Redguard warden without snare immunity

Luckylancer

Title + I use bird of prey to get %30 m speed. I cant remember a scenario that I died because I was moving at snail speed. Root spam can get annoying but thats rare.

What is your opimion/experiences about this aproach to slows? Is there anyone using this kind of setup? If not you can try it. Bow-bow and no-2h builds can utilise this.

Note: boht redguard and warden have slow reducing skills. Warden have major expedition too.

Wing

+ rangers gait set.

=pretty much not effected by snares.

Waffennacht

I currently have a set up similar but only because I haven't leveled up psijic skill line for RAT on my Warden.

I'd probably replace bird o prey for RAT and get both.... maybe, I'll have to test tbh.

But about snare reduction, I feel 30% increased movement is just getting to standard, I feel as I'm snared without major expedition, so in that regard; no it's not enough

Minno

speed = snares. The movement and application of one means the removal of the other.
Normal base speed is 3m/s

Adding buffs:
RAT, steed, sprint, 1pc medium sprint passive = 30%+10%+3% = 43%

One vamps bane is 40%, with the next snare that will drop this speed is 60%. Highest overrides lowest, so after vamps bane, you only have 3% speed left lol.

BUT if you reduced that snare as well:
- light armor 5pc is 20% (4% each pc)
- redguard 15%
- warden 15%

Each of these is handled individually.
40% * 0.85 = 34%
34% * 0.85 = 28.9%
28.9% * 0.80 = 23.12%
So you reduced the snare down by a difference of roughly 42%. But now your speed is 43%-23.12% = 19.88%.

Conclusion, these snare reductions arent useless; people just dont understand them and PVE folks have so much power creep they ignore 80% of mechanics in this game anyway to noticed this lol.

BlackMadara

Minno wrote: »

speed = snares. The movement and application of one means the removal of the other.
Normal base speed is 3m/s

Adding buffs:
RAT, steed, sprint, 1pc medium sprint passive = 30%+10%+3% = 43%

One vamps bane is 40%, with the next snare that will drop this speed is 60%. Highest overrides lowest, so after vamps bane, you only have 3% speed left lol.

BUT if you reduced that snare as well:
- light armor 5pc is 20% (4% each pc)
- redguard 15%
- warden 15%

Each of these is handled individually.
40% * 0.85 = 34%
34% * 0.85 = 28.9%
28.9% * 0.80 = 23.12%
So you reduced the snare down by a difference of roughly 42%. But now your speed is 43%-23.12% = 19.88%.

Conclusion, these snare reductions arent useless; people just dont understand them and PVE folks have so much power creep they ignore 80% of mechanics in this game anyway to noticed this lol.

I'm pretty sure that speed buffs and snares are applied multiplicatively to overall movement speed. So a 30% speed buff and a 30% snare would result in a movement speed of 2.73, not 3 m/s.

Have you tested this yourself?

Minno

BlackMadara wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

speed = snares. The movement and application of one means the removal of the other.
Normal base speed is 3m/s

Adding buffs:
RAT, steed, sprint, 1pc medium sprint passive = 30%+10%+3% = 43%

One vamps bane is 40%, with the next snare that will drop this speed is 60%. Highest overrides lowest, so after vamps bane, you only have 3% speed left lol.

BUT if you reduced that snare as well:
- light armor 5pc is 20% (4% each pc)
- redguard 15%
- warden 15%

Each of these is handled individually.
40% * 0.85 = 34%
34% * 0.85 = 28.9%
28.9% * 0.80 = 23.12%
So you reduced the snare down by a difference of roughly 42%. But now your speed is 43%-23.12% = 19.88%.

Conclusion, these snare reductions arent useless; people just dont understand them and PVE folks have so much power creep they ignore 80% of mechanics in this game anyway to noticed this lol.

I'm pretty sure that speed buffs and snares are applied multiplicatively to overall movement speed. So a 30% speed buff and a 30% snare would result in a movement speed of 2.73, not 3 m/s.

Have you tested this yourself?

Don't need to when the creator of the build editor did the work for us.
Equation for sprint on the site:
SprintSpeed =
(BaseWalkSpeed)*(1 + 0.40 + Set.SprintSpeed + Buff.MovementSpeed + Item.MovementSpeed + Set.MovementSpeed + Buff.SprintSpeed + Skill.MovementSpeed + Skill.SprintSpeed + Mundus.MovementSpeed)*(1 + CP.MovementSpeed)

Equation tested in a Reddit post:
Sprint = Base*(100% + 40% + Set + Buff + Skill + Mundus*Divines)*(1 + CP)
MountRun = Base*(100% + 45% + MountSpeedBonus + Skill + CP)*(1 + Set + Buff)

Someone tested while back and concluded the following:
"
Your movement speed is 156% of base walking speed (100% + 40% sprint + 10% Steed + 6% Swift)
Stronger snares override weaker ones, so only the 60% Heroic snare affects you
Snare resistance is additive among its sources, so you have 19%.
Snare resistance applies multiplicatively to snares, so you are slowed by 0.6*0.81 = 48.6%


I'm not sure how/if the game rounds that decimal, so I'll just treat it as 49% to simulate the worst-case scenario.

Your current speed is therefore 107% of base. "

Minno

so to answer your question, speed sources are additive (with exception of windrunnner CP passive which is multiplied against all your speed sources). And snare reduction is multiplied against snare. The snare subtracts from your overall speed, and then your speed value is multiplied against your base modifer. Typical is 3m/s.

BlackMadara

Minno wrote: »

so to answer your question, speed sources are additive (with exception of windrunnner CP passive which is multiplied against all your speed sources). And snare reduction is multiplied against snare. The snare subtracts from your overall speed, and then your speed value is multiplied against your base modifer. Typical is 3m/s.

What I know is that:
Base walk speed is 3 m/s.
Movement speed buffs are additive with each other. Exception is windrunning passive. That is multiplicative to total speed.
Sprint is 40%, major expedition is 30%, steed is 10%, swift gold is 6%
Snare reduction is additive with each other and multiplicative against snares.
Only the strongest snare is applied in all instances.

The issue is how are snares applied. Are they additive to other buffs as well, or are they multiplicative to overall speed?

The reason I ask this is I remember seeing a thread a couple of years ago complaining about the warden snare reduction passive. It stated that snares are applied multiplicatively to speed, not additively to speed modifiers.

That would make your final speed 2.39 m/s (3*1.56*(1-.6*(1-.19))) not 3.21 m/s (3*(1.56-(.6*(1-.19))).

I assumed the previous thread tested out their reasoning, but now I'm seeing a different answer.

Minno

BlackMadara wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

so to answer your question, speed sources are additive (with exception of windrunnner CP passive which is multiplied against all your speed sources). And snare reduction is multiplied against snare. The snare subtracts from your overall speed, and then your speed value is multiplied against your base modifer. Typical is 3m/s.

What I know is that:
Base walk speed is 3 m/s.
Movement speed buffs are additive with each other. Exception is windrunning passive. That is multiplicative to total speed.
Sprint is 40%, major expedition is 30%, steed is 10%, swift gold is 6%
Snare reduction is additive with each other and multiplicative against snares.
Only the strongest snare is applied in all instances.

The issue is how are snares applied. Are they additive to other buffs as well, or are they multiplicative to overall speed?

The reason I ask this is I remember seeing a thread a couple of years ago complaining about the warden snare reduction passive. It stated that snares are applied multiplicatively to speed, not additively to speed modifiers.

That would make your final speed 2.39 m/s (3*1.56*(1-.6*(1-.19))) not 3.21 m/s (3*(1.56-(.6*(1-.19))).

I assumed the previous thread tested out their reasoning, but now I'm seeing a different answer.

The final speed is multiplied against the base movement. Speed sources stack additive, highest snare is used and snare reduction multiplied from the highest snare. The resulting snare is subtracted from your speed, and then you multiply the end percentage against your base speed number.

If I sprint with major source and steed with wind runner and 6% medium against a 60% snare with 5pc light, redguard, warden:
(3 m/s) * [(1 + 0.40 + 0.30 + 0.06 + .10) * (1 + 0.02)] - [ * (1+(0.60 * 0.50)] = Sprint Speed
(3 m/s) * [1.8972] - [1.3] = 0.5972
(3 m/s) * 0.5972 = 1.7916
Sprint Speed = 1.79 m/s

A reduction of about 40% instead of 60%.

If I dont have any of the snare reduction:
(3 m/s) * [(1 + 0.40 + 0.30 + 0.06 + .10) * (1 + 0.02)] - [ * (1+(0.60 ] = Sprint Speed
(3 m/s) * [1.8972] - [1.6] = 0.2972
(3 m/s) * 0.2972 = 0.8916
Sprint Speed = 0.89 m/s

Syhae

If youre open world or in BGs, should always have a form of snare removal. Luckily there are multiple sources right now.
Forward Momentum if you're using a 2H
Race Against Time if you are not using 2H and are in Heavy Armor - Constitution Passive and also dropping a magicka buff such as Green Lotus or Crystalized Shield will allow this to be a possibility.
Shuffle if you are in medium and are either not running 2H or would prefer Major Evasion on top of having a snare removal.

Play around with the possibilities, find one you like.

Luckylancer

So at the end this is the scenario I am in:

%60 snare, %20 is resisted and snare is droped to %40. I use bird of prey and it is reduced to %10 slow. When I sprint, I run with 1.30 speed. Thats good enough for me. I use 0 slots for this too, major berserk ia so good to drop and cheap major expedition is nice.

Rally lose value with netch, they give same buff. I dont have psijic skill line and RAT is pay to win. I use heavy, cant use shuffle. Againts all this odds, I am happy I can run with decent speed in pvp.