Cleave after patch

Demra

I'm curious to hear what people think about cleave's morphs in cp and no-cp PvP after the patch. Are they a worthy spamable?

Iskiab

Spammable? I’m using the dot version and love it, can’t use it as a spammable though.

It’s my favourite 2h ability.

MaxJrFTW

Iskiab wrote: »

Spammable? I’m using the dot version and love it, can’t use it as a spammable though.

It’s my favourite 2h ability.

Care to explain why it can't be used as a spammable? The dmg is just below the regular single target spammables, and the cost is slightly above or equal in some cases. Obviously if you use Carve you have to keep in mind that DOTs now take 2 seconds before the 1st tick. You don't have that problem with the shield morph though.

Cleave is not the ideal spammable, but i don't see why it can't be used as one.

LordTareq

I tried it (the shield morph), I could see it work on a tanky brawler. For my high damage Stamblade the damage is too low to use as my main spammable. The damage shield is nice and does help with survivability a lot.

Iskiab

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Spammable? I’m using the dot version and love it, can’t use it as a spammable though.

It’s my favourite 2h ability.

Care to explain why it can't be used as a spammable? The dmg is just below the regular single target spammables, and the cost is slightly above or equal in some cases. Obviously if you use Carve you have to keep in mind that DOTs now take 2 seconds before the 1st tick. You don't have that problem with the shield morph though.

Cleave is not the ideal spammable, but i don't see why it can't be used as one.

Well, if you spam it the dot will never tick. To use a dot ability like a spammable it has to tick after 1 second like the old rending which was powerful because you usually got the initial dd plus one dot tick. If you’re going to use it as a spammable I’d use brawler.

Aedaryl

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Good for a DoT to help with pressure. Not something you would want to spam.

Abhaya

I will say that, while sometimes difficult to pull off, brawler or carve with a master’s two-hand can be really deadly if you can manage to stack the targets up. The cone is harder to use than the typical steel tornado aoe but in keeps and resources where people typically stack up it is awesome. I had a situation where I charged into the front door of Sej and used the guards as additional targets while attacking a single player and I’m pretty sure it was hitting for close to 8k. I didn’t get the exact number but he went down in 3 swings with no other dots or anyone else attacking him.

DokThor90

Abhaya wrote: »

I will say that, while sometimes difficult to pull off, brawler or carve with a master’s two-hand can be really deadly if you can manage to stack the targets up. The cone is harder to use than the typical steel tornado aoe but in keeps and resources where people typically stack up it is awesome. I had a situation where I charged into the front door of Sej and used the guards as additional targets while attacking a single player and I’m pretty sure it was hitting for close to 8k. I didn’t get the exact number but he went down in 3 swings with no other dots or anyone else attacking him.

I do this since warden came out - Permafrost - sub assault - 2h master cleave. Ive killed 5- even 20 people solo in 4 Seconds on a normal 1X build.

Davadin

loving it. is it spammable? yes. Do u want to spam it?

well that depend on ur build.

but i love Carve now.

TheYKcid

Aedaryl wrote: »

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

Carve actually has an initial hit tooltip 3x of Rending, BUT Rending deals two instances of damage.

So the net inital damage on Carve ends up being 50% higher than Rending, which is still pretty sweet and justified given the much higher cost and lack of an additional utility effect (Snare on Rending, HoT on Bloodcraze).

Aedaryl

TheYKcid wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

Carve actually has an initial hit tooltip 3x of Rending, BUT Rending deals two instances of damage.

So the net inital damage on Carve ends up being 50% higher than Rending, which is still pretty sweet and justified given the much higher cost and lack of an additional utility effect (Snare on Rending, HoT on Bloodcraze).

Yup, thanks for the fix

Ragnarock41

Aedaryl wrote: »

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

There is no master weapon that increases carve dot to ridicilous levels nor does 2h have any of the juicy dps passives dual wield has.(carve is aoe with higher cost, in return rending is ST with an extra effect and reduced cost. So the trade off is there.)

This is coming from someone who hates bleed builds, carve is just fine in my opinion. However I was expecting people to use the other morph, not gonna lie I am disappointed.

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

There is no master weapon that increases carve dot to ridicilous levels nor does 2h have any of the juicy dps passives dual wield has.(carve is aoe with higher cost, in return rending is ST with an extra effect and reduced cost. So the trade off is there.)

This is coming from someone who hates bleed builds, carve is just fine in my opinion. However I was expecting people to use the other morph, not gonna lie I am disappointed.

I'm not disappointed with my Master Axe. +1500 per enemy.

I'm hitting 6-9k per person when I'm swinging into a middle of a zerg. This is full CP Cyrodiil.

For single target, Nox still works better before they go below 50%, at which u switch to Reverse Strike. For particularly thicc victim, u can Fossilize/Dizzying after Nox/Carve to get them below 50%.

Carve is great. And with Master 2H, it's awesome. Don't touch it.

TheYKcid wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

Carve actually has an initial hit tooltip 3x of Rending, BUT Rending deals two instances of damage.

So the net inital damage on Carve ends up being 50% higher than Rending, which is still pretty sweet and justified given the much higher cost and lack of an additional utility effect (Snare on Rending, HoT on Bloodcraze).

well, Carve has DoT... mine's tooltip is at 15k DoT.

is that not a utility?

TheYKcid

Wat.

Davadin

TheYKcid wrote: »

Wat.

u said Carve have no utility. but ur other example is Blood Crazy, which has a HoT.

If HoT a utility, would you consider DoT as a utility too?

Royaji

Davadin wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Wat.

u said Carve have no utility. but ur other example is Blood Crazy, which has a HoT.

If HoT a utility, would you consider DoT as a utility too?

Any kind of damage is per definition not utility. Utility is something you get in addition to damage - buffs, healing, shields and so on.

Davadin

Royaji wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Wat.

u said Carve have no utility. but ur other example is Blood Crazy, which has a HoT.

If HoT a utility, would you consider DoT as a utility too?

Any kind of damage is per definition not utility. Utility is something you get in addition to damage - buffs, healing, shields and so on.

ah i get ya.

sorry, english not my strongest skill lol... i thought DoT is a "utility".

Vermethys

As a spammable, I don't think it's any good. But I tried it for a bit in Battlegrounds on my StamDK instead of Stampede, and it fit nicely with Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw, and all the other DoTs, but I ended up removing it because it's a short ranged cone attack (harder to land than Noxious or Dawnbreaker with lag and fast moving players) and it sort of off-set my simple familiar "rotation" of Noxious > Claw > Reverb and Heroic Slash Spam. In 1v1s it was fantastic though.

I imagine that it would be nice on builds that have access to Major Expedition, because the only ability I could replace was Stampede and I'm a complete turtle without it. Cleave might be particularly effective on classes that lack DoTs (assuming they use 2h + S&B) -- so maybe StamSorc, StamNecro, and Stamplar. But it's a healthy buff overall imo.

susmitds

Damage is nice and all but I don't really see any reason to see outside of classes without better spammable. Brawler is good and all but against good enemies, it is hard to land consistently unlike Power Extraction or Noxious Breath.

Stx

If they added utility to carve it might be too much because it's an aoe attack. But I do miss the minor heroism.

killahsin

the shield morph feels useless to me in cp pvp currently. In PVE it is legit, but in pvp its hilariously meh.

Davadin

so new cleave has shorter range than Nox??

i never had problem landing them, just like Nox.

killahsin wrote: »

the shield morph feels useless to me in cp pvp currently. In PVE it is legit, but in pvp its hilariously meh.

that's coz it's harder to land them unless ur hitting the middle of a Zerg. thus, if ur only hitting 1-2 players, the shield is really meh.

Kinda like my Master Axe. it buff the dmg based on number of player i hit. So unless I'm clearing a farming tower, it's no better than regular cleave.

ps: may want to put some CP into Bastion (or whichever increase ur self-buff shield) to max out brawler. u invest in this CP and u can get max shield easily, effectively doubling ur health.

MentalxHammer

I have a stam warden build using carve with masters 2h, designed for group utility and aoe burst. I will release the build soon.

rabidmyers

Aedaryl wrote: »

Carve has the exact same bleed than rending slashes but in AoE

But carve initial damage is more than twice than renging slashes one.

But the cost is higher and it has no snare.

well actually rending does have a bit more bleed dmg, not the exact same

MentalxHammer

Cleave damage is definitely viable now, however the ability needs an increase in the range of the conal, it still feels unreliable at 7 meters. ZoS could we please see a 1 meter range increase to put cleave in line with other conals such as puncturing sweeps?

Insco851

Cleave still have that buggy ass animation where your character has to pause to swing? Always been a deal breaker for me.