Is Flawless Dawnbreaker overused?

Dr_Ganknstein

I know we all love the 5% increase to weapon damage plus another 3% from the Slayer passive but many times I try slotting another ultimate and end up reslotting flawless db. Did they purposely make it bis for stam dps? It seems like the utility of lesser ultimates dont make up for the raw damage increase. Where do you submit nerf requests? Like 96% of every build that's out there uses it. I think its over the top. Maybe like a -43% damage reduction?
/munches_popcorn

EtTuBrutus

It's flawless....

ChunkyCat

My magDk doesn’t use it. So I guess the answer is no.

Chilly-McFreeze

Icky wrote: »

I know we all love the 5% increase to weapon damage plus another 3% from the Slayer passive but many times I try slotting another ultimate and end up reslotting flawless db. Did they purposely make it bis for stam dps? It seems like the utility of lesser ultimates dont make up for the raw damage increase. Where do you submit nerf requests? Like 96% of every build that's out there uses it. I think its over the top. Maybe like a -43% damage reduction?
/munches_popcorn

Sure, go ahead and nerf it. Just make sure you give us good class ultimates in return for stam.

Barbaran

If more class ultis did high physical damage with a stun I'm sure more would be used.

Big damage, physical, aoe, stun, extra damage to undead/deadra, passive weapon damage increase....

I don't see why not to use it

Royaji

Let's see about that "everyone", shall we?

DK: has leap, which is pretty much a weaker Dawnbreaker without passive buffs and standard that deals flame damage.
NB: uses Incap over Flawless in majortiy of cases.
Sorc: has no in-class stam ultimate.
Templar: in-class stam ultimate is a meme.
Warden: anything except bear is a DPS loss.
Necromancer: if you are not using colossus you are doing it wrong.

So 3 out of 6 and mostly because their class ultimates are either non-existent or hot garbage.

Dr_Ganknstein

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

I know we all love the 5% increase to weapon damage plus another 3% from the Slayer passive but many times I try slotting another ultimate and end up reslotting flawless db. Did they purposely make it bis for stam dps? It seems like the utility of lesser ultimates dont make up for the raw damage increase. Where do you submit nerf requests? Like 96% of every build that's out there uses it. I think its over the top. Maybe like a -43% damage reduction?
/munches_popcorn

Sure, go ahead and nerf it. Just make sure you give us good class ultimates in return for stam.

Exactly my point. It's better than almost every class ultimate.

Beardimus

Icky wrote: »

I know we all love the 5% increase to weapon damage plus another 3% from the Slayer passive but many times I try slotting another ultimate and end up reslotting flawless db. Did they purposely make it bis for stam dps? It seems like the utility of lesser ultimates dont make up for the raw damage increase. Where do you submit nerf requests? Like 96% of every build that's out there uses it. I think its over the top. Maybe like a -43% damage reduction?
/munches_popcorn

Yep all the Stam guys use it. And a fair few magika, and meteor / shooting star not near as popular in comparison- despite being harder (well effort) to get.

Dr_Ganknstein

I was being. Little sarcastic but my point is most other ultimates suck in comparison.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I like it over incap at the moment. Is it OP? Idk. Certainly has no draw backs. Strong burst, strong DoT, passive weapon damage x2, AoE cone, cheap.

erio

Yes. Comeplete shutdown for all stamblades.

JobooAGS

Dawnbreaker of Smiting in pvp, yes it seems overused, and that is because there arent many good options. Classes like sorc do not have a good class ult. Warden doesnt have a good burst ult (the bear is garbage in pvp and takes up 2 ult slots and permafrost, while it is great in group play, it is damage over time and doesnt scale with stam cp that well). Templar's empowering sweep was changed from a defensive ult (the major protection was nice, wish zos kept that) to an offensive one. I havent tested it that extensively, maybe someone else can tell me more about it. It is cheap, has highish burst dmg, can proc burning light, has a blade cloak/hurricane like dot around you which can also proc burning light, but no stun attached. NB incap is another story and it seems like most players, nb and otherwise alike dislike the silence and instead want practically anything else on it. Many nbs already ditched incap for dbos or just remorphed to soul harvest which doesnt scale off of cp that well, but has ult gen and major defile.

Also damaging weapon ults don't really compare to dbos. DW ult is greatly lacking in comparison, it is a big dot that heals you for half the dmg caused, but the dot is mitigated by bs and cp, is quite buggy, and more expensive too. I only encountered 1 person that actively uses it. Onslaught is dodgable, single target, and is mostly a ganking tool but I seen some builds use it as a finisher/execute. Ballista is decent, but like onslaught it is dodgable, single target and expensive compared to dbos and its utility.

I almost never seen flawless dawnbreaker in pvp. I guess 5% more weapon dmg doesn't really compare to bigger burst and dot dmg with a stun. pve, I think this morph is still bis front bar for non wardens & war machine nbs.

SodanTok

Is this pve post in pvp section or how does it work. Flawless DB isnt overpowered, its simply the only ultimate that gives something passive and in because current PVE combat design is about using just one ult the value in anything passive (even 1% weapon damage) is invaluable.

In PVP anyone that uses flawless DB is looking exactly for the same mechanic of dead ulti for stats. Tho its rare someone has spot for stat ulti on their frontbar.

Nerftheforums

People use dbos because it's one of the few good stam ults. People don't use it because it's op, people use it because there isn't another choice.

Stamsorc has no stam ult.
Stamden has no burst ult, perma is good but not as good when you're not in a medium to big size group (6+), dbos just grants you kills more reliably.
Templar has...radiant sweep? Total poop, especially after the nerf to major protection it just received.
Dks have leap, but you know how bad leap used to work. Idk for this patch but the times it failed to connect used to be more or less a third of the times it hit. Moreover, it scatters people around which isn't really optimal, especially if you play in groups.
Stamnbs have incap, but atm, on live, you have an ult playing against yourself if you can't cast it before 120 ult. Using dbos has never been so appealing on stamnb as in this patch.

idk

If it was overused then Zos would have had no reason to nerf incapacitating strike.

Just because one dies a lot to the skill does not make it overused.

Baphomet

It's just too good not to use in most cases.

A 20% damage reduction would objetively speaking be a good tweak.

Edit: And that damage reduction should come with a few buffs to other stam ulties, of course.

Tommy_The_Gun

I guess... I guess it is time to remove more redundancy...

SpiderCultist

more than overused, overtuned

since ever

Lord-Otto

Nerftheforums wrote: »

People use dbos because it's one of the few good stam ults. People don't use it because it's op, people use it because there isn't another choice.

Stamsorc has no stam ult.
Stamden has no burst ult, perma is good but not as good when you're not in a medium to big size group (6+), dbos just grants you kills more reliably.
Templar has...radiant sweep? Total poop, especially after the nerf to major protection it just received.
Dks have leap, but you know how bad leap used to work. Idk for this patch but the times it failed to connect used to be more or less a third of the times it hit. Moreover, it scatters people around which isn't really optimal, especially if you play in groups.
Stamnbs have incap, but atm, on live, you have an ult playing against yourself if you can't cast it before 120 ult. Using dbos has never been so appealing on stamnb as in this patch.

Read your stuff again. You start well, but then your point actually shifts. In the end, you conclude Dawnbreaker is simply BETTER than the other ults. So it IS overperforming.
Look at magicka players! DK has the same issues as its stamina brethren. So does templar. Soul Harvest is now comparable to Incap, magblades used to chose the stam morph prior. Warden is cool, literally. But sorc has an expensive, tricky and just situational atronach. And what do magicka classes to compensate? Effing delayed, telegraphed, expensive, no WW bonus Meteor.
Dawnbreaker is leagues above that.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

People use dbos because it's one of the few good stam ults. People don't use it because it's op, people use it because there isn't another choice.

Stamsorc has no stam ult.
Stamden has no burst ult, perma is good but not as good when you're not in a medium to big size group (6+), dbos just grants you kills more reliably.
Templar has...radiant sweep? Total poop, especially after the nerf to major protection it just received.
Dks have leap, but you know how bad leap used to work. Idk for this patch but the times it failed to connect used to be more or less a third of the times it hit. Moreover, it scatters people around which isn't really optimal, especially if you play in groups.
Stamnbs have incap, but atm, on live, you have an ult playing against yourself if you can't cast it before 120 ult. Using dbos has never been so appealing on stamnb as in this patch.

Read your stuff again. You start well, but then your point actually shifts. In the end, you conclude Dawnbreaker is simply BETTER than the other ults. So it IS overperforming.
Look at magicka players! DK has the same issues as its stamina brethren. So does templar. Soul Harvest is now comparable to Incap, magblades used to chose the stam morph prior. Warden is cool, literally. But sorc has an expensive, tricky and just situational atronach. And what do magicka classes to compensate? Effing delayed, telegraphed, expensive, no WW bonus Meteor.
Dawnbreaker is leagues above that.

Are we still talking about the PvE side here? I mean, sure, it's pvp forum but flawless is the pve morph. Also: destro ult.

Davadin

man i just wish they buff up the 2H/DW Ultis..........

Lord-Otto

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

People use dbos because it's one of the few good stam ults. People don't use it because it's op, people use it because there isn't another choice.

Stamsorc has no stam ult.
Stamden has no burst ult, perma is good but not as good when you're not in a medium to big size group (6+), dbos just grants you kills more reliably.
Templar has...radiant sweep? Total poop, especially after the nerf to major protection it just received.
Dks have leap, but you know how bad leap used to work. Idk for this patch but the times it failed to connect used to be more or less a third of the times it hit. Moreover, it scatters people around which isn't really optimal, especially if you play in groups.
Stamnbs have incap, but atm, on live, you have an ult playing against yourself if you can't cast it before 120 ult. Using dbos has never been so appealing on stamnb as in this patch.

Read your stuff again. You start well, but then your point actually shifts. In the end, you conclude Dawnbreaker is simply BETTER than the other ults. So it IS overperforming.
Look at magicka players! DK has the same issues as its stamina brethren. So does templar. Soul Harvest is now comparable to Incap, magblades used to chose the stam morph prior. Warden is cool, literally. But sorc has an expensive, tricky and just situational atronach. And what do magicka classes to compensate? Effing delayed, telegraphed, expensive, no WW bonus Meteor.
Dawnbreaker is leagues above that.

Are we still talking about the PvE side here? I mean, sure, it's pvp forum but flawless is the pve morph. Also: destro ult.

I was referring to PvP. Flawless in PvE for the slot buff is more or less on par with Meteor or the new Incap or other class slot boni. I take it you mean destro ult for PvE?

Vapirko

There are just a few skills in this game that most people use because they’re good. That’s fine, it doesn’t make them OP. Should we nerf elemental drain, wall of elements, elemental weapon, vigor, rending slashes, endless hail, rearming trap, caltrops, poison injection, ransack, mutagen, healing springs, and every other skill used by a certain role?

Davadin wrote: »

man i just wish they buff up the 2H/DW Ultis..........

2H ult is fine, and the DW ult is very strong but the bow ult is better so there’s no point in slotting it if you want absolutely top tier dps. But if you like it you could still use it. I like it in vMA sometimes.

NBrookus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Read your stuff again. You start well, but then your point actually shifts. In the end, you conclude Dawnbreaker is simply BETTER than the other ults. So it IS overperforming.
Look at magicka players! DK has the same issues as its stamina brethren. So does templar. Soul Harvest is now comparable to Incap, magblades used to chose the stam morph prior. Warden is cool, literally. But sorc has an expensive, tricky and just situational atronach. And what do magicka classes to compensate? Effing delayed, telegraphed, expensive, no WW bonus Meteor.
Dawnbreaker is leagues above that.

Crescent Sweep is actually pretty nice. It's just hard to land on a slow class, even with the much-needed range increase.

Davadin

Vapirko wrote: »

There are just a few skills in this game that most people use because they’re good. That’s fine, it doesn’t make them OP. Should we nerf elemental drain, wall of elements, elemental weapon, vigor, rending slashes, endless hail, rearming trap, caltrops, poison injection, ransack, mutagen, healing springs, and every other skill used by a certain role?

Davadin wrote: »

man i just wish they buff up the 2H/DW Ultis..........

2H ult is fine, and the DW ult is very strong but the bow ult is better so there’s no point in slotting it if you want absolutely top tier dps. But if you like it you could still use it. I like it in vMA sometimes.

DW ult very strong?

like, for PvE?

Urvoth

If more offensive ults were viable, you'd see less DBs being used. The problem is with the lack of viable alternatives. Even mag chars will often use DB over something like meteor since it's just better overall.

Lord-Otto

NBrookus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Read your stuff again. You start well, but then your point actually shifts. In the end, you conclude Dawnbreaker is simply BETTER than the other ults. So it IS overperforming.
Look at magicka players! DK has the same issues as its stamina brethren. So does templar. Soul Harvest is now comparable to Incap, magblades used to chose the stam morph prior. Warden is cool, literally. But sorc has an expensive, tricky and just situational atronach. And what do magicka classes to compensate? Effing delayed, telegraphed, expensive, no WW bonus Meteor.
Dawnbreaker is leagues above that.

Crescent Sweep is actually pretty nice. It's just hard to land on a slow class, even with the much-needed range increase.

It's acceptable. But Dawnbreaker gives a somewhat notorious CC, hefty DoT and bonus damage to vamps and werewolves. HUGE bonus damage. It is far better.
I don't wanna imply that ZOS should nerf Dawnbreaker to all hell. It enables so many good combos. But other ults could use a boon. And especially Meteor is just incredibly unfairly useless in comparison.

katorga

BiS is not a reason to nerf.

CatchMeTrolling

It’s partially too good and it’s also not any other ults to use. Either way the recent buff was unnecessary. Even if you buff the other ults dawnbreaker will still be better.

Vapirko

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

It’s partially too good and it’s also not any other ults to use. Either way the recent buff was unnecessary. Even if you buff the other ults dawnbreaker will still be better.

FOR THE LAST TIME IT WASNT A BUFF. DBoS was compensated for a big up front damage change due to the DoT portion being spaced out. It is now much less up front burst than it was. If this change was reverted it would be stronger than it is now.

jediodyn_ESO

Yes. Should have made this a poll.