds which is placed all over a bg, which also snares things above and below the terrain it was placed on, really sucks. It's a guarantee that the entire time you're actually pvping, you will be snared, and this is still an issue for people who don't like to play an entire BG while snared. I don't know who actually likes this kind of slow motion gameplay, but I sure as *** don't.

You can use snare removal and get immunity of plenty of sources...a 30% snare is nothing when other skills can easily be applied up to 60% at a third if the cost to ritual. Just saying.

ecru

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Rolexdt wrote: »

Lol I had to look it up myself but yeh maybe dont comment or jump the gun before checking thoroughly.

I agree with Jabbs. The bigger issue is the premade vs pugs and sorc cheese.

What did you think that giant circle was that was snaring you the entire time you were inside of it that templars constantly drop on every fight when they cleanse themselves or while they're kiting?

Maybe templars dropping rituals non stop is only something that happens at high MMR, since apparently some of them don't even know that it snares. Playing one of my other characters who has only done a handful of BGs the other night, I ran into a lot of magplars, and none of them bothered to drop a ritual more than a few times, with none of them using it specifically to kite/snare, and some of them seemingly not even slotting it.

Even if it's only a thing at high MMR, pvping in a giant circle that lasts 24 seconds which is placed all over a bg, which also snares things above and below the terrain it was placed on, really sucks. It's a guarantee that the entire time you're actually pvping, you will be snared, and this is still an issue for people who don't like to play an entire BG while snared. I don't know who actually likes this kind of slow motion gameplay, but I sure as *** don't.

You can use snare removal and get immunity of plenty of sources...a 30% snare is nothing when other skills can easily be applied up to 60% at a third if the cost to ritual. Just saying.

30% snare is hyuuuuge and is the same as major expedition. If you have major expedition, how easy it is to kite a target without it? How easy is it to catch a target without it? It's the exact same thing, just in the form of a movement speed debuff rather than a movement speed buff. It lets everyone inside of that 24 second circle kite or catch any of their opponents the vast majority of the time because people are almost always moving at normal speed during combat. To move at normal speed you have to sprint, to catch an opponent you have to sprint or use a gap closer, to kite away at any reasonable speed you have to sprint if you're in an opponent's ritual, etc. This is a huge drain on opponents resources.

On CC removal/movement speed skills: sources of major expedition and cc removal/snare immunity are expensive, extremely short duration, and have to be slotted by everyone to counter a ground aoe snare that can be continually placed by one person. The difference here is one Templar slotting one ability that snares for 24 seconds vs 8 players slotting an ability that allows them to move normally for 2-4 seconds. The Templar's ability doesn't just snare, it provides a synergy, it heals, it removes debuffs, and it provides minor mending. As a stamdk Forward Momentum in a BG is impossible to use regularly due it's cost plus the heal from Rally is huge, Quick Cloak only lasts 4 seconds, and Race Against Time is also too expensive to use.

Again, IMO Extended Ritual would be worth slotting in a BG for the ground aoe snare by itself. I believe it gives you that much of an advantage. In high MMR BGs, kiting opponents and catching opponents who are kiting is the difference between securing a kill and someone getting away.

Do people really like being snared so often? Is there anyone who actually enjoys this kind of gameplay? I mean, I can see how if you're ranged and a sorc with streak it wouldn't be a huge deal, but playing melee with little to no mobility and being snared for the entire duration of a BG is the opposite of fun. I'd rather be doing anything else.

jcm2606

ecru wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Rolexdt wrote: »

Lol I had to look it up myself but yeh maybe dont comment or jump the gun before checking thoroughly.

I agree with Jabbs. The bigger issue is the premade vs pugs and sorc cheese.

What did you think that giant circle was that was snaring you the entire time you were inside of it that templars constantly drop on every fight when they cleanse themselves or while they're kiting?

Maybe templars dropping rituals non stop is only something that happens at high MMR, since apparently some of them don't even know that it snares. Playing one of my other characters who has only done a handful of BGs the other night, I ran into a lot of magplars, and none of them bothered to drop a ritual more than a few times, with none of them using it specifically to kite/snare, and some of them seemingly not even slotting it.

Even if it's only a thing at high MMR, pvping in a giant circle that lasts 24 seconds which is placed all over a bg, which also snares things above and below the terrain it was placed on, really sucks. It's a guarantee that the entire time you're actually pvping, you will be snared, and this is still an issue for people who don't like to play an entire BG while snared. I don't know who actually likes this kind of slow motion gameplay, but I sure as *** don't.

You can use snare removal and get immunity of plenty of sources...a 30% snare is nothing when other skills can easily be applied up to 60% at a third if the cost to ritual. Just saying.

30% snare is hyuuuuge and is the same as major expedition. If you have major expedition, how easy it is to kite a target without it? How easy is it to catch a target without it? It's the exact same thing, just in the form of a movement speed debuff rather than a movement speed buff. It lets everyone inside of that 24 second circle kite or catch any of their opponents the vast majority of the time because people are almost always moving at normal speed during combat. To move at normal speed you have to sprint, to catch an opponent you have to sprint or use a gap closer, to kite away at any reasonable speed you have to sprint if you're in an opponent's ritual, etc. This is a huge drain on opponents resources.

On CC removal/movement speed skills: sources of major expedition and cc removal/snare immunity are expensive, extremely short duration, and have to be slotted by everyone to counter a ground aoe snare that can be continually placed by one person. The difference here is one Templar slotting one ability that snares for 24 seconds vs 8 players slotting an ability that allows them to move normally for 2-4 seconds. The Templar's ability doesn't just snare, it provides a synergy, it heals, it removes debuffs, and it provides minor mending. As a stamdk Forward Momentum in a BG is impossible to use regularly due it's cost plus the heal from Rally is huge, Quick Cloak only lasts 4 seconds, and Race Against Time is also too expensive to use.

Again, IMO Extended Ritual would be worth slotting in a BG for the ground aoe snare by itself. I believe it gives you that much of an advantage. In high MMR BGs, kiting opponents and catching opponents who are kiting is the difference between securing a kill and someone getting away.

Do people really like being snared so often? Is there anyone who actually enjoys this kind of gameplay? I mean, I can see how if you're ranged and a sorc with streak it wouldn't be a huge deal, but playing melee with little to no mobility and being snared for the entire duration of a BG is the opposite of fun. I'd rather be doing anything else.

30% snare is actually stronger than Major Expedition, far as I know, because snares are last in the speed equation. A 30% snare is based off of your final movement speed, while a 30% speed buff is based off of your initial movement speed. A 30% snare on a character with 100% movement speed is 30%, while a 30% snare on a character with 130% movement speed is 39%.

ecru

jcm2606 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Rolexdt wrote: »

Lol I had to look it up myself but yeh maybe dont comment or jump the gun before checking thoroughly.

I agree with Jabbs. The bigger issue is the premade vs pugs and sorc cheese.

What did you think that giant circle was that was snaring you the entire time you were inside of it that templars constantly drop on every fight when they cleanse themselves or while they're kiting?

Maybe templars dropping rituals non stop is only something that happens at high MMR, since apparently some of them don't even know that it snares. Playing one of my other characters who has only done a handful of BGs the other night, I ran into a lot of magplars, and none of them bothered to drop a ritual more than a few times, with none of them using it specifically to kite/snare, and some of them seemingly not even slotting it.

Even if it's only a thing at high MMR, pvping in a giant circle that lasts 24 seconds which is placed all over a bg, which also snares things above and below the terrain it was placed on, really sucks. It's a guarantee that the entire time you're actually pvping, you will be snared, and this is still an issue for people who don't like to play an entire BG while snared. I don't know who actually likes this kind of slow motion gameplay, but I sure as *** don't.

You can use snare removal and get immunity of plenty of sources...a 30% snare is nothing when other skills can easily be applied up to 60% at a third if the cost to ritual. Just saying.

30% snare is hyuuuuge and is the same as major expedition. If you have major expedition, how easy it is to kite a target without it? How easy is it to catch a target without it? It's the exact same thing, just in the form of a movement speed debuff rather than a movement speed buff. It lets everyone inside of that 24 second circle kite or catch any of their opponents the vast majority of the time because people are almost always moving at normal speed during combat. To move at normal speed you have to sprint, to catch an opponent you have to sprint or use a gap closer, to kite away at any reasonable speed you have to sprint if you're in an opponent's ritual, etc. This is a huge drain on opponents resources.

On CC removal/movement speed skills: sources of major expedition and cc removal/snare immunity are expensive, extremely short duration, and have to be slotted by everyone to counter a ground aoe snare that can be continually placed by one person. The difference here is one Templar slotting one ability that snares for 24 seconds vs 8 players slotting an ability that allows them to move normally for 2-4 seconds. The Templar's ability doesn't just snare, it provides a synergy, it heals, it removes debuffs, and it provides minor mending. As a stamdk Forward Momentum in a BG is impossible to use regularly due it's cost plus the heal from Rally is huge, Quick Cloak only lasts 4 seconds, and Race Against Time is also too expensive to use.

Again, IMO Extended Ritual would be worth slotting in a BG for the ground aoe snare by itself. I believe it gives you that much of an advantage. In high MMR BGs, kiting opponents and catching opponents who are kiting is the difference between securing a kill and someone getting away.

Do people really like being snared so often? Is there anyone who actually enjoys this kind of gameplay? I mean, I can see how if you're ranged and a sorc with streak it wouldn't be a huge deal, but playing melee with little to no mobility and being snared for the entire duration of a BG is the opposite of fun. I'd rather be doing anything else.

30% snare is actually stronger than Major Expedition, far as I know, because snares are last in the speed equation. A 30% snare is based off of your final movement speed, while a 30% speed buff is based off of your initial movement speed. A 30% snare on a character with 100% movement speed is 30%, while a 30% snare on a character with 130% movement speed is 39%.

Interesting. I guess this explains why even though it's "only" 30%, it often feels like more, and you still feel relatively slow inside of it when sprinting with the debuff.

Rolexdt

To be honest I'm so used to being snared I never really bother to pay attention who or what is snaring me in a bg match where they force 12 people to duke it out in one small area. Is it ritual? Is it caltrops? Whatever....half the time I'm getting stunned or rooted to death while snared anyways.

You use immvability pots and your removal skills (shuffle etc) and do your best to survive a burst.

BGs = call of duty.

CynicK

Things have improved a lot since they reduced the snare form wall of ellements from 60% to 40% no one uses it anymore, it was hell before.

ChunkyCat

It’s better than it was.