Finally with Necromancer we can break out some fresh memes

Recremen

I'll get us started.




Frozen Colossus is a very powerful ult in PvP right now, capable of generating a short-lived giant bonus to damage against all targets in a very sizeable AoE zone. On the one hand, it's immobile so you can't chase people down with it like similar finisher ults such as the Destruction Staff ultimate. On the other hand, 30% bonus damage applied in an AoE is completely unheard of and makes it one of the best skills in any toolkit right now because of how it synergizes with Cyrodiil's baseline constant stream of damage during normal combat. Perhaps most importantly, however, is how the skill appears on screen. Often it will bug out and simply not show up for half the raid, leading to invisible damage and an important debuff that you can't even know to avoid. Almost as bad, when it DOES show up it physically blocks view for a giant area of the screen, making it difficult to see troop movements in tight quarters. Overall this is a very solid skill that helps make Necros immediately relevant in PvP, but its buggy appearance is a problem and it may be a little overtuned in either its damage, its AoE size, or its debuff strength, and one of those things might need to be adjusted.

Baconlad

I think it's perfectly fine for its cost and difficulty of use. I've had one necro use it on me perfectly and secure a kill on me.

One

Uno

Yak

Yao

Even in an outnumbered situation I've had ulti bombs dropped on me, including that bugger and survived two hits from it before I got out of it. And I was on a magplar in three damage sets. It's not bad at all.

Tbh I only see it as something useful for zerging zergs. Drop it on a flag kinda thing. It's just too expensive and unreliable. Try getting hit by my 75 ulti crescent sweep for 16k on burst with burning light. I'd take that over necro ult any day

LoveForElderScrolls

Before this patch I was fine but now my 30k health droping to 0 in half a second. Just not possible to avoid death when 3 or more of these colossus ultimates drops on you. Summerset was fine and psijic skills were not over performing but now necro skills doing over the top damage. I don't know if ZOS trying to sell elsweyr or what. Right now the situation is like when siege was broken about 2 or 3 months ago. If I put my time to learning the game now it's pointless because things are broken and don't work the way they should. Pummeling goliath bash spam is the worst example of that.

Recremen

Baconlad wrote: »

I think it's perfectly fine for its cost and difficulty of use. I've had one necro use it on me perfectly and secure a kill on me.

One

Uno

Yak

Yao

Even in an outnumbered situation I've had ulti bombs dropped on me, including that bugger and survived two hits from it before I got out of it. And I was on a magplar in three damage sets. It's not bad at all.

Tbh I only see it as something useful for zerging zergs. Drop it on a flag kinda thing. It's just too expensive and unreliable. Try getting hit by my 75 ulti crescent sweep for 16k on burst with burning light. I'd take that over necro ult any day

@Baconlad

Yeah I'm talking about group combat here, not 1vX things. Trying to balance around 1vX is futile since the majority of combat happens with large groups clashing against each other. That's why I talked about its large area of effect so much. That's not super important when you're just kiting scrubs around the terrain, but when you're talking about taking keeps and outposts it bears a lot more consideration.

Mr_Walker

We should nerf the ultimate for sure, even though it's seemingly the only skill that's not bugged up the wazoo at the moment.

Recremen

Mr_Walker wrote: »

We should nerf the ultimate for sure, even though it's seemingly the only skill that's not bugged up the wazoo at the moment.

@Mr_Walker

I'm more of the opinion that they fix the bugs reliably AND make the stuff that's overperforming more in line with other skills. Since like, there's no reason we can't have both things.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO ULTI OR GO CRY !

Baconlad

Ah. Good points there OP. If I'd read more I woulda figured out you meant group PvP.

Even still, I disagree. Whatever happens though I'm really neutral on most necro skills. Seemingly weak class

Lucky28

Colossus is good for breaking zergs. in 1v1's it's predictable and easy to step out of. for that reason i think colossus is fine, i mean people are always on about needing ways to kill zergs, well here it is.

outside of that, it's too bad Colossus is the only think mag necro has going for it.

Baconlad wrote: »

I think it's perfectly fine for its cost and difficulty of use. I've had one necro use it on me perfectly and secure a kill on me.

One

Uno

Yak

Yao

Even in an outnumbered situation I've had ulti bombs dropped on me, including that bugger and survived two hits from it before I got out of it. And I was on a magplar in three damage sets. It's not bad at all.

Tbh I only see it as something useful for zerging zergs. Drop it on a flag kinda thing. It's just too expensive and unreliable. Try getting hit by my 75 ulti crescent sweep for 16k on burst with burning light. I'd take that over necro ult any day

that's zerglings tho. someone who knows how to time their skills will take full advantage of the major vuln.

Recremen

Lucky28 wrote: »

Colossus is good for breaking zergs. in 1v1's it's predictable and easy to step out of. for that reason i think colossus is fine, i mean people are always on about needing ways to kill zergs, well here it is.

outside of that, it's too bad Colossus is the only think mag necro has going for it.

Baconlad wrote: »

I think it's perfectly fine for its cost and difficulty of use. I've had one necro use it on me perfectly and secure a kill on me.

One

Uno

Yak

Yao

Even in an outnumbered situation I've had ulti bombs dropped on me, including that bugger and survived two hits from it before I got out of it. And I was on a magplar in three damage sets. It's not bad at all.

Tbh I only see it as something useful for zerging zergs. Drop it on a flag kinda thing. It's just too expensive and unreliable. Try getting hit by my 75 ulti crescent sweep for 16k on burst with burning light. I'd take that over necro ult any day

that's zerglings tho. someone who knows how to time their skills will take full advantage of the major vuln.

@Lucky28

Anything used to "break zergs" just gets used by zergs to maintain supremacy. This is easily observed in the main campaign of PC NA, where zergs toss these out at each other and good coordinated groups (still with 16+ people so still "zerging" by many standards) also toss these out, but more effectively than generic zergs.

Basically, there's nothing that will actually ever break zergs. But you can at least make sure it's a balanced skill so that the zergs don't have an undue advantage (beyond sheer numbers) over those coordinated 16+ groups.

Lucky28

Recremen wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Colossus is good for breaking zergs. in 1v1's it's predictable and easy to step out of. for that reason i think colossus is fine, i mean people are always on about needing ways to kill zergs, well here it is.

outside of that, it's too bad Colossus is the only think mag necro has going for it.

Baconlad wrote: »

I think it's perfectly fine for its cost and difficulty of use. I've had one necro use it on me perfectly and secure a kill on me.

One

Uno

Yak

Yao

Even in an outnumbered situation I've had ulti bombs dropped on me, including that bugger and survived two hits from it before I got out of it. And I was on a magplar in three damage sets. It's not bad at all.

Tbh I only see it as something useful for zerging zergs. Drop it on a flag kinda thing. It's just too expensive and unreliable. Try getting hit by my 75 ulti crescent sweep for 16k on burst with burning light. I'd take that over necro ult any day

that's zerglings tho. someone who knows how to time their skills will take full advantage of the major vuln.

@Lucky28

Anything used to "break zergs" just gets used by zergs to maintain supremacy. This is easily observed in the main campaign of PC NA, where zergs toss these out at each other and good coordinated groups (still with 16+ people so still "zerging" by many standards) also toss these out, but more effectively than generic zergs.

Basically, there's nothing that will actually ever break zergs. But you can at least make sure it's a balanced skill so that the zergs don't have an undue advantage (beyond sheer numbers) over those coordinated 16+ groups.

true. the skills get used by zergs, anything intended to kill zergs is going to be powerful thus used by zergs that is an inevitability... this however, does not mean that you can't use said skill to kill a zerg.

zyk

This thread reminds me of EOTS threads from 2016. This ultimate is one of the reasons I'm too revolted to play AvA even though I kind of want to. AvA gameplay is pure cheese from top to bottom.

LukosCreyden

Came here for memes. Found a nerf Magcro topic. Never change, ESO forums.

Recremen

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Came here for memes. Found a nerf Magcro topic. Never change, ESO forums.

Oh honey, I'd never pick on Magcro! Stamcro gets the hammer, too. :-o

LukosCreyden

@Recremen Stamcro maybe. The LAST thing Magcro needs is a nerf.

Lucky28

Recremen wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Came here for memes. Found a nerf Magcro topic. Never change, ESO forums.

Oh honey, I'd never pick on Magcro! Stamcro gets the hammer, too. :-o

i mean they're probably gonna get nerfed before magcro. pummeling is actually OP.

Recremen

Lucky28 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Came here for memes. Found a nerf Magcro topic. Never change, ESO forums.

Oh honey, I'd never pick on Magcro! Stamcro gets the hammer, too. :-o

i mean they're probably gonna get nerfed before magcro. pummeling is actually OP.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised, I only said "Frozen Colossus" because that's the base morph of the skill before you get the stam or mag morphs.

Jaimeh

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Came here for memes. Found a nerf Magcro topic. Never change, ESO forums.

You're losing your touch ESO forums, I'd expect a nerf sorc digression

Grampa_Smurf

Pummeling is not that OP, it's only when you combine it with the S&B passive it gets powerful. But saying that it is an Ulti so shouldn't it be strong?


And if you die from 30k to 0 health in half a sec it is not the Ulti that is the problem.

Lucky28

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

Pummeling is not that OP, it's only when you combine it with the S&B passive it gets powerful. But saying that it is an Ulti so shouldn't it be strong?


And if you die from 30k to 0 health in half a sec it is not the Ulti that is the problem.

Nah dude, the ult is too *** powerful. if pummeling did not give the health boost it would be fine though. i don't mind it hitting hard so long as i can kill the thing.

bosmern_ESO

I'd say maybe nerf the area of effect by a little bit, and leave the damage the same. It would make it harder to keep people in for the 3 slams and at the same time allow people to avoid it, but still take first hit and 30% damage taken, just so its not completely useless. It's really the only thing preventing every Necro to be running Bone Goliath, and i dont think it would be very fun to have that.

You'd still be able to combo your colossus with stuff like time freeze or other ults your group might be running. It would make it more of a skilled ult that could separate the bad from the good.

Recremen

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

I'd say maybe nerf the area of effect by a little bit, and leave the damage the same. It would make it harder to keep people in for the 3 slams and at the same time allow people to avoid it, but still take first hit and 30% damage taken, just so its not completely useless. It's really the only thing preventing every Necro to be running Bone Goliath, and i dont think it would be very fun to have that.

You'd still be able to combo your colossus with stuff like time freeze or other ults your group might be running. It would make it more of a skilled ult that could separate the bad from the good.

That sounds reasonable and good. It's one thing to have a group of good players smack some of these down and wreck another group, it's another thing when every necro baby in a zerg brings a flesh baby to a keep and can blanket the field with them by accident because the AoE is so big. It's already bad enough with siege damage the way it is without these things making you take an additional 30% more damage for free, and easily.

Sanct16

I have to disagree about the frozen colossus being overpowered.

To prevent any misunderstanding: Of course it is a very subjective matter wether something is OP or not and relies heavily on many factors such as the way you build your group, the enemies you fight, the locations you fight in and so on.
So I don't intend to say you're "wrong" in any way but simply explain why the ultimate is quite "bad" in my opinion.

To begin with I'd like to outline the expectations an ultimate has to fullfil in order to be useful in a group and give my opinion on wether colossus does so:
It has to be impactful, reliable and come at a low opportunity cost ( the build /class running it has to be impactful also).

I think we can agree that colossus has a potentially very powerful effect. However it can be very hard to actually find a situation where it is actually impactful because it requires enemies to be very stacked and ideally be very close to you so they actually take damage from other sources.
When you push as a raid it often happens that enemies try to run away and scatter out making colossus hard/impossible to place properly.

If we look at similar ultimates and compare it to Shifting Standard for example:
Standard lasts 28 seconds and can be placed multiple times. 30% healdebuff is a bit worse than 30% damage taken however it's still very strong and a lot more reliable as it can be placed multiple times.
It also gives a powerful synergy each time it is placed again.

To sum it up: Imo Colossus is weaker than banner which I wouldn't call op either. Having 1-2 Colossi can be good for pinishing ballgroups that stack hsrd on each other but imo it's more a support ultimate that has to compete with Nova/Banner/Negate and doesn't outperform either of these ultimates consistently imo (perhaps nova tho thats mostly used for the oneshot-synergy with harmony).

In terms of the ult being used against groups I think it's mostly a problem of positioning/movement. If you use line of sight properly and constantly move around you shouldnt have a problem. From my experience it's way less punishing to run through some colossi than through some negates in most situations.

Lord-Stien

Need more memes....

ellahellabella

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Need more memes....

I agree. Lemme put one in.


Trying to hit someone with blastbones be like:

Recremen

ellahellabella wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Need more memes....

I agree. Lemme put one in.


Trying to hit someone with blastbones be like:

Finally some good *** meme.

Luckylancer

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

Pummeling is not that OP, it's only when you combine it with the S&B passive it gets powerful. But saying that it is an Ulti so shouldn't it be strong?


And if you die from 30k to 0 health in half a sec it is not the Ulti that is the problem.

You cant seperate an ulti and a passive that works too good together. Everyone that hate getting pummeled talk about s&b version.

I have 27k phsy ressist + 33k hp + minor protection on my magden. A stamcro goliath gap closed to me then I died without realising whats happened.

Another example: fengrush clicks ult, pot, gap close and DELETE people instantly. The problem is Ulti.