Some questions on builds, regarding what I feel may have been a bad idea/move

CMDR_Un1k0rn

I think we can all understand why so many people give the "default" advice of "look at Alcast" when responding to people looking for build advice. A simple Google search alone of "ESO Builds" gives his site as the first result, without fail.

But after about five months of playing, I'm starting to question if that's the right thing to be doing, as someone who struggles to builds together himself.

Now, to clarify, I'm not bashing on Alcast. I've no doubt his published builds are great. I've no doubt his unpublished builds are even greater, if he has any. Actually it's precisely because they're good that I'm starting to wonder if they're really the best thing for someone who still very much considers himself a novice at best. But, with this said, Alcast is an exceptionally talented player, which gives me reason to doubt whether I should be looking that high right now, for build advice.

What I mean to ask is, would you say that the builds on his site have a higher skill requirement? I know ESO isn't the easiest game to play, and I'm not asking how I can be an elite player. That would be absurd. I'm simply looking to be able to achieve the following:

My goal is simply to be able to clear vet content. I don't really care about the skins, or the titles, or anything like that. Right now I just want to focus on being able to clear content. I'm currently struggling with harder content, such as DLC Vet dungeons.

I guess what I am asking is, should I look elsewhere for build hints/tips/ideas because I might find builds that are easier to play? Builds that have a lower skill requirement? I'm a stamblade BTW for my main, but I've finally started branching out to tanks and healers as well.

Can anyone make any suggestions on other sources?

As ever, I appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

ShadowDisciple

The sooner you start practicing a more advanced build, sooner you get better. No sense spending time practicing something thats obsolete

Also. The way builds are made is simple actually.

1. U need 1 single target spamable cuz having 2 or more makes no sense since u need to be using the hardest hitting one. Exception is execute st ability which becomes main spammable after a treshold. Ex. Surprise attack until target 25% then use killers blade.

2. Dots. U need to create a rotation that allows ultimate uptime on as many dots as u can fit in a time frame of your longest lasting dot. Ex. New stamblade shade into calttops into hail into incjection into rending into trap beast. U just apply these dots just as they are about to run out so u dont overcast them and fill with spamable in the downtime when they still have time left.

3. Self buffs. Use them at the start of the fight theb reapply as needed after setting dots and instead of your spamable.

4. WEAVE

5. exceptions are skills that have a special mechanic. Like relentless focus. U use these when conditions are met.


Gg

CMDR_Un1k0rn

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

The sooner you start practicing a more advanced build, sooner you get better. No sense spending time practicing something thats obsolete

Also. The way builds are made is simple actually.

1. U need 1 single target spamable cuz having 2 or more makes no sense since u need to be using the hardest hitting one. Exception is execute st ability which becomes main spammable after a treshold. Ex. Surprise attack until target 25% then use killers blade.

2. Dots. U need to create a rotation that allows ultimate uptime on as many dots as u can fit in a time frame of your longest lasting dot. Ex. New stamblade shade into calttops into hail into incjection into rending into trap beast. U just apply these dots just as they are about to run out so u dont overcast them and fill with spamable in the downtime when they still have time left.

3. Self buffs. Use them at the start of the fight theb reapply as needed after setting dots and instead of your spamable.

4. WEAVE

5. exceptions are skills that have a special mechanic. Like relentless focus. U use these when conditions are met.


Gg

That's fair enough. I'm a pretty emotionally unstable individual and fighting against defeatism is hard for me.

It does not take much failure for me to think, I'll never get better, despite those thoughts being what prevents me from trying more.

I'll work on it.

Royaji

It is exactly the opposite. If you want to go advanced, you will have to stop looking at Alcast.

These days there is a beginner-friendly setup in every build he posts. He shows simple, static rotations and hides the more advanced ones under spoilers or lists them as second option after giving you a warning that they are advanced. Pressing 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > *bar swap button* > repeat with mouse clicks in the middle and watching one or god forbid two buffs is really not that far from light attack spam or hardcasted frags.

ShadowDisciple

Royaji wrote: »

It is exactly the opposite. If you want to go advanced, you will have to stop looking at Alcast.

These days there is a beginner-friendly setup in every build he posts. He shows simple, static rotations and hides the more advanced ones under spoilers or lists them as second option after giving you a warning that they are advanced. Pressing 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > *bar swap button* > repeat with mouse clicks in the middle and watching one or god forbid two buffs is really not that far from light attack spam or hardcasted frags.

Lol. First you say they arent advanced then u say Alcast provides advanced u just have to scroll down abit.

Which is it?

Yes alcast provides both... Your comment provided NOTHING..

Royaji

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It is exactly the opposite. If you want to go advanced, you will have to stop looking at Alcast.

These days there is a beginner-friendly setup in every build he posts. He shows simple, static rotations and hides the more advanced ones under spoilers or lists them as second option after giving you a warning that they are advanced. Pressing 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > *bar swap button* > repeat with mouse clicks in the middle and watching one or god forbid two buffs is really not that far from light attack spam or hardcasted frags.

Lol. First you say they arent advanced then u say Alcast provides advanced u just have to scroll down abit.

Which is it?

It's exactly as I said. Simple offered as first option and more advanced is there for those who want to look deeper. And I understand, english is hard but "more advanced" does not necessary equal "advanced". You won't find highest end dynamic rotation like Liko runs on Alcast's website.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

That's fair enough guys. I'm not looking to start a fight. If I made a misunderstanding, I made a misunderstanding.

Vajrak

@CMDR_Un1k0rn

I've said this often --- Alcast is a great mechanical player, and his knowledge of mechanics as well as personal performance are great. That said, his builds are lackluster and not something to pursue unless you personally are going for the absolute top-tier 1% group...and since most of us aren't as this isn't both our hobby and our job, everything he presents should be taken with a shaker (not a grain) of salt.

If you are building for DPS, there are a few things you want to consider ---
Raw Stats --- Your Max Stat, Damage Rating (Spell/Weapon Damage), Critical Rating, and Critical Damage Bonuses (in that order).

It's a balancing act for sure, but for main stat, you want over 35k, Damage Rating around 3-4k, Critical Rating 42-60%, and Crit Damage Bonuses 25-35%+ --- Your Critical Damage Bonus becomes more important as you meet/surpass 60% crit rating, and you can afford to lose a bit of damage rating to increase the critical hit rating --- the damage differential for the crit will make up for and exceed the lower non-crit output. It is entirely possible to push 5-6-7k Spell/Weapon Damage builds, but your crit rate will be on the lower end (42-50%).

In terms of your rotation --- don't worry about having a static or a dynamic rotation so much, or perfect weaving; pick a DPS benchmark that you need to meet in live fights (not on training dummy's) and keep adjusting your bar and rotation until you hit that benchmark. 25k overall DPS is a good place to aim for as your starting point, as that allows pretty much all content to be completed, and with more practice, gear refinement (gold), adjusting rings as you are comfortable (main stat boosts to 3x infused, or 2x infused 1x bloodthirsty, or even 3x bloodthirsty) will raise that number --- it just depends on what content you are aiming for and how high you want to go. Losing a little bit of personal DPS for survival, group utility, or group damage amplification is not a bad thing, it is just harder to make it look as good, even if it is making the groups you are in run a bit more smoothly.

If you want more class/build specific advice, feel free to send me a private message, and I'll work one out with you, even explaining why each aspect is chosen, from bar slots, weapons, rotation, mundus, food choice, everything so that you can move forward in the future confident that you at least have the knowledge and then just need the practice to raise it up.

This is a game --- Rule 1, always, is have fun.

ShadowDisciple

Royaji wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

It is exactly the opposite. If you want to go advanced, you will have to stop looking at Alcast.

These days there is a beginner-friendly setup in every build he posts. He shows simple, static rotations and hides the more advanced ones under spoilers or lists them as second option after giving you a warning that they are advanced. Pressing 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > *bar swap button* > repeat with mouse clicks in the middle and watching one or god forbid two buffs is really not that far from light attack spam or hardcasted frags.

Lol. First you say they arent advanced then u say Alcast provides advanced u just have to scroll down abit.

Which is it?

It's exactly as I said. Simple offered as first option and more advanced is there for those who want to look deeper. And I understand, english is hard but "more advanced" does not necessary equal "advanced". You won't find highest end dynamic rotation like Liko runs on Alcast's website.

Agreed....but going from Alcast to Liko is going from "Great Trial DPS player" to "TOP trial dps player"....and he is trying to go from "non-Trial rdy" to "Trial Ready DPS"...so using alcast rotations is more than optimal for him at this point....

JumpmanLane

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I think we can all understand why so many people give the "default" advice of "look at Alcast" when responding to people looking for build advice. A simple Google search alone of "ESO Builds" gives his site as the first result, without fail.

But after about five months of playing, I'm starting to question if that's the right thing to be doing, as someone who struggles to builds together himself.

Now, to clarify, I'm not bashing on Alcast. I've no doubt his published builds are great. I've no doubt his unpublished builds are even greater, if he has any. Actually it's precisely because they're good that I'm starting to wonder if they're really the best thing for someone who still very much considers himself a novice at best. But, with this said, Alcast is an exceptionally talented player, which gives me reason to doubt whether I should be looking that high right now, for build advice.

What I mean to ask is, would you say that the builds on his site have a higher skill requirement? I know ESO isn't the easiest game to play, and I'm not asking how I can be an elite player. That would be absurd. I'm simply looking to be able to achieve the following:

My goal is simply to be able to clear vet content. I don't really care about the skins, or the titles, or anything like that. Right now I just want to focus on being able to clear content. I'm currently struggling with harder content, such as DLC Vet dungeons.

I guess what I am asking is, should I look elsewhere for build hints/tips/ideas because I might find builds that are easier to play? Builds that have a lower skill requirement? I'm a stamblade BTW for my main, but I've finally started branching out to tanks and healers as well.

Can anyone make any suggestions on other sources?

As ever, I appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Don’t run that trash! Particularly in PvP. Lol.

russelmmendoza

I definitely suggest to join a guild.

A guild that runs pledges and trials.

They will help your gameplay grow and get better.

I dont do rotation when i was soloing the game, really like the questing when i first played. But when i tried to do a trial in craglorn, after finishing the 3 alliance story, i was shutdown because i was doing less 10k dps when i was ask to do a dps parse on a target dummy. Thanks to my first guild, i was able to clear vet dlc pledges and vet crag trials. And got my dps to 35k, not great, but good enough.

And I am a proud StamRedblade.

Elwendryll

I think following someone else's build is a great way to stop having fun while playing, at least for me.

When you get trapped in the idea that :" this is not optimal, you will lose dps if you use that, this race is better than this one to do that"... you end up feeling like there is only one way to play, and that you're stuck where you're at because of that.

I have enough experience to know what my class and race strengths and weaknesses are, and depending on my goals, I can build around them. I think we should teach new players (aiming for progression) how to build, and not give them builds, not without explaining them at least. To get really good, you need to really connect with your character. Find a playstyle that suits you, and push it to the best performance possible.

I followed the meta for a while, and I didn't get far, mainly because I lacked the will to play. Then I started making my own builds, with sets I liked, abilities I liked and I got my vMoL skin, Flawless Conqueror, March of Sacrifice HM and Speed Run, etc... And I had FUN

Vajrak

Elwendryll wrote: »

I think following someone else's build is a great way to stop having fun while playing, at least for me.

When you get trapped in the idea that :" this is not optimal, you will lose dps if you use that, this race is better than this one to do that"... you end up feeling like there is only one way to play, and that you're stuck where you're at because of that.

I have enough experience to know what my class and race strengths and weaknesses are, and depending on my goals, I can build around them. I think we should teach new players (aiming for progression) how to build, and not give them builds, not without explaining them at least. To get really good, you need to really connect with your character. Find a playstyle that suits you, and push it to the best performance possible.

I followed the meta for a while, and I didn't get far, mainly because I lacked the will to play. Then I started making my own builds, with sets I liked, abilities I liked and I got my vMoL skin, Flawless Conqueror, March of Sacrifice HM and Speed Run, etc... And I had FUN

And that is the point of Rule 1 -- It is a game.

Yes, there are things that are best-in-slot, but the beauty of ESO is that at near the top there are a lot of lateral moves that will give you the same overall output.

Again personal examples, with a loose dynamic rotation, I can readily and happily use:
Rattlecage+War Maiden+Slimecraw/Iceheart: 35-39k DPS
War Maiden+Mother's Sorrow+Grothdarr: 34-37k DPS
Destruction Mastery + War Maiden + Valkyn: 35-38k DPS
Spell Strategist+Mother's Sorrow + Slimecraw: 36-39k DPS

And I mix and match these sets as I go, depending on what I want to do, though admittedly most of the time I stay with Rattle/War because it just gives me the most flexibility and utility by opening up a bar slot for a flex skill instead of potions/entropy for major sorcery.

Really, the only thing all the posted builds on youtubers and build guru's show that is entirely consistent: Infused Back bar for buff (spell/weapon damage) or debuff (crusher) uptime is a pretty big boost.

MashmalloMan

It mostly comes down to what buffs and debuffs are available, Alcast's main builds are made for optimized groups. He will always use pots for Major Savagery, Major Brutality and Major Endurance. Always assume the boss has 100% uptime on penetration debuffs.

His end game builds also just push dps and throw survivability by the way side. Sustain is less of a concern because the groups they run with have all the major sustain sets and synergies.

Now there isn't anything wrong with all that, but if you feel your a newer player and need some of those things the builds consider redundant.. then you need to build that for yourself.

For example, Slimecraw monster set is very strong by providing minor berserk for yourself, but in a group, your healer is in charge of providing that same buff so if you trust that you can get a reliable uptime, the set is wasted.

Same goes for penetration values. It's one of the strongest stats but builds are made so as to not overpenetrate, once again, this is up to how well your group can reliably debuff the boss.

Blood Craze and Bloodthirst dual wield abilities both sacrifice a very tiny amount of dps for a lot of extra survivability, if you don't trust your healer or yourself, it may be wise to use those abilities instead. A dead dps is no dps, so why sacrifice .5% of your overall dps if you think it would help.

Double slotting fighters guild abilities for 3% weapon dmg instead of a skill like vigor.

The list goes on and on, his builds are great and provide a lot of information. You just need to figure out what works for you. Most of your dps comes from a solid rotation and good gear.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Just wanted to confirm that I am reading everything written here.

Thank you all.

Iskiab

Alcast’s builds are good for pve and pvp. People tweak them and change some things, but if you think everyone doesn’t check what he thinks before designing their builds you’re crazy.

PvE you can just copy/paste and do well. PvP he tends to go higher damage and lower survivability then I like.

Vajrak

Iskiab wrote: »

Alcast’s builds are good for pve and pvp. People tweak them and change some things, but if you think everyone doesn’t check what he thinks before designing their builds you’re crazy.

PvE you can just copy/paste and do well. PvP he tends to go higher damage and lower survivability then I like.

I know, and am one of, the people who disregard or ignore his builds because they are for a specific niche, and generally don't provide enough information --- even worse if you take the time to look at/compare them against each other, they are the same 2-3 builds with changes made just for activating class passives. That is the height of lazy building, but it works for his specific niche and personal skill set/groups.

Bladerunner1

I'd recommend building up some survivability at first as you learn dungeons, and Nightblade has plenty of options. I think some might be covered in the Alcast guide, but recently Vigor seems to be removed. Don't go without vigor if you're heading into an unfamiliar place or joining a group that isn't throwing lots of heals around. For an extra chunk of mitigation you could also add deadly cloak somewhere, or Blur since you have a Stamblade.

And the whole idea that melee is the best and only option for Stamblade is also somewhat limiting and could be difficult for newer players to pull off. Last night I took my Stamblade into vAS with a bow/bow build and it was brilliant. The frantic rush to get out of AOE and not die turned into a casual stroll this time around. I had Mirage, Resolving Vigor, Leeching Strikes, Dark Shade + Shadow Barrier, Relentless Focus stacked to 5 during the worst AOE moments, and crushing weapon as the spammable. There was so much mitigation and self healing it was just insane, and I'm sacrificing very little DPS to place those skills on the bars since there is lots of room on Nightblade bow/bow bars. You could use all those options on a melee build too, if you wanted.

Nestor

I have yet to mirror a build from the internet. What I do is gain inspiration and ideas from builds and make up my own that work for me.

I have a lot more fun running my builds, and hence have more success that trying to copy something else. Especially since so many of these builds require being able to beat VMA or do a HM Vet Trial. If I am good enough to do that content, then I don't need a build.

p00tx

Alcast's builds provide great templates for players who may some help finding their build direction. However, contrary to what you may have heard, there are endless combinations of loadouts that you can choose from, and you have to decide how far from Alcast's templates you want to stray. In the end, you have to build something that you like and that allows you to both survive and sustain with your unique playstyle (although raid awareness and mechanical knowledge are the best damage mitigators in the game).

Liofa

Following builds isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is blindly following it. If you want to advance, you'll have to question everything. Question literally everything. Why X race over Y race, why daggers over maces, why he uses Endless Hail first when he swaps to Bow bar, why LA > Swap > Endless Hail instead of Swap > LA > Endless Hail etc. Most important thing you can learn from following builds are answers to these type of questions. As you find those answers and learn the game more, you'll find yourself in a state that you can understand what will be best while reading patch notes. At that point, you can easily start making your own builds. Here are two links that helps me immensely while preparing a build, incredibly helpful:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Learn how to use them and start theorycrafting. As for builds to follow, keep following Alcast, great for a beginner and advanced as he provides both options in every build. Tag or message me if you have any questions.