Who should slot & use the Warhorn Ultimate - healers or tanks?

daemondamian

If you look at the healer builds by Alcast for Templar and Necromancer healers as well as the builds for Dragonknight and Necromancer tanks they each recommend having Aggressive Warhorn slotted as one of your ultimates so who should slot it - healers or tanks?

redspecter23

It only matters for Vet content or trials and not PuGs and normal dungeons

Warhorn in an average pug is a complete waste of an ultimate slot. Any damage ultimate you slot (even on a tank) is probably more dps than the horn would add to a jumble of puglets.

Wyrd88

It only matters for Vet content or trials and not PuGs and normal dungeons

In PUGs I don't expect Horn at all, but when I run with my group both healer and tank uses Horn.

Sure there is other ultis that would be better in certain situations like Barrier, Magma or even Nova, but overal Horn>other ultis most of the time.

Elwendryll

It only matters for Vet content or trials and not PuGs and normal dungeons

Where is the "Both should use it" option?
In normal dungeons one warhorn is often enough to cover the whole length of a boss fight. But in vet, sure.

MartiniDaniels

Both should use it like default ultimate with exception of situations when other ulti is required by mechanic, or using selfish ulti is only way to survive this encounter.

John_Falstaff

It's... a no-brainer, really. Both tank and healer are support roles, and Aggressive Warhorn is a good support ultimate, so when situation does not require any other ultimate (and sure there are situations when you want to pop Corrosive or Barrier in a tight situation), it always makes sense to use Warhorn. And everything else that boosts the group, really. It's just in pug dungeon runs, it's harder to coordinate since you're usually neither on voice nor have ultimate sharing, but it just takes asking in chat "whose warhorn first?" to roughly sort it out and avoid overlaps.

P.S.: Didn't voice since there's no simple option "yes, both should use it". The poll is ill-formed like that.

p00tx

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

Both should have it slotted and both should use it, unless their other ulti is needed, which it rarely is outside of situational necessity.

darkblue5

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

Both should slot it. Both should cast it in fights. In a pug you may want to discuss if the healer wants to use the first Warhorn, and then have the tank use the second Warhorn in a boss fight.

Warhorns still noticeably help most PUGs.

Healers and tanks both use Warhorns to get higher uptimes on the buffs without having both go for the highest ulti-gen builds.

Cerra

There's a better ultimate that can be slotted by either healers or tanks instead of Warhorn

There are better ultimates out there. Warhorn is a PVP skill, I don't even bother with it.

zvavi

John_Falstaff wrote: »

It's... a no-brainer, really. Both tank and healer are support roles, and Aggressive Warhorn is a good support ultimate, so when situation does not require any other ultimate (and sure there are situations when you want to pop Corrosive or Barrier in a tight situation), it always makes sense to use Warhorn. And everything else that boosts the group, really. It's just in pug dungeon runs, it's harder to coordinate since you're usually neither on voice nor have ultimate sharing, but it just takes asking in chat "whose warhorn first?" to roughly sort it out and avoid overlaps.

P.S.: Didn't voice since there's no simple option "yes, both should use it". The poll is ill-formed like that.

^this

Silver_Strider

Both should use Warhorn and I absolutely despise that about the Ultimate.

idk

The answer is easy. Both roles slot it though both roles slot something else on the other bar.

For anyone that wants to tank or heal the more challenging content they will find any raid leader of a decent group will require that by both healers and tanks.

In actual use, there are exceptions that some fights the raid leader may request a different ultimate but most of the time, for most boss fights WH is what both roles will use.

Edit: What it comes down to is what your raid leader or guild leader asks. If they want you to run a specific skill or set to help the group then you do it. If that is a problem for you then you find a different group. While very rare in serious guilds, I have seen players who were not flexible with their build, refused to wear common sets for tanking or healing, and they were not selected for the core team.

vesselwiththepestle

In dungeons where the boss only survives one horn the healer can slot destro ulti imo.

As a general rule both use it, not at the same time ofc.

wishlist14

It only matters for Vet content or trials and not PuGs and normal dungeons

I pug ntrials atm and I see/ hear it being used but our whole group cant make the most of it cause it's not being called out. Maybe tank and heals are on discord and communicating. I got tired of holding onto my ulti waiting for wh lol so i thought im just going to use it when it's up regardless of wh since im sure wh wasnt being used effectively. I've been in groups on discord and the wh callouts means more efficient use of wh, obviously.

mocap

There's a better ultimate that can be slotted by either healers or tanks instead of Warhorn

Barrier 24/7

SoLooney

All the tanks and healers should have warhorn, might change if necro tanks and healers become a thing

idk

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

It has bee a long time since Barrier was given serious thought on a regular basis for raid groups. When we started getting sets to buff the groups damage like SPC and Alkosh that the thoughts leaned even more towards buffing the groups damage, especially around the time TG was released.

WH is king/queen of support role ultimates.

Tasear

I wish they made other ultimates more of option. It's war horn always now unless you are nercomancer or Sorc in dungeons.

P.S

Don't forget fellow healers to join community Discord https://discord.gg/PVaRhb6

ATomiX96

Both should have it slotted at least, I mean you have 2 bars so you can always slot something defensive if needed on the other bar.

Rev Rielle

There's a better ultimate that can be slotted by either healers or tanks instead of Warhorn

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

Absolutely. These days with the power creep, there is basically hardly ever a dps problem in groups. As such Warhorn (Aggressive or otherwise) doesn't really help the situation much. Barrier on the other hand helps volumes; it can easily make the difference between a wipe or a success simply by its prudent use. As a healer I always have it ready for those "oh gods, the dps isn't really standing there whilst X attack is just about to happen are they?" moments, and there are plenty of those.

Donny_Vito

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

Cerra wrote: »

There are better ultimates out there. Warhorn is a PVP skill, I don't even bother with it.

Give me the list of better group-focused Ultimates, please.

John_Falstaff

Rev Rielle wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

Absolutely. These days with the power creep, there is basically hardly ever a dps problem in groups. As such Warhorn (Aggressive or otherwise) doesn't really help the situation much. Barrier on the other hand helps volumes; it can easily make the difference between a wipe or a success simply by its prudent use. As a healer I always have it ready for those "oh gods, the dps isn't really standing there whilst X attack is just about to happen are they?" moments, and there are plenty of those.

Warhorn occupies just one ultimate slot. The gods saw fit to grace us with a spare. ^^

Rev Rielle

There's a better ultimate that can be slotted by either healers or tanks instead of Warhorn

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

Absolutely. These days with the power creep, there is basically hardly ever a dps problem in groups. As such Warhorn (Aggressive or otherwise) doesn't really help the situation much. Barrier on the other hand helps volumes; it can easily make the difference between a wipe or a success simply by its prudent use. As a healer I always have it ready for those "oh gods, the dps isn't really standing there whilst X attack is just about to happen are they?" moments, and there are plenty of those.

Warhorn occupies just one ultimate slot. The gods saw fit to grace us with a spare. ^^

Its use is almost always waste. That was my point.

Reverb

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

Both 3 and 4 are correct. It really doesn’t matter for normal or most vet pugs. That said I do use it on my tanks in pugs because I can’t be bothered to slot anything else. In my healers I use a damage ulti.

In coordinated groups tank(s) and healer(s) should all have it and work out who will slot and use it. Often you want 2-3 people to slot it for 100% uptime in trial boss fights.

Vietfox

There's a better ultimate that can be slotted by either healers or tanks instead of Warhorn

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

I prefer consuming darkness.

John_Falstaff

Rev Rielle wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

Absolutely. These days with the power creep, there is basically hardly ever a dps problem in groups. As such Warhorn (Aggressive or otherwise) doesn't really help the situation much. Barrier on the other hand helps volumes; it can easily make the difference between a wipe or a success simply by its prudent use. As a healer I always have it ready for those "oh gods, the dps isn't really standing there whilst X attack is just about to happen are they?" moments, and there are plenty of those.

Warhorn occupies just one ultimate slot. The gods saw fit to grace us with a spare. ^^

Its use is almost always waste. That was my point.

"Almost always" begs to be backed up with statistics. Subject to personal experience; if you run with bad groups that struggle with a lot of content - you will see Barrier to be more useful than Warhorn. If you run with well-knit groups that seldom get into a tight spot, or an easier content - your Barrier will be sitting idly on your front bar, performing the greatest function it's capable to perform on a smooth run - namely giving you 10% magicka regen. (Which is why it's a great ultimate to slot on the front... and hopefully never use.)

Rev Rielle

There's a better ultimate that can be slotted by either healers or tanks instead of Warhorn

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Barrier 24/7

Absolutely. These days with the power creep, there is basically hardly ever a dps problem in groups. As such Warhorn (Aggressive or otherwise) doesn't really help the situation much. Barrier on the other hand helps volumes; it can easily make the difference between a wipe or a success simply by its prudent use. As a healer I always have it ready for those "oh gods, the dps isn't really standing there whilst X attack is just about to happen are they?" moments, and there are plenty of those.

Warhorn occupies just one ultimate slot. The gods saw fit to grace us with a spare. ^^

Its use is almost always waste. That was my point.

"Almost always" begs to be backed up with statistics. Subject to personal experience; if you run with bad groups that struggle with a lot of content - you will see Barrier to be more useful than Warhorn. If you run with well-knit groups that seldom get into a tight spot, or an easier content - your Barrier will be sitting idly on your front bar, performing the greatest function it's capable to perform on a smooth run - namely giving you 10% magicka regen. (Which is why it's a great ultimate to slot on the front... and hopefully never use.)

Yes, that's likely true.

When you look at the player base as a whole, from experience Barrier is far more useful than Warhorn. For the reasons already stated. As someone that has used both, a lot, Barrier is just better. For veteran trials, of course it's not better. But the minority shouldn't take precedent over the majority. That would be misleading and disingenuous to players reading this to learn something. That's where the 'almost always' comes from, no statistics needed, it's just obvious when looking at the bigger picture.

Suddwrath

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

Both. Both should have it and both should use it.

In dungeons usually the healer will use their horn at the start of the boss fight and after that one wears off the tank will then use their warhorn. This is mostly for groups with a DK tank, because if the DK tank uses their horn at the beginning of the fight it will not give them resources back (since they would have full resources). But if the tank uses their horn second it will not only keep up the warhorn uptime but it will also give the tank resources. However, this only applies to groups with a DK tank.

In trials, both tanks and both healers should have warhorn slotted. That will give the group the highest uptime in the buff which leads to higher group dps.

Donny_Vito

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

I see people saying "other ultimates are better" but they don't give any examples. What....Barrier?

There is, unfortunately, nothing that can compare to adding +30% crit damage to your whole group. Barrier can be helpful in certain situations. Templar/Warden healers can use a healing ultimate in certain situations. The Sorc Negate can be useful in certain situations. The only one that is exceptional in ALL situations is the Aggressive Warhorn...lets not fool ourselves. In Trial groups that clear every type of content, they will have close to 100% uptime on Warhorns which means almost every role player has it slotted on one of their bars. Don't hate the meta, hate the game.

idk

Tasear wrote: »

I wish they made other ultimates more of option. It's war horn always now unless you are nercomancer or Sorc in dungeons.

It will still come down to what is best so in the end choice comes down to the raid leader, not the healer or tank.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Both should have it available but only slot it after discussion beforehand as to who is going to use it

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I see people saying "other ultimates are better" but they don't give any examples. What....Barrier?

There is, unfortunately, nothing that can compare to adding +30% crit damage to your whole group. Barrier can be helpful in certain situations. Templar/Warden healers can use a healing ultimate in certain situations. The Sorc Negate can be useful in certain situations. The only one that is exceptional in ALL situations is the Aggressive Warhorn...lets not fool ourselves. In Trial groups that clear every type of content, they will have close to 100% uptime on Warhorns which means almost every role player has it slotted on one of their bars. Don't hate the meta, hate the game.

Warhorn is a flat 15% addative to your crit hit damage, has been for a long time. As for barrier, I would say having DPS alive more then dead would be comparable.