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We need new sustain monster set
Kawall
✭✭✭
As i said in the title, we need sustain monter set. I'm already bored with " when you deal damage you have something something chance to throw damaging lob at the enemy" sets. What was the last sustain set? Engine guardian? Rng based sustain set that become obselete after morrowind patch. What you guys think?
Edit: I'm primarily talking about pve dps.
Edited by Kawall on June 7, 2019 1:56PM Edit: I'm primarily talking about pve dps.
3
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sets from the latest dungeon DLC - Stonkeeper and Symphony of Blades - are both sustain sets...5 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why couldn't you run 2 pce stamina/magicka regen (bloodspawn+stormfist, strangler+bogden ie)?
Math:
StonekeeperWhen you block an attack, you gain an energy Charge stack, up to one stack per second. When you gain 6 Charges, you release the energy, restoring 5350 Stamina and Magicka, and healing for 5350. After releasing the Charges, you cannot regain new Charges for 14 seconds.
Time to see resource release: 20 seconds (maximum uptime: release has 14 second cd and you must block 6 attacks. Balanced to one block per second).
5350/20= 267.5/s return.
CON: You have to block 6 attacks. Even at only 500 stamina per block as the cost, you're looking at spending 3,000 stamina on this,making it a much more realistic 117.5/s return for stamina.
Symphony of BladesWhen you heal an ally whose primary resource is under 50%, grant them Meridia’s Favor, restoring 2325 of that resource every 1 second for 6 seconds. 18 second cooldown.
Time to see resource release: 18 seconds (18s cd, but 6 sec duration- cd begins once set procs)
(2325*6)/18= 775/s return.
CON: you HAVE to heal -yourself- at under 50% max resource to get it.
Engine guardianWhen you use an ability, you have a 10% chance to summon a dwemer automation to restore 1162 Health, Stamina, or Magicka every 0.5 seconds for 6.5 seconds.
Time to see resource release: no CD, could proc literally one right after the other. HOWEVER, it's a 1 in 3 chance to get the resource you want on a 10% proc chance.
(2324/3)*.10=77.5/s return (rounded up)
Dual regen pieces
Adds 258 regen. It ain't hard to do that math. The fun begins with %amps. 20% from potions, 15% for 5 armor pieces (minimum). This ignores several %amps such as CP and class passives, bit I did that for a reason.
(258+ (258*.15) + (258*.2))/2= (258+ 38.7 + 51.6)/2= 174.15/s return.
CON: You are giving up a monster set standard 1 piece such as max stamina/magicka or spell/physical damage.
So, in summation, you'll actually get better sustain from two regen pieces (with minimum amps) than you would with 2/3 monster sets for stamina, and 1/3 for magicka. And those, again, are values of *regen sets* specifically designed for that purpose, versus two stat values.
EDIT: Symphony of Blades math was wrong, fixed.Edited by DocFrost72 on June 7, 2019 6:07PM4 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭What set we really need is a ranged magicka based damage set that is actually good. Zaan is great, but it's melee. Skoria is outperformed by 1p iceheart + 1p zaan and Ilambris is only good on sorcs because nobody else has significant amounts of lightning damage in the fire staff meta.
- Grothdarr is melee.
- Iceheart is melee and also weak as a damage set.
- Balorgh is weak in PvE to the point of irrelevance.
- Domihaus is melee.
- Maw of the infernal is weak on anything but pet sorcs with the right curse morph, and also the most hated set by tanks (if someone is using it, they have a hard time taunting and positioning stuff)
- Molag Kena doesn't work with standard rotations and kills sustain.
- Slimecraw is useless when there is a healer in the group, and also when you're a Warden.
- Nerieneth is outperformed by 1p iceheart+1p zaan.
So really, ranged mag DDs are in the same situation as people wanting regen.4 -
Kawall✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Why couldn't you run 2 pce stamina/magicka regen (bloodspawn+stormfist, strangler+bogden ie)?
Math:
StonekeeperWhen you block an attack, you gain an energy Charge stack, up to one stack per second. When you gain 6 Charges, you release the energy, restoring 5350 Stamina and Magicka, and healing for 5350. After releasing the Charges, you cannot regain new Charges for 14 seconds.
Time to see resource release: 20 seconds (maximum uptime: release has 14 second cd and you must block 6 attacks. Balanced to one block per second).
5350/20= 267.5/s return.
CON: You have to block 6 attacks. Even at only 500 stamina per block as the cost, you're looking at spending 3,000 stamina on this,making it a much more realistic 117.5/s return for stamina.
Symphony of BladesWhen you heal an ally whose primary resource is under 50%, grant them Meridia’s Favor, restoring 2325 of that resource every 1 second for 6 seconds. 18 second cooldown.
Time to see resource release: 12 seconds (18s cd, but 6 sec duration- cd begins once set procs)
2325/12= 193.75/s return.
CON: you HAVE to heal yourself at under 50% max resource to get it.
Engine guardianWhen you use an ability, you have a 10% chance to summon a dwemer automation to restore 1162 Health, Stamina, or Magicka every 0.5 seconds for 6.5 seconds.
Time to see resource release: no CD, could proc literally one right after the other. HOWEVER, it's a 1 in 3 chance to get the resource you want on a 10% proc chance.
(2324/3)*.10=77.5/s return (rounded up)
Dual regen pieces
Adds 258 regen. It ain't hard to do that math. The fun begins with %amps. 20% from potions, 15% for 5 armor pieces (minimum). This ignores several %amps such as CP and class passives, bit I did that for a reason.
(258+ (258*.15) + (258*.2))/2= (258+ 38.7 + 51.6)/2= 174.15/s return.
CON: You are giving up a monster set standard 1 piece such as max stamina/magicka or spell/physical damage.
So, in summation, you'll actually get better sustain from two regen pieces (with minimum amps) than you would with 2/3 monster sets for stamina, and 1/3 for magicka. And those, again, are values of *regen sets* specifically designed for that purpose, versus two stat values.
I already run bloodspawn + stormfist but what i was asking is whole set revolving around sustain. Something like engine guardian but better/more refined.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You're already better than 2/3 dedicated "sustain" sets running what you run. You want a new sustain set, what values would you give to it? How would it function?0 -
Kawall✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »You're already better than 2/3 dedicated "sustain" sets running what you run. You want a new sustain set, what values would you give to it? How would it function?
Maybe something similiar to symphony? Like;
(1 item) 129 mag regen
(1 item) 129 stam regen
(2 item) <When you deal critical damage you have a %10 chance increase your primary stat regen x amount> this effect has y second cooldown
x and y numbers up to zos to optimize the sets and '< >' can be changed aswell. Like when you drop to certain percentage or something different. Dunno I'm not an expert on item designing. I'm just making a suggestion.0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭
Both sets are PvE sets. Why would you think they aren't? Sure, a DPS isn't wearing them, but you should be wearing a damage set to begin with to maximize DPS.
Symphony is pretty much the staple for PvE healers now. It works out to be 775 resources per second if it procs on cooldown.0 -
Kawall✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »
Both sets are PvE sets. Why would you think they aren't? Sure, a DPS isn't wearing them, but you should be wearing a damage set to begin with to maximize DPS.
Symphony is pretty much the staple for PvE healers now. It works out to be 775 resources per second if it procs on cooldown.
Symphony is for healing and stonekeeper for tanking? Because i don't see dps doing lot of blocking constantly to take advantage of this set. I can see its potential in pvp though. Reason i was asking it because its really hard manage your resources without gold or dubious/witch mother. And you must change to health glyph on chest or head to stay at reasonable hp. It's not much of a problem with premade group but while running pug or soloing/vma it becomes a problem.0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »
Both sets are PvE sets. Why would you think they aren't? Sure, a DPS isn't wearing them, but you should be wearing a damage set to begin with to maximize DPS.
Symphony is pretty much the staple for PvE healers now. It works out to be 775 resources per second if it procs on cooldown.
Symphony is for healing and stonekeeper for tanking? Because i don't see dps doing lot of blocking constantly to take advantage of this set. I can see its potential in pvp though. Reason i was asking it because its really hard manage your resources without gold or dubious/witch mother. And you must change to health glyph on chest or head to stay at reasonable hp. It's not much of a problem with premade group but while running pug or soloing/vma it becomes a problem.
You have VO for stam and FGD for mag in vMA. Soloing requires no additional sustain since things die so fast. Generally speaking, you should probably be doing dungeons/pledges with guild members instead of relying on PUGs.1 -
Kawall✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »
Both sets are PvE sets. Why would you think they aren't? Sure, a DPS isn't wearing them, but you should be wearing a damage set to begin with to maximize DPS.
Symphony is pretty much the staple for PvE healers now. It works out to be 775 resources per second if it procs on cooldown.
Symphony is for healing and stonekeeper for tanking? Because i don't see dps doing lot of blocking constantly to take advantage of this set. I can see its potential in pvp though. Reason i was asking it because its really hard manage your resources without gold or dubious/witch mother. And you must change to health glyph on chest or head to stay at reasonable hp. It's not much of a problem with premade group but while running pug or soloing/vma it becomes a problem.
You have VO for stam and FGD for mag in vMA. Soloing requires no additional sustain since things die so fast. Generally speaking, you should probably be doing dungeons/pledges with guild members instead of relying on PUGs.
I mean soloing wb or dungeons. And i have very erratic gaming schedule. I may play in middle of the night or early morning. And i can't play the same game for long period of time so i regularly give break and come back. Trying to get into decent trading/pve guilds every time is such a pain in the ass (which is one of my biggest complaints of the game)Edited by Kawall on June 7, 2019 4:41PM0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you’re missing the big picture, @Kawall.
DPS parses after the Elsweyr patch are still 50k+ for pretty much every class.
So, sustain is fine.
What are other players doing with their builds that you’re not?
Or, to ask the question in a different way: If you’re not doing end game content (where WBs and Vet dungeons are not end game), rolling with what you have currently is probably OK ... am I right?0 -
Kawall✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »I think you’re missing the big picture, @Kawall.
DPS parses after the Elsweyr patch are still 50k+ for pretty much every class.
So, sustain is fine.
What are other players doing with their builds that you’re not?
Or, to ask the question in a different way: If you’re not doing end game content (where WBs and Vet dungeons are not end game), rolling with what you have currently is probably OK ... am I right?
I'm just suggesting a new type of set. I don't have some dubious intensions or asking for buffs/nerfs. I have no problems doing vma or vtrials, i just find resources management annoying compare to earlier patches. It's just to much reliant on decent healer. Which isn't common in pug groups or soloing stuff. That's it.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »
Both sets are PvE sets. Why would you think they aren't? Sure, a DPS isn't wearing them, but you should be wearing a damage set to begin with to maximize DPS.
Symphony is pretty much the staple for PvE healers now. It works out to be 775 resources per second if it procs on cooldown.
@T3hasiangod do you know if Symphony cooldown starts when the effect ends, or once it procs? If the later, it'd be 1,162.5/s equivalent. (I know our other math checks out as the same because if I replace 12 with 18, I get your mentioned 775)0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »
Both sets are PvE sets. Why would you think they aren't? Sure, a DPS isn't wearing them, but you should be wearing a damage set to begin with to maximize DPS.
Symphony is pretty much the staple for PvE healers now. It works out to be 775 resources per second if it procs on cooldown.
@T3hasiangod do you know if Symphony cooldown starts when the effect ends, or once it procs? If the later, it'd be 1,162.5/s equivalent. (I know our other math checks out as the same because if I replace 12 with 18, I get your mentioned 775)
Cooldown begins when the effect starts.
Math is 2325 * 6 / 18Edited by T3hasiangod on June 7, 2019 5:36PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Best Doc suggested is a good way to go, wearing 2 1 pc sustain sets. So, as they pointed out blades is a good healer set to help with group sustain.
However, not sure why you need sustain in a monster set since there are other easy places to get it such as enchants.1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Symphony of blades does not proc on yourself. The set only procs on other players.1 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭As i said in the title, we need sustain monter set. I'm already bored with " when you deal damage you have something something chance to throw damaging lob at the enemy" sets. What was the last sustain set? Engine guardian? Rng based sustain set that become obselete after morrowind patch. What you guys think?
Edit: I'm primarily talking about pve dps.
try asking how some players manage to sustain and gain 0-100 percent health in a 12v1 forever... id like to know how thats still a thing.1
