PvP Beginner Here

Sharpfangjr

I want to give PvP a try with my high elf sorc. I realize this may have a bit of a learning curve, but I really like sorc. Could someone help me out with making an entry level PvP build? I'd like it with pets, but it isn't necessary. Just want something that's simple(as possible) and effective. I've reached the 160 cp point. I still have a bit left before hitting 300 cp. I'll be doing bg's primarily and Cyrodiil later on. I haven't leveled my alliance war. Just did the Cyrodiil intro quests. Thanks.

Vapirko

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

NinchiTV

Having 5 seducer 5 julianos and blood spawn is reliable and easy to get (seducer and juli is craft able, blood spawn is easy to farm monster set) 5 light body 2 heavy shoulders (monster set) go all impen on traits, flame staff infused and your choice of restro staff (defending or powered if you have a heal) backbar or sword and board (sword defending, board impen) personally i love the protective trait on jewelry if you plan on pvping so I got that on two pieces and the 3rd piece is open to whatever trait you want, probably arcane or tri or even bloodthirsty if you dont run an execute. its a very fun class, any more questions feel free to @ me . good luck

raistin87

Go for a different game if you want good pvp. Two main reasons: i) you are forced to do pve content to get proper gear and be competitive and ii) devs are devoting very very limited resources to pvp (both in terms of hardware and in terms of manpower).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Don’t listen to most of these guys.

1 - if you want to learn to PVP jump into the deep end and go with the faction locked 30 day CP enabled campaign. You’ll get better after a few days of taking lumps then you will in a year of avoiding it by going to lesser servers.

2 - Magsorc is a great build for PVP.

3 - if your goal is to get into fights - as opposed to just farming AP - look at your map and port to the center ring. That’s where the action generally is.

4 - if your goal is to avoid fights and just farm AP, stick to the outer keeps and repair them.

5 - you may not get a response if you do a “LFG” and no one knows you, but if you do things like heal, place siege and rez people they will figure out quickly that you can help and you’ll get invited.

The worst thing you can do is play scared or listen to the negative opinions. While Cyrodiil is far from perfect - you’ll have some bad lag every so often - a good offense is better than a good defense. Sure you’ll die a bit, but who cares? Just ride back to the fight. Most people will tell you to equip all impen gear and essentially turtle up like a coward. Don’t be most people.

That said, train your horse cause riding on a 0 speed mount is a death sentence. Also immovable, invisibility and detect potions are your best friends.

I wish you much glory on your conquests!

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

ChunkyCat

Well, first thing you need to do is get into some PvP. You can do this in big open world Cyrodil or in small scale Battlegrounds.

Second thing you’ll need to do is lose a fight. Doesn’t matter how long the fight lasts, just lose. You can try to win, but we all know you’re going to lose anyway. So save yourself some time and just let the other guy have his way with your corpse.

Third thing, and the most important overall, make sure to come back here to the message boards and demand that whatever class you lost to gets a big Nerf.

You’re not a real PvP’er until you come crying for Nerfs on the forums.

Now, run along and have fun.

Davadin

Sharpfangjr wrote: »

I want to give PvP a try with my high elf sorc. I realize this may have a bit of a learning curve, but I really like sorc. Could someone help me out with making an entry level PvP build? I'd like it with pets, but it isn't necessary. Just want something that's simple(as possible) and effective. I've reached the 160 cp point. I still have a bit left before hitting 300 cp. I'll be doing bg's primarily and Cyrodiil later on. I haven't leveled my alliance war. Just did the Cyrodiil intro quests. Thanks.

cp160+ pet sorc asking for help in CP is like a teenager with an fully automated assault rifle saying "can i join your paintball session?"


Boy, you'll be fine.
1. get some shield stacking for "oh ***" moments.
2. impenetrable trait is a must.
3. always carry some potions.

ilcavallo

Sharpfangjr wrote: »

I want to give PvP a try with my high elf sorc. I realize this may have a bit of a learning curve, but I really like sorc. Could someone help me out with making an entry level PvP build? I'd like it with pets, but it isn't necessary. Just want something that's simple(as possible) and effective. I've reached the 160 cp point. I still have a bit left before hitting 300 cp. I'll be doing bg's primarily and Cyrodiil later on. I haven't leveled my alliance war. Just did the Cyrodiil intro quests. Thanks.

Join a pvp guild

Noctus

Sharpfangjr wrote: »

I want to give PvP a try with my high elf sorc. I realize this may have a bit of a learning curve, but I really like sorc. Could someone help me out with making an entry level PvP build? I'd like it with pets, but it isn't necessary. Just want something that's simple(as possible) and effective. I've reached the 160 cp point. I still have a bit left before hitting 300 cp. I'll be doing bg's primarily and Cyrodiil later on. I haven't leveled my alliance war. Just did the Cyrodiil intro quests. Thanks.

watch alcast build videos. many ppl on the forum have little to no experience themselves lol

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Basic 15k spamable with minor vulner+10k penetration against 19k armor :
CRIT WITH TRANS(1.2067 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(4714/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 18100.5 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
18345 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) = 5659 = FINAL DMG

CRIT W/O TRANS(1.414 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21210 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21210 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) = 6543 = FINAL DMG

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) = 8112 = FINAL DMG

8112 is 30% more dmg than under Trans+3300. 19% more dmg than just running 3300. 13% less dmg with trans+ 3300 than just 3300.

Running 3300+trans is like getting major protection compared to running no impen. Wearing just 3300 is like running an extra 12,540 armor.

TLDR; If you are going to run less impen like this suggestion, don't run less than 3300 CHR.

evoniee

juat want to add something
use all impen in armor and shield (if use) + 50cp impen is a must

JumpmanLane

Noctus wrote: »

Sharpfangjr wrote: »

I want to give PvP a try with my high elf sorc. I realize this may have a bit of a learning curve, but I really like sorc. Could someone help me out with making an entry level PvP build? I'd like it with pets, but it isn't necessary. Just want something that's simple(as possible) and effective. I've reached the 160 cp point. I still have a bit left before hitting 300 cp. I'll be doing bg's primarily and Cyrodiil later on. I haven't leveled my alliance war. Just did the Cyrodiil intro quests. Thanks.

watch alcast build videos. many ppl on the forum have little to no experience themselves lol

Don’t run none of that alcast crap in PvP. ON A BET! Lol.

oXI_Viper_IXo

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

Firstmep

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

Having 5 seducer 5 julianos and blood spawn is reliable and easy to get (seducer and juli is craft able, blood spawn is easy to farm monster set) 5 light body 2 heavy shoulders (monster set) go all impen on traits, flame staff infused and your choice of restro staff (defending or powered if you have a heal) backbar or sword and board (sword defending, board impen) personally i love the protective trait on jewelry if you plan on pvping so I got that on two pieces and the 3rd piece is open to whatever trait you want, probably arcane or tri or even bloodthirsty if you dont run an execute. its a very fun class, any more questions feel free to @ me . good luck

Wouldnt go for 2 crafted sets for a new player cuz of jewelry.
Necro is easily farmable and is one of the best sets(if running pets) for sorc.

Sheuib

Half the fun of PvP is figuring out what works for you. So don’t listen to anything here. Go make your own build that works good with the abilities you like to use. Read about sets on ESO wiki and see what looks like it will work. Go play and start paying attention to what is killing you and what helps you get kills. Constantly tweak your build to see if something works better. Doing all of that is much more fun than copying a build from someone else.

Iskiab

Sheuib wrote: »

Half the fun of PvP is figuring out what works for you. So don’t listen to anything here. Go make your own build that works good with the abilities you like to use. Read about sets on ESO wiki and see what looks like it will work. Go play and start paying attention to what is killing you and what helps you get kills. Constantly tweak your build to see if something works better. Doing all of that is much more fun than copying a build from someone else.

Totally agree, but start with the basics.

1 defensive set, 1 sustain set, 1 offensive set. All impen on your gear.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Basic 15k spamable with minor vulner+10k penetration against 19k armor :
CRIT WITH TRANS(1.2067 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(4714/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 18100.5 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
18345 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) = 5659 = FINAL DMG

CRIT W/O TRANS(1.414 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21210 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21210 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) = 6543 = FINAL DMG

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) = 8112 = FINAL DMG

8112 is 30% more dmg than under Trans+3300. 19% more dmg than just running 3300. 13% less dmg with trans+ 3300 than just 3300.

Running 3300+trans is like getting major protection compared to running no impen. Wearing just 3300 is like running an extra 12,540 armor.

TLDR; If you are going to run less impen like this suggestion, don't run less than 3300 CHR.

Even though I’ve played this game for more than 2000 hours, admittedly I have no idea what you just typed.

I just run a lot of shields and heals. Haha. Been working for years.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

Iskiab

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

It's the DMG mitigation formula. It basically sums up to:
- battlespirit is alot of free mitigation
- shields are OP
- block is OP.

What I didn't show you, was that if you ran 3300 crit resists you would be able to save yourself from another two 15k attacks. Meaning 5 total attacks per cast versus 2/3. If you do the cost math, you'll see it's SUPER efficient to run crit resistance regardless of shield/block. Under heavy pressure, your 1k crit resistance has to work harder than someone running 3300. And why give targets free DMG?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

It's the DMG mitigation formula. It basically sums up to:
- battlespirit is alot of free mitigation
- shields are OP
- block is OP.

What I didn't show you, was that if you ran 3300 crit resists you would be able to save yourself from another two 15k attacks. Meaning 5 total attacks per cast versus 2/3. If you do the cost math, you'll see it's SUPER efficient to run crit resistance regardless of shield/block. Under heavy pressure, your 1k crit resistance has to work harder than someone running 3300. And why give targets free DMG?

Gotcha. I definitely figured out a long time ago that shields were OP and those are absolutely my main reason for not being super into crit resist.

Off the top of my head my Templar main has 2 shields with tooltip values around 9k that I rotate along with the small champion and pysiic shields that I can proc. At this point offensively I’m pretty much limited to a 7.5k triple fireball, and pokey sticks which is about 3.5 before the added passive mega bonus on that one. Radiant then comes in about 12k on the tooltip.

I’m assuming you’re a PC player. Console toon building is a lot of guess work. I used to run about 50k magic with 2.5k spell damage unbuffed but now I’m at 40k with about 3.5 that easily buffs up to 4k. At those levels I can faceroll a lot of PVE content, and in practice the only thing I’m really giving up in PVP is, yeah, you can totally one shot me if I’m not paying attention. Luckily I’m almost always on top of things so not a big deal.

Anyway, from your perspective if I kept the same set up and switched, say, 10k magic for 2000 more crit resist how do you think that would play out.

I love a good theory crafting discussion!

Miriel

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Don’t listen to most of these guys.

1 - if you want to learn to PVP jump into the deep end and go with the faction locked 30 day CP enabled campaign. You’ll get better after a few days of taking lumps then you will in a year of avoiding it by going to lesser servers.

2 - Magsorc is a great build for PVP.

3 - if your goal is to get into fights - as opposed to just farming AP - look at your map and port to the center ring. That’s where the action generally is.

4 - if your goal is to avoid fights and just farm AP, stick to the outer keeps and repair them.

5 - you may not get a response if you do a “LFG” and no one knows you, but if you do things like heal, place siege and rez people they will figure out quickly that you can help and you’ll get invited.

The worst thing you can do is play scared or listen to the negative opinions. While Cyrodiil is far from perfect - you’ll have some bad lag every so often - a good offense is better than a good defense. Sure you’ll die a bit, but who cares? Just ride back to the fight. Most people will tell you to equip all impen gear and essentially turtle up like a coward. Don’t be most people.

That said, train your horse cause riding on a 0 speed mount is a death sentence. Also immovable, invisibility and detect potions are your best friends.

I wish you much glory on your conquests!

yea, and if your having fun... your doing it right !

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

It's the DMG mitigation formula. It basically sums up to:
- battlespirit is alot of free mitigation
- shields are OP
- block is OP.

What I didn't show you, was that if you ran 3300 crit resists you would be able to save yourself from another two 15k attacks. Meaning 5 total attacks per cast versus 2/3. If you do the cost math, you'll see it's SUPER efficient to run crit resistance regardless of shield/block. Under heavy pressure, your 1k crit resistance has to work harder than someone running 3300. And why give targets free DMG?

Gotcha. I definitely figured out a long time ago that shields were OP and those are absolutely my main reason for not being super into crit resist.

Off the top of my head my Templar main has 2 shields with tooltip values around 9k that I rotate along with the small champion and pysiic shields that I can proc. At this point offensively I’m pretty much limited to a 7.5k triple fireball, and pokey sticks which is about 3.5 before the added passive mega bonus on that one. Radiant then comes in about 12k on the tooltip.

I’m assuming you’re a PC player. Console toon building is a lot of guess work. I used to run about 50k magic with 2.5k spell damage unbuffed but now I’m at 40k with about 3.5 that easily buffs up to 4k. At those levels I can faceroll a lot of PVE content, and in practice the only thing I’m really giving up in PVP is, yeah, you can totally one shot me if I’m not paying attention. Luckily I’m almost always on top of things so not a big deal.

Anyway, from your perspective if I kept the same set up and switched, say, 10k magic for 2000 more crit resist how do you think that would play out.

I love a good theory crafting discussion!

whats your max mag at currently?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

It's the DMG mitigation formula. It basically sums up to:
- battlespirit is alot of free mitigation
- shields are OP
- block is OP.

What I didn't show you, was that if you ran 3300 crit resists you would be able to save yourself from another two 15k attacks. Meaning 5 total attacks per cast versus 2/3. If you do the cost math, you'll see it's SUPER efficient to run crit resistance regardless of shield/block. Under heavy pressure, your 1k crit resistance has to work harder than someone running 3300. And why give targets free DMG?

Gotcha. I definitely figured out a long time ago that shields were OP and those are absolutely my main reason for not being super into crit resist.

Off the top of my head my Templar main has 2 shields with tooltip values around 9k that I rotate along with the small champion and pysiic shields that I can proc. At this point offensively I’m pretty much limited to a 7.5k triple fireball, and pokey sticks which is about 3.5 before the added passive mega bonus on that one. Radiant then comes in about 12k on the tooltip.

I’m assuming you’re a PC player. Console toon building is a lot of guess work. I used to run about 50k magic with 2.5k spell damage unbuffed but now I’m at 40k with about 3.5 that easily buffs up to 4k. At those levels I can faceroll a lot of PVE content, and in practice the only thing I’m really giving up in PVP is, yeah, you can totally one shot me if I’m not paying attention. Luckily I’m almost always on top of things so not a big deal.

Anyway, from your perspective if I kept the same set up and switched, say, 10k magic for 2000 more crit resist how do you think that would play out.

I love a good theory crafting discussion!

whats your max mag at currently?

At the moment about 41k. I can easily get above 55k if I used a Mage’s Guild heavy set up but I kind of grew tired of that.

My guess is that if I did go with impen I’d probably offset if with some MG skills to cover the magic loss, but as is today, let’s just say 41k for this discussion.

Edit - before you ask, that MG set up used Grace of the Ancients Gold Jewelry. I’m planning on passing it down to my Magsorc when she is fully leveled.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

It's the DMG mitigation formula. It basically sums up to:
- battlespirit is alot of free mitigation
- shields are OP
- block is OP.

What I didn't show you, was that if you ran 3300 crit resists you would be able to save yourself from another two 15k attacks. Meaning 5 total attacks per cast versus 2/3. If you do the cost math, you'll see it's SUPER efficient to run crit resistance regardless of shield/block. Under heavy pressure, your 1k crit resistance has to work harder than someone running 3300. And why give targets free DMG?

Gotcha. I definitely figured out a long time ago that shields were OP and those are absolutely my main reason for not being super into crit resist.

Off the top of my head my Templar main has 2 shields with tooltip values around 9k that I rotate along with the small champion and pysiic shields that I can proc. At this point offensively I’m pretty much limited to a 7.5k triple fireball, and pokey sticks which is about 3.5 before the added passive mega bonus on that one. Radiant then comes in about 12k on the tooltip.

I’m assuming you’re a PC player. Console toon building is a lot of guess work. I used to run about 50k magic with 2.5k spell damage unbuffed but now I’m at 40k with about 3.5 that easily buffs up to 4k. At those levels I can faceroll a lot of PVE content, and in practice the only thing I’m really giving up in PVP is, yeah, you can totally one shot me if I’m not paying attention. Luckily I’m almost always on top of things so not a big deal.

Anyway, from your perspective if I kept the same set up and switched, say, 10k magic for 2000 more crit resist how do you think that would play out.

I love a good theory crafting discussion!

whats your max mag at currently?

At the moment about 41k. I can easily get above 55k if I used a Mage’s Guild heavy set up but I kind of grew tired of that.

My guess is that if I did go with impen I’d probably offset if with some MG skills to cover the magic loss, but as is today, let’s just say 41k for this discussion.

Edit - before you ask, that MG set up used Grace of the Ancients Gold Jewelry. I’m planning on passing it down to my Magsorc when she is fully leveled.

you should be able to get 3300 and 38-40k mag easy.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If you’re low CP I’d try to play in no CP maps or BGs. Youll be at a disadvantage in CP but it’s up to you. A basic setup like bright throat and shackle breaker in a 5/1/1 light armor config should be fine for you to start with. The meta these days for magicka sorc is to use inferno frontbar and SB back bar with the twilight matriarch for heals and damage. Monster set is up to you although learning it might be easiest to run two resistance pieces like two Chudan or a chudan and lord warden if you also want to run boundless storm. You can also run Bloodspawn or whatever suites you. You’ll want to use flame reach, curse, mages wrath, crystal frags and probably streak for sure. Hardened ward and the light armor shield are a definite yes. Dark exchange and crit surge can be useful as well. You’ll have to figure out your own play style. Other good and relatively easy to acquire sets are transmutation w/pets and lich as a backbar set which would let you run a master inferno staff front bar or even a willpower staff for that extra max stat. Good luck and remember for CP you’ll need at least 3000 crit resist so run all impen pieces + CP. And for no CP you’ll obviously just have the value of the armor.

I’ve never run more than 1400 crit resist. It’s a fallacy. A very very very popular fallacy but a fallacy non the less. You can get by with 1000.

Sure, you can get by with almost anything if you're zerg surfing but you'll also be a guaranteed VD proc. Your suggestion that he should jump into Kaal with less than 300 CP and 1000 crit resist is absurd.

No, no. I’m not saying he should do it. I just said it’s possible and not as hard as people make it sound.

But it’s like taking Spanish 402 before Spanish 101. The OP should probably run a few thousand crit resist until he is comfortable.

For anyone else, if you are an experienced PVPer - especially on console because the environments are vastly more different than people acknowledge - you should start stripping away crit resist at every point for more damage until you absolutely cannot take any more. Crit resist, and impen really, is a crutch.

What? I totally disagree.

I think it depends on your environment, just like some of the terrible advice to hold cc’s for your burst combo.

If you’re dueling increasing offensive stats works because it increases your healing as well. As soon as you start playing with one more person this stops working.

Increasing your output (including healing) can help offset 1 person’s damage. Try that against two people and you’ll die every time you’re cc’d.

Sure you can spec to always be solo and complain about getting ‘zerged’ by two people, or you can just not strip out defense so you’re constantly being ganked and bursted.

Been doing it for years. I’ve also been fighting this argument for years. It’s really not that hard and with enough shields (my Templar has 4 shields that stack ((CP, Psjiic, LA, Resto)) and 2 heals ((one burst, one over time))) so you have to be a bit silly but it allows me to still do major damage (since I’m essentially in PVE gear while surviving burst damage. I also chug immovable and invisibility pots like you can’t imagine.

The only real draw back is that I can get ganked off my horse fairly easily. Luckily I gave a max speed mount and rapids along with the 2% mount speed bonus.

So like I said, it CAN work. In my hands it absolutely has worked. But it takes A LOT of work.

The reason it works, is because shields are overperforming lol:

CRIT W/O TRANS AND WITH 1000 CR AS SUGGESTED(1.753 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.9)-(1000/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 26295 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
26295 * (1.08)* (.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.86) - shields (10k+5k+6k) = 8112 - 21000 = 12888 shield leftover.

If you take two 15k attacks, it will be:
8112 *2 = 16224 - 21000 = 4776 shield leftover.

Even under this example, you can get more mitigation running 3300 crit resists because shields just subtract values after crits now (which makes them more OP).

Actually thank you for that. Admittedly I still have no idea what the formula spit out that you typed but I appreciate the explanation at the bottom. Fact is I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but a significant majority of the arguments I’ve had on this subject devolved into ...

- You can’t
- I do
- You lie
- No really, I’m serious
- You’re a troll
- You’re not listening

And so on. If you could legit give me a dumbed down explanation of what that math says I’m more than happy to listen. I’m a big believer of go with what works even if you can’t explain why (I once lost 80 pounds eating chicken an tator tots for a year and still have zero idea how it worked).

Essentially though, I will always argue with people who say the word “can’t” in ESO. Usually it’s a cop out from someone unwilling to try something that may fail. Much respect for your response as that is clearly not the case for you.

It's the DMG mitigation formula. It basically sums up to:
- battlespirit is alot of free mitigation
- shields are OP
- block is OP.

What I didn't show you, was that if you ran 3300 crit resists you would be able to save yourself from another two 15k attacks. Meaning 5 total attacks per cast versus 2/3. If you do the cost math, you'll see it's SUPER efficient to run crit resistance regardless of shield/block. Under heavy pressure, your 1k crit resistance has to work harder than someone running 3300. And why give targets free DMG?

Gotcha. I definitely figured out a long time ago that shields were OP and those are absolutely my main reason for not being super into crit resist.

Off the top of my head my Templar main has 2 shields with tooltip values around 9k that I rotate along with the small champion and pysiic shields that I can proc. At this point offensively I’m pretty much limited to a 7.5k triple fireball, and pokey sticks which is about 3.5 before the added passive mega bonus on that one. Radiant then comes in about 12k on the tooltip.

I’m assuming you’re a PC player. Console toon building is a lot of guess work. I used to run about 50k magic with 2.5k spell damage unbuffed but now I’m at 40k with about 3.5 that easily buffs up to 4k. At those levels I can faceroll a lot of PVE content, and in practice the only thing I’m really giving up in PVP is, yeah, you can totally one shot me if I’m not paying attention. Luckily I’m almost always on top of things so not a big deal.

Anyway, from your perspective if I kept the same set up and switched, say, 10k magic for 2000 more crit resist how do you think that would play out.

I love a good theory crafting discussion!

whats your max mag at currently?

At the moment about 41k. I can easily get above 55k if I used a Mage’s Guild heavy set up but I kind of grew tired of that.

My guess is that if I did go with impen I’d probably offset if with some MG skills to cover the magic loss, but as is today, let’s just say 41k for this discussion.

Edit - before you ask, that MG set up used Grace of the Ancients Gold Jewelry. I’m planning on passing it down to my Magsorc when she is fully leveled.

you should be able to get 3300 and 38-40k mag easy.

That I agree with. What I doubt is if I’d have enough spell power at that point to do more than a radiant tickle.