[Magicka DK Build] for Elsweyr [BattleRoar 3.0] 5,000 Spell Damage, 19k Stam, Amazing Resists

NirnStorm

Hello everyone!

Here's my MagDK build updated for the Elsweyr patch!
Hope you'll like it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VeRaNkp0nk
(Gameplay in the end)


Build Stats:
* 32k Mag
* 27k Health
* 19k Stam

* 3.5k Spell damage unbuffed
* 5k Spell damage buffed
* 36% Crit chance
* 12.5k Penetration (with eledrain)

* 33k Phys resist
* 34k Spell resist
* 3k Crit resist

Setup Info:
* 5x Rattlecage (Body + Jewelry)
* 3x Burning SpellWeave (Body)
* 2x Burning SpellWeave (Front bar)
* 2x Death's Wind (Back Bar)
* 2x Bloodspawn

* 5x light 2x heavy
* All impen, 5x triglyphs 2x mag glyphs
* 3x infused jewelry - 2x recovery glyphs 1x damage glyph

* Front bar (Nirn Inferno staff, berserk enchant):
Burning Embers / Molten Whip / Engulfing Flames / Fossilize / Elemental Drain / Ferocious Leap.

* Back bar (Defending Sword + Sturdy Shield, Mag Enchant):
Deep Thoughts / Dragon Fire Scales / Coagulating Blood / Race Against Time / Volatile Armor / Undo.


I hope you liked the build, let me know your thoughts!


P.S.
I'll be posting on this thread once I have additional gameplay videos to link.

Edit:
As promised, here's my first gameplay video with this build this patch. I hope you'll enjoy!
https://youtu.be/F9jslGrXUHM

Ophelan

I've also been running Race Against Time on backbar this patch, I had always felt magDK's greatest weakness is the lack of the ability to disengage when getting focused in melee and this definitely solves the problem for me.

Do you run this is no CP at all? Seems like sustain would be an issue.

pieratsos

You are doing something very wrong. Some experts in these forums say that DK cant have resistances, dmg and sustain. They say that if you have good dmg then you are surely in light armor with 10k resistances and no sustain and that if you have good resistances then you are surely in heavy with 800 regen and zero dmg. So you must be doing something wrong. Maybe you are cheating.

Ankaridan

pieratsos wrote: »

You are doing something very wrong. Some experts in these forums say that DK cant have resistances, dmg and sustain. They say that if you have good dmg then you are surely in light armor with 10k resistances and no sustain and that if you have good resistances then you are surely in heavy with 800 regen and zero dmg. So you must be doing something wrong. Maybe you are cheating.

This build is clearly oriented towards CP play.

In No-CP, this build will show its weaknesses very quickly.

pieratsos

Ankaridan wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

You are doing something very wrong. Some experts in these forums say that DK cant have resistances, dmg and sustain. They say that if you have good dmg then you are surely in light armor with 10k resistances and no sustain and that if you have good resistances then you are surely in heavy with 800 regen and zero dmg. So you must be doing something wrong. Maybe you are cheating.

This build is clearly oriented towards CP play.

In No-CP, this build will show its weaknesses very quickly.

Just like every other build that transitions from cp to no cp. Unless we are at the point where losing ur cp only affects dks.

The_Lex

What would be a good modification if I wanted to use this in no CP?

Dealdrick

fun looking build! I'd love to see a nonCP / BG version of this build

red_emu

The_Lex wrote: »

What would be a good modification if I wanted to use this in no CP?

You need to make your own build..nobody does Non-CP builds, as then they can't show off their 5000000 spell damage and 200k penetration.

red_emu

Overall MagDK is very strong this patch, so expect a looooooot of nerfs soon (especially to the seething fury stacks - it will be made completely useless very soon)

DKsUnite

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

JumpmanLane

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Rattlecage SEEMS good on paper but is so underwhelming in practice, even rattlecage weapons and jewelry. It’s easier to stack magicka than spell damage.

Never liked proc Sets either. Nice rattlecage build but nah...

NirnStorm

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

I honestly feel like it's a matter of personal preference.
Rattle gives you 1k health, 360 spell damage AND major sorc. Then I use tristat pots for sustain.
I feel like it is more efficient to me this way, since I can choose when to cash in my resource (could be any or few of the three) based on need and timing, whereas my damage is more consistent. However you could just as easily run some sustain set and use spell power pots for damage windows, sure.

As for damage sets, I find most of the typical spell damage or pen sets to not be very effective as they usually aren't 'pure' spell damage. I.E:
Sun and Spinners are strong don't buff heals
Axiom doesn't buff LA weaves
Alchemist is amaze but has to be tied to pot and timed with BSW, which limits the amount of burst windows.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Rattlecage SEEMS good on paper but is so underwhelming in practice, even rattlecage weapons and jewelry. It’s easier to stack magicka than spell damage.

People say this a lot, but it's simply not true.
It's more beneficial to stack mag, if you use shields or pets, since their efficiency scales off max mag and not spell damage. However, it's easier to stack damage, since you have a 20% scalable buff (major sorcery) which you lack for max mag.

The reason stam builds typically stack damage and mag builds typically stack max mag, is because:
1) Stam has several damage sets that buff wep damage that mag lacks (which gets better value with maj brutality).
2) Stam doesn't need to stack max stat since they don't have pets and shields to benefit from it.
3) Several mag classes have built-in means to stack max mag, via necro-enabling-pets or passives that effect the stats.

Playing a class with no easy necro activation, nor shields, I find it far more beneficial to stack spell damage.

As a comparison, a build using alfiq and btb stacking mag will typically have roughly 2.5k spd and 45k mag, which translates to 7k effective damage, whereas my build on its burst windows has 5k spd and 32k max mag which translates to 8.2k effective damage.

NirnStorm

@Ophelan @The_Lex @Dealdrick

This build isn't made for nonCP, so I don't feel like it would be ideal there, even though I tend to use it in BGs just the way it is. It's a little weak on the sustain, and in nonCP environment will run out of mag fairly quickly.

Still, many people on my stream want adaptations for this build rather than finding a build that is meant for nonCP, so I tested it out last patch and IMO what you'd want to do is change enchants/mundus to mag regen, and throw in one protective jewelry trait.
It will still be very bursty while little challenging to sustain, but the gameplay feels like A LOT of fun, and kills are very rewarding

Zurigorria

For the skeptics or ignorants, try the build. if you don´t like it afterwords use a different one and most of all, enjoy tMgDK, and thank ppl like @NirnStorm for sharing his build.

JumpmanLane

NirnStorm wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

I honestly feel like it's a matter of personal preference.
Rattle gives you 1k health, 360 spell damage AND major sorc. Then I use tristat pots for sustain.
I feel like it is more efficient to me this way, since I can choose when to cash in my resource (could be any or few of the three) based on need and timing, whereas my damage is more consistent. However you could just as easily run some sustain set and use spell power pots for damage windows, sure.

As for damage sets, I find most of the typical spell damage or pen sets to not be very effective as they usually aren't 'pure' spell damage. I.E:
Sun and Spinners are strong don't buff heals
Axiom doesn't buff LA weaves
Alchemist is amaze but has to be tied to pot and timed with BSW, which limits the amount of burst windows.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Rattlecage SEEMS good on paper but is so underwhelming in practice, even rattlecage weapons and jewelry. It’s easier to stack magicka than spell damage.

People say this a lot, but it's simply not true.
It's more beneficial to stack mag, if you use shields or pets, since their efficiency scales off max mag and not spell damage. However, it's easier to stack damage, since you have a 20% scalable buff (major sorcery) which you lack for max mag.

The reason stam builds typically stack damage and mag builds typically stack max mag, is because:
1) Stam has several damage sets that buff wep damage that mag lacks (which gets better value with maj brutality).
2) Stam doesn't need to stack max stat since they don't have pets and shields to benefit from it.
3) Several mag classes have built-in means to stack max mag, via necro-enabling-pets or passives that effect the stats.

Playing a class with no easy necro activation, nor shields, I find it far more beneficial to stack spell damage.

As a comparison, a build using alfiq and btb stacking mag will typically have roughly 2.5k spd and 45k mag, which translates to 7k effective damage, whereas my build on its burst windows has 5k spd and 32k max mag which translates to 8.2k effective damage.

look dude. it is a nice build. but i've tried all that.Infused jewelry , all that Rattlecage is a set I always come back to thinking about but I finally just dropped it because I can get maj sorcery too easily. BSW also underwelming, your burst window is rng. 15% chance every 12 seconds. And Molten? c'mon who are you fighting. You'll get all that off on pugs but against dangerous folks I'd rather have the heal of flamelash.

Me personally. I just like always on damage. But I will tell you this though. if you can get everything off skill-wise in a fight against a compentent player I applaud your skill.

WoppaBoem

NirnStorm wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

I honestly feel like it's a matter of personal preference.
Rattle gives you 1k health, 360 spell damage AND major sorc. Then I use tristat pots for sustain.
I feel like it is more efficient to me this way, since I can choose when to cash in my resource (could be any or few of the three) based on need and timing, whereas my damage is more consistent. However you could just as easily run some sustain set and use spell power pots for damage windows, sure.

As for damage sets, I find most of the typical spell damage or pen sets to not be very effective as they usually aren't 'pure' spell damage. I.E:
Sun and Spinners are strong don't buff heals
Axiom doesn't buff LA weaves
Alchemist is amaze but has to be tied to pot and timed with BSW, which limits the amount of burst windows.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Rattlecage SEEMS good on paper but is so underwhelming in practice, even rattlecage weapons and jewelry. It’s easier to stack magicka than spell damage.

People say this a lot, but it's simply not true.
It's more beneficial to stack mag, if you use shields or pets, since their efficiency scales off max mag and not spell damage. However, it's easier to stack damage, since you have a 20% scalable buff (major sorcery) which you lack for max mag.

The reason stam builds typically stack damage and mag builds typically stack max mag, is because:
1) Stam has several damage sets that buff wep damage that mag lacks (which gets better value with maj brutality).
2) Stam doesn't need to stack max stat since they don't have pets and shields to benefit from it.
3) Several mag classes have built-in means to stack max mag, via necro-enabling-pets or passives that effect the stats.

Playing a class with no easy necro activation, nor shields, I find it far more beneficial to stack spell damage.

As a comparison, a build using alfiq and btb stacking mag will typically have roughly 2.5k spd and 45k mag, which translates to 7k effective damage, whereas my build on its burst windows has 5k spd and 32k max mag which translates to 8.2k effective damage.

The last part strikes me as odd. I am running Bright - Spinners and my base line only major sorcery is already way above 8.2K effective damage. I am working on a set up that if the fiery stacks are up and weapon enchant is procced I am going towards 12K effective damage. However in your defence before this post I spotted your video and your gameplay and use of skills looks good so well done. And for the camps spell damage or max magica. What works best in this game is dont stack to much of anything, create strong penetration, spell damage and max magica. I find to much of one thing gives diminishing returns.

This is my base version, as stated I can push the effective damage way up but I keep this for myself and also still need to do a lot of testing : https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=139924

NirnStorm

JumpmanLane wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

I honestly feel like it's a matter of personal preference.
Rattle gives you 1k health, 360 spell damage AND major sorc. Then I use tristat pots for sustain.
I feel like it is more efficient to me this way, since I can choose when to cash in my resource (could be any or few of the three) based on need and timing, whereas my damage is more consistent. However you could just as easily run some sustain set and use spell power pots for damage windows, sure.

As for damage sets, I find most of the typical spell damage or pen sets to not be very effective as they usually aren't 'pure' spell damage. I.E:
Sun and Spinners are strong don't buff heals
Axiom doesn't buff LA weaves
Alchemist is amaze but has to be tied to pot and timed with BSW, which limits the amount of burst windows.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Rattlecage SEEMS good on paper but is so underwhelming in practice, even rattlecage weapons and jewelry. It’s easier to stack magicka than spell damage.

People say this a lot, but it's simply not true.
It's more beneficial to stack mag, if you use shields or pets, since their efficiency scales off max mag and not spell damage. However, it's easier to stack damage, since you have a 20% scalable buff (major sorcery) which you lack for max mag.

The reason stam builds typically stack damage and mag builds typically stack max mag, is because:
1) Stam has several damage sets that buff wep damage that mag lacks (which gets better value with maj brutality).
2) Stam doesn't need to stack max stat since they don't have pets and shields to benefit from it.
3) Several mag classes have built-in means to stack max mag, via necro-enabling-pets or passives that effect the stats.

Playing a class with no easy necro activation, nor shields, I find it far more beneficial to stack spell damage.

As a comparison, a build using alfiq and btb stacking mag will typically have roughly 2.5k spd and 45k mag, which translates to 7k effective damage, whereas my build on its burst windows has 5k spd and 32k max mag which translates to 8.2k effective damage.

look dude. it is a nice build. but i've tried all that.Infused jewelry , all that Rattlecage is a set I always come back to thinking about but I finally just dropped it because I can get maj sorcery too easily. BSW also underwelming, your burst window is rng. 15% chance every 12 seconds. And Molten? c'mon who are you fighting. You'll get all that off on pugs but against dangerous folks I'd rather have the heal of flamelash.

Me personally. I just like always on damage. But I will tell you this though. if you can get everything off skill-wise in a fight against a compentent player I applaud your skill.

People tend to under appreciate an extra slot. That extra slot could be engulfing flames, so 10% more damage. Or RAT so snare immunity and speed. An extra slot on your bar imo is not worth much less than a 5 piece bonus of a set. Plus, it gives you 100 spell damage in the 5pc of rattle in addition to the skill slot, and the 2-4 bonuses are perfect. So, I think it's 100% worth.

And you mixed up BSW pretty bad.
Its 15% * # of flame attacks on the enemy per second (include your dots) to proc for 8 seconds. My uptime on it on CMX shows at about 64%, and that's a lot more than the time I need to have for burst windows.
It's by far the best damage set for a setup like mine IMO.
And yes, molten is an amazing morph now after the patch. I've been hitting 16k whips in openworld and many 10k~ whips in duels against great players.
You should give it a shot before trying to dismiss a playstyle that isn't exactly what you are used to.

WoppaBoem wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

I honestly feel like it's a matter of personal preference.
Rattle gives you 1k health, 360 spell damage AND major sorc. Then I use tristat pots for sustain.
I feel like it is more efficient to me this way, since I can choose when to cash in my resource (could be any or few of the three) based on need and timing, whereas my damage is more consistent. However you could just as easily run some sustain set and use spell power pots for damage windows, sure.

As for damage sets, I find most of the typical spell damage or pen sets to not be very effective as they usually aren't 'pure' spell damage. I.E:
Sun and Spinners are strong don't buff heals
Axiom doesn't buff LA weaves
Alchemist is amaze but has to be tied to pot and timed with BSW, which limits the amount of burst windows.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Rattlecage SEEMS good on paper but is so underwhelming in practice, even rattlecage weapons and jewelry. It’s easier to stack magicka than spell damage.

People say this a lot, but it's simply not true.
It's more beneficial to stack mag, if you use shields or pets, since their efficiency scales off max mag and not spell damage. However, it's easier to stack damage, since you have a 20% scalable buff (major sorcery) which you lack for max mag.

The reason stam builds typically stack damage and mag builds typically stack max mag, is because:
1) Stam has several damage sets that buff wep damage that mag lacks (which gets better value with maj brutality).
2) Stam doesn't need to stack max stat since they don't have pets and shields to benefit from it.
3) Several mag classes have built-in means to stack max mag, via necro-enabling-pets or passives that effect the stats.

Playing a class with no easy necro activation, nor shields, I find it far more beneficial to stack spell damage.

As a comparison, a build using alfiq and btb stacking mag will typically have roughly 2.5k spd and 45k mag, which translates to 7k effective damage, whereas my build on its burst windows has 5k spd and 32k max mag which translates to 8.2k effective damage.

The last part strikes me as odd. I am running Bright - Spinners and my base line only major sorcery is already way above 8.2K effective damage. I am working on a set up that if the fiery stacks are up and weapon enchant is procced I am going towards 12K effective damage. However in your defence before this post I spotted your video and your gameplay and use of skills looks good so well done. And for the camps spell damage or max magica. What works best in this game is dont stack to much of anything, create strong penetration, spell damage and max magica. I find to much of one thing gives diminishing returns.

This is my base version, as stated I can push the effective damage way up but I keep this for myself and also still need to do a lot of testing : https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=139924

Hey good call man, it's my bad with the effective spell damage calc. I was only referencing the spell damage + max mag/10 part of the equation. Putting my stats into the UESP calc I have slightly over 10500 effective spell damage, so yes my mistake.

Also I agree its great to have good stat, damage and pen all together. But at the same time, spell damage gets 20% more value from maj sorc so I enjoy stacking it!
I currently run 32k mag, 5k spell damage and 12.5k pen (with eledrain).
And I'm glad you liked my gameplay!

It's really nice having someone discuss and compare stats with me on this post rather than just say nah and not provide reasoning. I always enjoy comparing stats, it's the best way imo to learn how to improve our setups!
Looking forward to your take on this!

Vildebill

I've been trying out a modified version of your build (mostly because I don't want to change a lot of stuff because I PvE on my MagDK as well ) and I like it a lot. Good damage and really tanky.

Can't really make up my mind about SnB or Ice Staff though, I prefer a Maelstrom Ice Staff which both snares with WoE and gives me some extra damage on my light attacks. Is the only reason you switched to SnB this patch that WoE snare was nerfed to 40%? What more are you gaining since block and resistances seems to be quite the same?

Datolite

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Especially since DK gets MajSorc for free... waste of a 5pc.

NirnStorm

Datolite wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Especially since DK gets MajSorc for free... waste of a 5pc.

Uhm that is simply not true? Mdk can get it through a skill, a 5pc or a pot like literally any other class.

Vildebill wrote: »

I've been trying out a modified version of your build (mostly because I don't want to change a lot of stuff because I PvE on my MagDK as well ) and I like it a lot. Good damage and really tanky.

Can't really make up my mind about SnB or Ice Staff though, I prefer a Maelstrom Ice Staff which both snares with WoE and gives me some extra damage on my light attacks. Is the only reason you switched to SnB this patch that WoE snare was nerfed to 40%? What more are you gaining since block and resistances seems to be quite the same?

Hey that's awesome! I'm glad you're enjoying it! I'm sure having a blast playing it

And to your question, it's more that I was looking to find a slot to replace with RAT since it's such a great skill.
With the snare reduction and new root cooldown, and with snare removal tools becoming more and more common, I felt that WoE became my least important skill, and thanks to the maj exp from RAT I could afford playing without it
Then with no destro skill on the back bar, I could easily swap the ice staff to a SnB for the minor resists, blocking movement speed, mag enchant for the shield, etc. etc.

Vildebill

NirnStorm wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Especially since DK gets MajSorc for free... waste of a 5pc.

Uhm that is simply not true? Mdk can get it through a skill, a 5pc or a pot like literally any other class.

Vildebill wrote: »

I've been trying out a modified version of your build (mostly because I don't want to change a lot of stuff because I PvE on my MagDK as well ) and I like it a lot. Good damage and really tanky.

Can't really make up my mind about SnB or Ice Staff though, I prefer a Maelstrom Ice Staff which both snares with WoE and gives me some extra damage on my light attacks. Is the only reason you switched to SnB this patch that WoE snare was nerfed to 40%? What more are you gaining since block and resistances seems to be quite the same?

Hey that's awesome! I'm glad you're enjoying it! I'm sure having a blast playing it

And to your question, it's more that I was looking to find a slot to replace with RAT since it's such a great skill.
With the snare reduction and new root cooldown, and with snare removal tools becoming more and more common, I felt that WoE became my least important skill, and thanks to the maj exp from RAT I could afford playing without it
Then with no destro skill on the back bar, I could easily swap the ice staff to a SnB for the minor resists, blocking movement speed, mag enchant for the shield, etc. etc.

Sounds logical thanks!

Datolite

NirnStorm wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I never understood running rattlecage. I would say swap rattle for more damage and run spell power pots which also gives you major crit.

Especially since DK gets MajSorc for free... waste of a 5pc.

Uhm that is simply not true? Mdk can get it through a skill, a 5pc or a pot like literally any other class.

I mean the skill Molten Armaments. No DKs out there choose to swap a multi-function, party-wide, 30 second buff for a 5 piece on a dungeon dropped heavy set. I just don't see the benefit. I like the rest of your build, that's why this particular choice confuses me.

NirnStorm

@Vildebill happy to help! Let me know if you have any other questions!

@Datolite I like the more open minded approach.
To be fair most magdks don't use molten armaments either, they tend to use entropy. We're talking solo/smallscale build, which has very little interest giving other group members a buff they likely already have if there even are group members, and rattle saves the slot for entropy while giving additional buffs.
For your heavy remark, I actually use 5 light on this build.
And once again, as for why is the effect worth it:

NirnStorm wrote: »

People tend to under appreciate an extra slot. That extra slot could be engulfing flames, so 10% more damage. Or RAT so snare immunity and speed. An extra slot on your bar imo is not worth much less than a 5 piece bonus of a set. Plus, it gives you 100 spell damage in the 5pc of rattle in addition to the skill slot, and the 2-4 bonuses are perfect. So, I think it's 100% worth.

Datolite

NirnStorm wrote: »

@Vildebill happy to help! Let me know if you have any other questions!

@Datolite I like the more open minded approach.
To be fair most magdks don't use molten armaments either, they tend to use entropy. We're talking solo/smallscale build, which has very little interest giving other group members a buff they likely already have if there even are group members, and rattle saves the slot for entropy while giving additional buffs.
For your heavy remark, I actually use 5 light on this build.
And once again, as for why is the effect worth it:

NirnStorm wrote: »

People tend to under appreciate an extra slot. That extra slot could be engulfing flames, so 10% more damage. Or RAT so snare immunity and speed. An extra slot on your bar imo is not worth much less than a 5 piece bonus of a set. Plus, it gives you 100 spell damage in the 5pc of rattle in addition to the skill slot, and the 2-4 bonuses are perfect. So, I think it's 100% worth.

Why in the world Entropy?

MA is imo a must slot for magdk, that buff to heavy attacks is an unsung hero when engaging. I always open with one before chains.

And yes I know you're using light, I am just commenting that a heavy dungeon drop set means you are farming for weapons, which takes way longer than body pieces.

Vildebill

Datolite wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

@Vildebill happy to help! Let me know if you have any other questions!

@Datolite I like the more open minded approach.
To be fair most magdks don't use molten armaments either, they tend to use entropy. We're talking solo/smallscale build, which has very little interest giving other group members a buff they likely already have if there even are group members, and rattle saves the slot for entropy while giving additional buffs.
For your heavy remark, I actually use 5 light on this build.
And once again, as for why is the effect worth it:

NirnStorm wrote: »

People tend to under appreciate an extra slot. That extra slot could be engulfing flames, so 10% more damage. Or RAT so snare immunity and speed. An extra slot on your bar imo is not worth much less than a 5 piece bonus of a set. Plus, it gives you 100 spell damage in the 5pc of rattle in addition to the skill slot, and the 2-4 bonuses are perfect. So, I think it's 100% worth.

Why in the world Entropy?

MA is imo a must slot for magdk, that buff to heavy attacks is an unsung hero when engaging. I always open with one before chains.

And yes I know you're using light, I am just commenting that a heavy dungeon drop set means you are farming for weapons, which takes way longer than body pieces.

Degeneration heals you and is also a dot which can proc skoria, a very popular magdk set.

Unique rattlecage jewelery drops in arcane, and you can use two heavy body pieces for extra resistances, then you won't need to farm weapons.

Don't understand the bashing in rattlecage either, most bonuses nice and you gain a skill slot. 5 piece is also extra spell damage.

Datolite

Vildebill wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

@Vildebill happy to help! Let me know if you have any other questions!

@Datolite I like the more open minded approach.
To be fair most magdks don't use molten armaments either, they tend to use entropy. We're talking solo/smallscale build, which has very little interest giving other group members a buff they likely already have if there even are group members, and rattle saves the slot for entropy while giving additional buffs.
For your heavy remark, I actually use 5 light on this build.
And once again, as for why is the effect worth it:

NirnStorm wrote: »

People tend to under appreciate an extra slot. That extra slot could be engulfing flames, so 10% more damage. Or RAT so snare immunity and speed. An extra slot on your bar imo is not worth much less than a 5 piece bonus of a set. Plus, it gives you 100 spell damage in the 5pc of rattle in addition to the skill slot, and the 2-4 bonuses are perfect. So, I think it's 100% worth.

Why in the world Entropy?

MA is imo a must slot for magdk, that buff to heavy attacks is an unsung hero when engaging. I always open with one before chains.

And yes I know you're using light, I am just commenting that a heavy dungeon drop set means you are farming for weapons, which takes way longer than body pieces.

Degeneration heals you and is also a dot which can proc skoria, a very popular magdk set.

Unique rattlecage jewelery drops in arcane, and you can use two heavy body pieces for extra resistances, then you won't need to farm weapons.

Don't understand the bashing in rattlecage either, most bonuses nice and you gain a skill slot. 5 piece is also extra spell damage.

I guess I understand the choice for Rattlecage. As a magplar main I have been pigeonholed into using spell pots, degeneration, and Rattlecage all at one point or another. That's why I much prefer the class buffs. The set is solid, I will admit that, if not my first choice.

Degeneration however, the heal and damage are negligible at best. The dot is so slow I gave up on using it to proc skoria a long time ago. DK has plenty of good dots without it. Plus the MajSorc buff is only 20 secs and requires a target. Imho, doesn't compare to the class buff.

NirnStorm

Datolite wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

I guess I understand the choice for Rattlecage. As a magplar main I have been pigeonholed into using spell pots, degeneration, and Rattlecage all at one point or another. That's why I much prefer the class buffs. The set is solid, I will admit that, if not my first choice.

Degeneration however, the heal and damage are negligible at best. The dot is so slow I gave up on using it to proc skoria a long time ago. DK has plenty of good dots without it. Plus the MajSorc buff is only 20 secs and requires a target. Imho, doesn't compare to the class buff.

Well yes, but while I personally don't love entropy and don't tend to use it on many toons, I see why it's so common.
The buff is only there when there's a target - true, but you also only need it when there's a target.
20s is more than enough, and it provides additional slight damage and slight heals, which aren't gigantic but sure have their benefit and are worth adding to the rest of your dots and heals at the very least.

Meanwhile, the only buff armaments give ya is additional damage to HA, which you don't use for the sake of dealing damage anyways, only for resources, right?

Datolite

NirnStorm wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

I guess I understand the choice for Rattlecage. As a magplar main I have been pigeonholed into using spell pots, degeneration, and Rattlecage all at one point or another. That's why I much prefer the class buffs. The set is solid, I will admit that, if not my first choice.

Degeneration however, the heal and damage are negligible at best. The dot is so slow I gave up on using it to proc skoria a long time ago. DK has plenty of good dots without it. Plus the MajSorc buff is only 20 secs and requires a target. Imho, doesn't compare to the class buff.

Well yes, but while I personally don't love entropy and don't tend to use it on many toons, I see why it's so common.
The buff is only there when there's a target - true, but you also only need it when there's a target.
20s is more than enough, and it provides additional slight damage and slight heals, which aren't gigantic but sure have their benefit and are worth adding to the rest of your dots and heals at the very least.

Meanwhile, the only buff armaments give ya is additional damage to HA, which you don't use for the sake of dealing damage anyways, only for resources, right?

A heavy fire attack is nothing to shake a stick at, especially buffed by 50%. I see a target, open with a heavy attack, cast chains. Both hit about the same time right into fossilize.

ccmedaddy

I'm running rattlecage on my magDK this patch too. Can't think of any other way to accomodate both RAT and wings without dropping ele drain, which gives me far more dmg and sustain than any 5pc set bonus.

The new molton whip is so good. MagDK feels stronger than ever, if a bit squishier.

BlackMadara

@NirnStorm Nice build. I always find myself trying to theory craft around rattle, but can never settle on something good. I love BSW. It is one of, if not the, best sets for mDK.

Your argument against magicka vs sd doesn't hold up as well in CP. Having 300 CP will buff your magicka pool by 20%, and it is easier to stack more magicka with certain skills. That said, cyrodil has the resource capture buff, which would again make it more effective to stack sd. My point is that either are viable and it's mostly down to preference.

Edit: I also love your idea of running deaths dance back bar. It feels good to block ok it

@JumpmanLane molten ship vs flame lash is a playstyle change. With power lash, you can continue to add pressure while being pressure. Molten whip is about layering dots for a high burst moment and dedicated defensive actions.

JumpmanLane

Rattlecage just underwhelms because I’d still use Entropy for Major Sorcery gaining empower on my light attack weaves. Major Sorcery is always up anyways.

I can stack enough magicka to equal rattlecage’s damage. As for BSW, sure it’s up a lot but I like always on damage, just don’t want RNG from a proc.

I’d rather have the heal. Flame lash is for fighting dangerous folks or outnumbered. Molten is flash for zerging.