What is Templar magic?

Nimrhys

I had always assumed I was a follower of Meridia or something but given the quest lore, I gather that's not the case? It seems like holy magic. If anyone could direct me to the lore behind what the actual magic from a Templar is/where it comes from?

JadonSky

There are many references to the Divines and the Aedra, but nothing to a specific God.

Number_51

I actually tend to think of it as elemental magic, the same as frost, fire, earth, water, air, storm, etc. My reasoning is that it is, and I think we may be able to agree, light magic. The Ayleids believed "in accordance with High Elf religion, ... [that] Nirn was composed of four basic elements: earth, water, air, and light (as opposed to the four elements of modern natural philosophy: earth, water, air, and fire)", and that fire is just a lesser form of light. [1] [2]

To that end, could we then also consider frost a lesser form of water magic, and weather/storm(shock) a lesser form of air magic? What is the lesser form of earth magic (DK, *Aranias)?

* Greenshade main zone quest spoilers on Aranias link.
[1] Glories and Laments
[2] Magic from the Sky

LennoxPoodle

Isn't there some book (skill book for templar) about the 3 skill lines being manifestations of Stendarrs favor?

Yep it's Aura of the Righteous by Ptolus the Bright.

So I guess Templars invoke Stendarr in some way.

Robo_Hobo

It's specifically Stendarr-related divine magic, at least that's what the Resolutes of Stendarr say, and they're the ones who go around teaching people the magic (regardless of their affiliation with Stendarr, they don't even have to worship any gods, they just like teaching people it - presumably as long as they aren't Daedra, Undead/Vampires, or Werewolves. Makes Templar Werewolves/Vampires ironic!)

Of course it's possible the Resolutes of Stendarr simply found some old Ayleid light magic and are branding it as Stendarr magic as propaganda.

Here's some skill books that increase the Templar Class skill lines, and go a bit more into the lore of Templars:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aura_of_the_Righteous
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Four_Abominations
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Friend_of_All_Mortals
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rituals_of_the_Harmonious_Masters
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stendarr's_Divine_Spear

DeadlyRecluse

I don't think there's a clear lore reason.

There's a handful of Aedra/daedra that make sense as your patron, if you want a headcanon/RP background.

...I liked the Meridia-worship idea on my templar, but IMO it's cheapened due to Dawnbreaker being an ult available to all.

Nimrhys

Number_51 wrote: »

I actually tend to think of it as elemental magic, the same as frost, fire, earth, water, air, storm, etc. My reasoning is that it is, and I think we may be able to agree, light magic. The Ayleids believed "in accordance with High Elf religion, ... [that] Nirn was composed of four basic elements: earth, water, air, and light (as opposed to the four elements of modern natural philosophy: earth, water, air, and fire)", and that fire is just a lesser form of light. [1] [2]

To that end, could we then also consider frost a lesser form of water magic, and weather/storm(shock) a lesser form of air magic? What is the lesser form of earth magic (DK, *Aranias)?

* Greenshade main zone quest spoilers on Aranias link.
[1] Glories and Laments
[2] Magic from the Sky

Very interesting. It does say in the brief description “Light and sun magic” so maybe it isn’t holy and is elemental. I think that makes most sense.

Nimrhys

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

It's specifically Stendarr-related divine magic, at least that's what the Resolutes of Stendarr say, and they're the ones who go around teaching people the magic (regardless of their affiliation with Stendarr, they don't even have to worship any gods, they just like teaching people it - presumably as long as they aren't Daedra, Undead/Vampires, or Werewolves. Makes Templar Werewolves/Vampires ironic!)

Of course it's possible the Resolutes of Stendarr simply found some old Ayleid light magic and are branding it as Stendarr magic as propaganda.

Here's some skill books that increase the Templar Class skill lines, and go a bit more into the lore of Templars:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aura_of_the_Righteous
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Four_Abominations
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Friend_of_All_Mortals
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rituals_of_the_Harmonious_Masters
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stendarr's_Divine_Spear

Thanks so much!

KillsAllElves

Nimrhys wrote: »

I had always assumed I was a follower of Meridia or something but given the quest lore, I gather that's not the case? It seems like holy magic. If anyone could direct me to the lore behind what the actual magic from a Templar is/where it comes from?

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight"

"conjure sloar energy to blast enemies around you"

"conjure a ball of solar energy to heave at an enemy "

"sunfire~ radiant heat"

"aedric spear"

"call down a fragment of the sun"

"burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire"

All magic comes from magnus, templar being a class that focuses on solar/holy fire damage from the aedra i think templar is a patron of magnus. I could be wrong.

Meridia has nothing to do with the templar magic, even though she was apart of the magna-ge.

LennoxPoodle

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Nimrhys wrote: »

I had always assumed I was a follower of Meridia or something but given the quest lore, I gather that's not the case? It seems like holy magic. If anyone could direct me to the lore behind what the actual magic from a Templar is/where it comes from?

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight"

"conjure sloar energy to blast enemies around you"

"conjure a ball of solar energy to heave at an enemy "

"sunfire~ radiant heat"

"aedric spear"

"call down a fragment of the sun"

"burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire"

All magic comes from magnus, templar being a class that focuses on solar/holy fire damage from the aedra i think templar is a patron of magnus. I could be wrong.

Meridia has nothing to do with the templar magic, even though she was apart of the magna-ge.

I generally play under the assumption that all of ESOs classes work with powers from more exotic sources different than the classical magic of the Magna-Ge. This classical magic directly uses Magicka (the stuff of Aetherius) bleeding through the holes in oblivion left by the Magna-Ge (stars and sun), a limited portion of the very power that created the Mundus, to reshape their surroundings in the desired way. According to my theory the classes merely use it as a tool to tap into and channel their respective other sources, probably a much more Magicka efficient approach (Are classes more powerful than conventional magic users? That might explain the relatively high power of the player).
Templars access stendarrs light according to sources given by me and @Robo_Hobo . That probably still is Magicka (he's an Aedra after all) but filtered through a specific entity, and thus seemingly given its spinn. Maybe it's projecting Magicka in the original aedric way. Light seems to be a thing of Aetherius after all.
The Sorcerer/ess seems to get his/her power from a very different source. The description of Dark Magic abilities refer to pulling stuff from Oblivion, as is the case for Daedric Summoning (obviously). So I guess Sorcs use Magicka to conjure Creatia (the Stuff of Oblivion), which doesn't flow freely into Mundus. That's actually very close to classic conjuration, but extends its field of application.
The lore on Night Blades is actually pretty clear, it's straight from Shadowkey. Essentially it relies on alternate realities and the shadow those cast into each other. Pretty simple actually.
From the original classes this leaves us with the Dragon Knight. According to their description and the books on them, they use Akaviri and dragon magic. We all know what Dragon magic is, and it doesn't rely on Magicka at all. This ofc leaves us with an explanatory problem, given that DK's definitely use it. But what if the Akaviri (probably Tsaesci maybe Ka'Po'Tun) developed spells which in turn cast Thu'um, instead of taking the bothersome road to learning it properly. That would indeed be a very smart workaround and shortcut. This might even explain the mysterious Akaviri magic, and its noted ability to control the weather (We know for certain, that Thu'um can do it). Their obsession with and high exposure to dragons even gives them the means to develop something like that.
Morrowinds Wardens seem to be a new group using the same (or similar) powers as green speakers, weavers and the Wyrd. Both Bosmer and Wyrd sisters have very strong connection to the Ehlnofey, from which they seemingly draw their unique abilities. The Ehlnofey being the basis of Mundus might mean that a Warden accesses Mundus own power. Light and thus energy coming from aetherius and only mundus having an actual form also implies that ice - form without energy or change - could be the perfect symbol for Mindus in contrast to the other realms.
Necros are kind of obvious. Like enchanting they use drained soul/life energy.

KillsAllElves

LennoxPoodle wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Nimrhys wrote: »

I had always assumed I was a follower of Meridia or something but given the quest lore, I gather that's not the case? It seems like holy magic. If anyone could direct me to the lore behind what the actual magic from a Templar is/where it comes from?

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight"

"conjure sloar energy to blast enemies around you"

"conjure a ball of solar energy to heave at an enemy "

"sunfire~ radiant heat"

"aedric spear"

"call down a fragment of the sun"

"burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire"

All magic comes from magnus, templar being a class that focuses on solar/holy fire damage from the aedra i think templar is a patron of magnus. I could be wrong.

Meridia has nothing to do with the templar magic, even though she was apart of the magna-ge.

I generally play under the assumption that all of ESOs classes work with powers from more exotic sources different than the classical magic of the Magna-Ge. This classical magic directly uses Magicka (the stuff of Aetherius) bleeding through the holes in oblivion left by the Magna-Ge (stars and sun), a limited portion of the very power that created the Mundus, to reshape their surroundings in the desired way. According to my theory the classes merely use it as a tool to tap into and channel their respective other sources, probably a much more Magicka efficient approach (Are classes more powerful than conventional magic users? That might explain the relatively high power of the player).
Templars access stendarrs light according to sources given by me and @Robo_Hobo . That probably still is Magicka (he's an Aedra after all) but filtered through a specific entity, and thus seemingly given its spinn. Maybe it's projecting Magicka in the original aedric way. Light seems to be a thing of Aetherius after all.
The Sorcerer/ess seems to get his/her power from a very different source. The description of Dark Magic abilities refer to pulling stuff from Oblivion, as is the case for Daedric Summoning (obviously). So I guess Sorcs use Magicka to conjure Creatia (the Stuff of Oblivion), which doesn't flow freely into Mundus. That's actually very close to classic conjuration, but extends its field of application.
The lore on Night Blades is actually pretty clear, it's straight from Shadowkey. Essentially it relies on alternate realities and the shadow those cast into each other. Pretty simple actually.
From the original classes this leaves us with the Dragon Knight. According to their description and the books on them, they use Akaviri and dragon magic. We all know what Dragon magic is, and it doesn't rely on Magicka at all. This ofc leaves us with an explanatory problem, given that DK's definitely use it. But what if the Akaviri (probably Tsaesci maybe Ka'Po'Tun) developed spells which in turn cast Thu'um, instead of taking the bothersome road to learning it properly. That would indeed be a very smart workaround and shortcut. This might even explain the mysterious Akaviri magic, and its noted ability to control the weather (We know for certain, that Thu'um can do it). Their obsession with and high exposure to dragons even gives them the means to develop something like that.
Morrowinds Wardens seem to be a new group using the same (or similar) powers as green speakers, weavers and the Wyrd. Both Bosmer and Wyrd sisters have very strong connection to the Ehlnofey, from which they seemingly draw their unique abilities. The Ehlnofey being the basis of Mundus might mean that a Warden accesses Mundus own power. Light and thus energy coming from aetherius and only mundus having an actual form also implies that ice - form without energy or change - could be the perfect symbol for Mindus in contrast to the other realms.
Necros are kind of obvious. Like enchanting they use drained soul/life energy.

No where have i read any source that came from bethesda stating magic comes from other sources other than magnus. All magic comes from magnus, the daedra utilize a dark twisted magic.

Sorcers, nightblades and necromancers use magic under influence of deadra.

Wardens and dragonknights use elemental type magic not under daedric influence but is not holy neither.

LennoxPoodle

KillsAllElves wrote: »

LennoxPoodle wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Nimrhys wrote: »

I had always assumed I was a follower of Meridia or something but given the quest lore, I gather that's not the case? It seems like holy magic. If anyone could direct me to the lore behind what the actual magic from a Templar is/where it comes from?

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight"

"conjure sloar energy to blast enemies around you"

"conjure a ball of solar energy to heave at an enemy "

"sunfire~ radiant heat"

"aedric spear"

"call down a fragment of the sun"

"burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire"

All magic comes from magnus, templar being a class that focuses on solar/holy fire damage from the aedra i think templar is a patron of magnus. I could be wrong.

Meridia has nothing to do with the templar magic, even though she was apart of the magna-ge.

I generally play under the assumption that all of ESOs classes work with powers from more exotic sources different than the classical magic of the Magna-Ge. This classical magic directly uses Magicka (the stuff of Aetherius) bleeding through the holes in oblivion left by the Magna-Ge (stars and sun), a limited portion of the very power that created the Mundus, to reshape their surroundings in the desired way. According to my theory the classes merely use it as a tool to tap into and channel their respective other sources, probably a much more Magicka efficient approach (Are classes more powerful than conventional magic users? That might explain the relatively high power of the player).
Templars access stendarrs light according to sources given by me and @Robo_Hobo . That probably still is Magicka (he's an Aedra after all) but filtered through a specific entity, and thus seemingly given its spinn. Maybe it's projecting Magicka in the original aedric way. Light seems to be a thing of Aetherius after all.
The Sorcerer/ess seems to get his/her power from a very different source. The description of Dark Magic abilities refer to pulling stuff from Oblivion, as is the case for Daedric Summoning (obviously). So I guess Sorcs use Magicka to conjure Creatia (the Stuff of Oblivion), which doesn't flow freely into Mundus. That's actually very close to classic conjuration, but extends its field of application.
The lore on Night Blades is actually pretty clear, it's straight from Shadowkey. Essentially it relies on alternate realities and the shadow those cast into each other. Pretty simple actually.
From the original classes this leaves us with the Dragon Knight. According to their description and the books on them, they use Akaviri and dragon magic. We all know what Dragon magic is, and it doesn't rely on Magicka at all. This ofc leaves us with an explanatory problem, given that DK's definitely use it. But what if the Akaviri (probably Tsaesci maybe Ka'Po'Tun) developed spells which in turn cast Thu'um, instead of taking the bothersome road to learning it properly. That would indeed be a very smart workaround and shortcut. This might even explain the mysterious Akaviri magic, and its noted ability to control the weather (We know for certain, that Thu'um can do it). Their obsession with and high exposure to dragons even gives them the means to develop something like that.
Morrowinds Wardens seem to be a new group using the same (or similar) powers as green speakers, weavers and the Wyrd. Both Bosmer and Wyrd sisters have very strong connection to the Ehlnofey, from which they seemingly draw their unique abilities. The Ehlnofey being the basis of Mundus might mean that a Warden accesses Mundus own power. Light and thus energy coming from aetherius and only mundus having an actual form also implies that ice - form without energy or change - could be the perfect symbol for Mindus in contrast to the other realms.
Necros are kind of obvious. Like enchanting they use drained soul/life energy.

No where have i read any source that came from bethesda stating magic comes from other sources other than magnus. All magic comes from magnus, the daedra utilize a dark twisted magic.

Sorcers, nightblades and necromancers use magic under influence of deadra.

Wardens and dragonknights use elemental type magic not under daedric influence but is not holy neither.

That's kind of what I was saying. Using magic (normal aedric) to access these other things. What else is conjuring up a fragment of oblivion to throw it at the enemy (dark shard)?

robertbmilesb14_ESO

KillsAllElves wrote: »

LennoxPoodle wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Nimrhys wrote: »

I had always assumed I was a follower of Meridia or something but given the quest lore, I gather that's not the case? It seems like holy magic. If anyone could direct me to the lore behind what the actual magic from a Templar is/where it comes from?

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight"

"conjure sloar energy to blast enemies around you"

"conjure a ball of solar energy to heave at an enemy "

"sunfire~ radiant heat"

"aedric spear"

"call down a fragment of the sun"

"burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire"

All magic comes from magnus, templar being a class that focuses on solar/holy fire damage from the aedra i think templar is a patron of magnus. I could be wrong.

Meridia has nothing to do with the templar magic, even though she was apart of the magna-ge.

I generally play under the assumption that all of ESOs classes work with powers from more exotic sources different than the classical magic of the Magna-Ge. This classical magic directly uses Magicka (the stuff of Aetherius) bleeding through the holes in oblivion left by the Magna-Ge (stars and sun), a limited portion of the very power that created the Mundus, to reshape their surroundings in the desired way. According to my theory the classes merely use it as a tool to tap into and channel their respective other sources, probably a much more Magicka efficient approach (Are classes more powerful than conventional magic users? That might explain the relatively high power of the player).
Templars access stendarrs light according to sources given by me and @Robo_Hobo . That probably still is Magicka (he's an Aedra after all) but filtered through a specific entity, and thus seemingly given its spinn. Maybe it's projecting Magicka in the original aedric way. Light seems to be a thing of Aetherius after all.
The Sorcerer/ess seems to get his/her power from a very different source. The description of Dark Magic abilities refer to pulling stuff from Oblivion, as is the case for Daedric Summoning (obviously). So I guess Sorcs use Magicka to conjure Creatia (the Stuff of Oblivion), which doesn't flow freely into Mundus. That's actually very close to classic conjuration, but extends its field of application.
The lore on Night Blades is actually pretty clear, it's straight from Shadowkey. Essentially it relies on alternate realities and the shadow those cast into each other. Pretty simple actually.
From the original classes this leaves us with the Dragon Knight. According to their description and the books on them, they use Akaviri and dragon magic. We all know what Dragon magic is, and it doesn't rely on Magicka at all. This ofc leaves us with an explanatory problem, given that DK's definitely use it. But what if the Akaviri (probably Tsaesci maybe Ka'Po'Tun) developed spells which in turn cast Thu'um, instead of taking the bothersome road to learning it properly. That would indeed be a very smart workaround and shortcut. This might even explain the mysterious Akaviri magic, and its noted ability to control the weather (We know for certain, that Thu'um can do it). Their obsession with and high exposure to dragons even gives them the means to develop something like that.
Morrowinds Wardens seem to be a new group using the same (or similar) powers as green speakers, weavers and the Wyrd. Both Bosmer and Wyrd sisters have very strong connection to the Ehlnofey, from which they seemingly draw their unique abilities. The Ehlnofey being the basis of Mundus might mean that a Warden accesses Mundus own power. Light and thus energy coming from aetherius and only mundus having an actual form also implies that ice - form without energy or change - could be the perfect symbol for Mindus in contrast to the other realms.
Necros are kind of obvious. Like enchanting they use drained soul/life energy.

No where have i read any source that came from bethesda stating magic comes from other sources other than magnus. All magic comes from magnus, the daedra utilize a dark twisted magic.

Sorcers, nightblades and necromancers use magic under influence of deadra.

Wardens and dragonknights use elemental type magic not under daedric influence but is not holy neither.

Except there is no influence...

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magic

Nimrhys

I'm happy with it being from Stendarr, whether you know that or not. I do wish we had some way to make a background for our characters in game prior to being the Vestige. Maybe we forgot all that but you know...

Danikat

I've always just thought of it as a form of what will later be known as destruction and restoration magic. Maybe with some conjuration involved in the spear skills. So not fundamentally different to any other form of magic, except in how the caster shapes and uses it.

My templar isn't particularly religious (although she reveres several deities, mainly Khenarthi and Azurah) and doesn't consider her powers to come from any particular god, or daedra, it's just the magic she learned to use as a kitten and adapted over time to suit her needs.

tsaescishoeshiner

To Ancilvar, Kvatch Fighters Guild Armswoman and First Recruiter,

It with excitation that I write to tell you that years of careful study and stern attention to the techniques used by the order of spellswords known as Templars has at last revealed the true source of their previously-assumed stendarric magicks.

The Mage's Guild* of outer Stros M'kai has nonunanimously confirmed the connection between the Templars' sun magick and Kynareth. A blind study on the impact force of their ranged destruction and restoration spells on a volunteer researcher using several variables and ample shore-assisted meditation and analysis conjured the conclusion that Templar magick borrows its power from the Sea and her Aedric matron.

Subjects who had consumed materials from Kynareth's domain consistently led the target to report stronger impacts from Templar spells. Both Longfin Pasty with Melon Sauce and Solitude Salmon-Millet Soup were tested beside the control, with Templars having eaten fish from the Sea producing a higher rate of concussions and minor fractures on impact, as well as improved pain scores.

Further studies will follow to ascertain whether Templar spellpower varies with the amount of fish consumed, time spent contemplating at the beach, and devotion to Kynareth.

We hope you find the data in the following pages compelling. The research is truly promising. However, more volunteer targets are required, and your contribution would be appreciated by the entire guild.

Blessings upon you,

Hogwosh gra-Grubgob
Archmage and First Restoration Researcher,
Mage's Guild of Outer Stros M'kai

*No affiliation to the "Mages Guild" of Anvil or its sibling chapters across Tamriel

. . .

Page 50, Dissenting Opinion:

It dun't matter which those elf mages had for breakfast. Whatever they were conjuring weren't no breath of auntie Kyne. I myself never felt no breath of Kyne hit me like a mammoth during rutting season. The itchy blindfold didn't make any difference, either. This study should be cross-examined and terminated before they go on with ... [ink stains, text illegible] ... those damned haughty yellow elfs and that fumbling orc.

Signed,

[illegible]
First Research Target (Former),
Mage's Guild of Outer Stros M'kai

Nimrhys

I would love sea magic but I don't think it would come out as sun magic lol. Agree with the Nord.

Sand_Traven

I'm curious about this too, as there's nothing much within the Templar skillset that's tailored in such a way as to be useful against daedra/undead. Werewolves are weak to poison, vampires are weak to fire. Templars don't really get any advantage from their abilities when using either of these things and have IIRC only one ability that does actual fire damage. Dragonknights, on the other hand, seem absolutely tailored to fighting vampires and werewolves because of their bonuses to damage when using fire and poison. I posted about this on the Templar feedback thread. Some sort of clarification on what we're dealing with would be useful, because right now if you want to be a holy warrior, don't be a Templar, be a dragonknight.

Nimrhys

Well the problem is there isn’t really “holy” and “unholy” there is just Daedra and Aedra which is wholly a matter of perspective. If you’ve done all the journey with Darien, you know what I mean.

So undead and vampires Arkay no likey. Werewolves are against Yffre or something? Yet great for... Hircine? Bleh names. Anyway, my point is that it’s probably daedric magic and thus can be used for good or ill because it’s simply perspective.

LennoxPoodle

Nimrhys wrote: »

Well the problem is there isn’t really “holy” and “unholy” there is just Daedra and Aedra which is wholly a matter of perspective. If you’ve done all the journey with Darien, you know what I mean.

So undead and vampires Arkay no likey. Werewolves are against Yffre or something? Yet great for... Hircine? Bleh names. Anyway, my point is that it’s probably daedric magic and thus can be used for good or ill because it’s simply perspective.

One of the skill lines is called aedric spear. Also everything referencing the sun hints towards an aedric origin. That thing is huge gate/tunnel into aetherius in TES after all.