Official Player-Khajiit Furstock?

Skotty

With the release of Elsweyr, new light has been cast on a topic of still some debate.
An old official article of ZOS had stated officially: All Khajiit NPCs and Players are Suthay-raht.
However, with Elsweyr we have at least two Khajiit sharing the same model as the player who both are named to be Cathay/Cathay-raht.
I was told by trustworthy source that on the PAX, ZOS staff has told Player Khajiit are now Cathay(-raht) - dropping the old statement from 2013 in favour for more consistency.

The question I now pose is, simply to have it "offically written down" (hopefully by an answer by ZOS staff):
Are Player Khajiit and most of the default Khajiit NPCs we see truly officially Cathay(-raht?) now (referring to in-game dialoge and the PAX statement)?
@ZOS_LeamonTuttle

Aliyavana

The playable furstock was confirmed to be cathay by leamon tuttle here https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/welcome_to_the_elsweyr_update_22_aua/epwryi1/?context=3

Aliyavana

SniperDaria wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

we are cathay, as confirmed by leamon tuttle, please see the accepted answer.

I'm fine with that, except the guy who wrote the dialogue for Ilarana doesn't seem to have read that post..

Maybe they should get together and hash it out and let us know what's what..

there is inconsistancies in height among the dagi and dagi-raht too. Samari, who is a Dagi, is the same height as Raiffi, a Dagi-raht. Today's aua confirmed that raht are infact generally still bigger than non raht khajiit, tho ingame this isn't properly represented.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Samari
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Raiffi

Claudman

I am just as confused as you.

The player Khajiit were Suthay-Raht to Cathay if I recall. I was under the impression that Cathay--Raht were the really tall folk and Pahmar-Raht were the same as Cathay-Raht but a bit taller/strong.

This is confusing as the Legends card for Cathay-Raht is this below...


And the Pahmar-Raht are this below...


I don't know who's wrong anymore. The NPCs, the book of lore or the Devs. It's a good expansion with good writing nevertheless, but this furstock stuff is confusing me even more now. If players are Cathay-Raht, what about the previous games which said the player characters were Suthay-Raht? What's the difference between Suthay-Raht or Cathay-Raht if they are the same height and look the same? Man, I'm so confused.

EDIT: Also this is the Cathay Card below...

Bruccius

@Claudman
IIRC, the Khajiit in TES III were Suthay, which would imply that their unique forms limits their access to foot and headwear.

Though as to what Khajiit we are in ESO... well, that's another matter entirely.

Claudman

@Bruccius

The TES3 Khajiit were actually Suthay-Raht. The source being the dialog from the Khajiiti NPCs.
I think that digitigrade nature has been long since retconned though and they're now stated to be Tojay/Tojay-Raht.

This is a Tojay-Raht statue.

I think this confusion could be easily solved by saying the Suthay to Cathay-Raht distinction is all dependent on how tall and buff you make your Khajiit tbh.

Skotty

The Suthay statue also has digitigrade legs in ESO.
As for previous games: None other than TES Redguard and TES 3 officially featured Suthay-raht. TES 4 and 5 remain unstated entirely. Giving ZOS a chance now to indeed switch over to Cathay.
However, as much as I like it, I am not here for a discussion about the matter. I simply hope for an official answer to clear it up.

Robo_Hobo

I'm glad for it, now there can be an actual distinction between Suthays and Cathays besides a small difference in height, and TES3 Morrowind digitigrade Suthay-raht aren't forgotten.

I never liked when it was said ESO Khajiit were Suthay-raht, because it just felt like it was taking away from TES3's interpretation.

Hopefully we'll get to see Suthay/-raht and Tojay/-raht in all of their digitigrade glory in NPC form sometime in the future of ESO, but for now I'm quite satisfied with Alfiq, Dagi-raht, Senche-raht, Pahmar-raht, and knowing that the standard common Khajiit all over are Cathay/-raht.

Oh yeah, and Ohmes/-raht, can't forget them. Glad there's an Ohmes-raht statue confirmimg they aren't backing out of them looking humanish, hope to see them too some time.

Nilarynpaw

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Glad there's an Ohmes-raht statue confirmimg they aren't backing out of them looking humanish, hope to see them too some time.

Where's this statue?

Robo_Hobo

Nilarynpaw wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Glad there's an Ohmes-raht statue confirmimg they aren't backing out of them looking humanish, hope to see them too some time.

Where's this statue?

@Nilarynpaw

You can see it in various places throughout the chapter, and as furnishing item called "Ohmes-raht Statue, Trickster". It will be a part of an upcoming Elsweyr furnishing bundle too, along with some of the other statues.

Here's a picture of it.

Tensar

The Pahmar of ESO are just a redesigned "normal khajit", just "a bit" taller... I don't like them they are really bad looking in ESO, they are so simple. Just taller but not stronger

Nilarynpaw

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Nilarynpaw wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Glad there's an Ohmes-raht statue confirmimg they aren't backing out of them looking humanish, hope to see them too some time.

Where's this statue?

@Nilarynpaw

You can see it in various places throughout the chapter, and as furnishing item called "Ohmes-raht Statue, Trickster". It will be a part of an upcoming Elsweyr furnishing bundle too, along with some of the other statues.

Here's a picture of it.

Oh I see, I didn't know about this so far.
I guess I'll have to pay more attention to the environment while playing.
Thank you for the info and for the image too!

I secretely hope that one day we'll be able to see one npc like this in game too.

SniperDaria

I wouild also like some clarification. I have probably missed something, but I would like to know the furstock of all the Khajits we have seen so far:

Alfiq:


Alfiq-Raht:
?

Tojay:


Tojay-Raht:


Suthay:


Suthay-Raht:


Cathay:


Cathay-Raht?:


(Says she is, but she is the same size as the Cathay)

Ohmes:


Ohmes-Raht:


Dagi:


Dagi-Raht:


(Says she is, but she is the same size as the Dagi)

Pahmer:
?

Pahmer-Raht:


Senche?:


Senche-Raht:

(He says right out that he is Senche-Raht, but he seems small to me)

Is he a Senche-Raht also?:

gurluasb16_ESO

The really tall Khajit with big muscles and a tiger face are the Pahmar-rath.
As for Alfiq-rath, some Alfiq are significantly larger, maybe they're the Alfiq-rath?
And yes the last two are Senche-rath afaik.

As for that white tiger...
If it can speak and is sentient, then it's a senche. If it's a big non-sentient tiger, then it's just a senche-tiger which isn't sentient or a Khajit.

SniperDaria

I think maybe you are right about the Pahmar-Raht.. I looked at all the ones I could find and they do all look like tigers. I talked to them all too but none identified their furstock. Anyone know of one that does? I talked to 3 in Rimmen and 1 in Riverhold

LennoxPoodle

I'm a bit disappointed in the Senche (Raht). The Senche Raht in Elsweyr actually look how a "normal" senche should look like. I mean pevious descriptions mention them being two Altmer (not Bosmer!!!) high. They really fall more in the sentient war-beast and not sentient mount category. At least they've done the shorter hind legs right.

On another matter: The Dagi really look the most like Skyrims Khajiit. Does this confirm the ones in TES VI are Dagi? They look really different from ESO and Oblivion (and even more from the other games ofc). But then again those in Oblivion too look very different from ESOs Cathay.

SniperDaria

LennoxPoodle wrote: »

The Dagi really look the most like Skyrims Khajiit. Does this confirm the ones in TES VI are Dagi? They look really different from ESO and Oblivion (and even more from the other games ofc). But then again those in Oblivion too look very different from ESOs Cathay.

If you look at the screen shot of the Dagi I posted I included my "Bosmer" as a size reference. He is only about 4 feet tall, as are all the other numerous Dagi found throughout Elsweyr. The ones in Skyrim were much taller, so Cathay IMO.

LennoxPoodle

@SniperDaria Hmm, okay. The face (ears) still looks very similar though. Maybe the ones in Skyrim are Dagi-Raht then.

Aside from that I'd wished for a more legends like Pahmer-Raht, having a mor quadrupedal head alignmend (sticking more forward) and being somewhat hunched like some earlier species of IRL humanity.

Robo_Hobo

@SniperDaria

Here's a Cathay-raht you can add to that collection



Also a Dagi-raht, which is the same height as the Dagi in your picture, so maybe your Dagi is actually a Dagi-raht as well and just used the non-raht term as shorthand, seen that in a couple other cases too.




And here's the confirmation picture that the big Khajiit are Pahmar-raht.

SniperDaria

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

@SniperDaria

Here's a Cathay-raht you can add to that collection

Thanks! I will add that That group clears some things up, but the Dagi/Dagi-Raht thing is confusing.. I will move him to Dagi-Raht because it is conceivable a Dagi-Raht could refer to himself as a Dagi for the sake of brevity, but not the other way around.

This is also confusing, because if she is a Cathay-Raht, then so are we:



That player made her Khajiit on the small side and they are the same size..

Aliyavana

SniperDaria wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

@SniperDaria

Here's a Cathay-raht you can add to that collection

Thanks! I will add that That group clears some things up, but the Dagi/Dagi-Raht thing is confusing.. I will move him to Dagi-Raht because it is conceivable a Dagi-Raht could refer to himself as a Dagi for the sake of brevity, but not the other way around.

This is also confusing, because if she is a Cathay-Raht, then so are we:



That player made her Khajiit on the small side and they are the same size..

we are cathay, as confirmed by leamon tuttle, please see the accepted answer.

SniperDaria

Aliyavana wrote: »

we are cathay, as confirmed by leamon tuttle, please see the accepted answer.

I'm fine with that, except the guy who wrote the dialogue for Ilarana doesn't seem to have read that post..

Maybe they should get together and hash it out and let us know what's what..

SniperDaria

Aliyavana wrote: »

there is inconsistancies in height among the dagi and dagi-raht too. Samari, who is a Dagi, is the same height as Raiffi, a Dagi-raht. Today's aua confirmed that raht are infact generally still bigger than non raht khajiit, tho ingame this isn't properly represented.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Samari
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Raiffi

Shoot. That makes this whole exercise kind of pointless then..

Aliyavana

I am personally hoping for Ohmes top be depicted as anime cat girls so I can create a top tier anime waifu.

SniperDaria

Robo_Hobo

Oh cool, glad to know Leamon finally gave his word on it!

Yeah the height differences can be confusing, I think maybe one of the reasons that -raht Khajiit refer to themselves as the furstock without -raht is because maybe the height differences aren't as significant as we once believed, thus making the distinction only really slight except for Ohmes to Ohmes-raht and possibly Senche to Senche-raht.

I mean after all, our own height slider is a pretty noticeable difference from smallest to highest, so there's bound to be cases when there's a tall Cathay that's taller than a short Cathay-raht. Throw in age influencing height (which isn't really shown much in-game but still a point to think of culturally) and then for the most part, the -raht and non-raht furstocks might as well be the same (unless Ohmes or possibly Senche again)

Xarko

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised nobody mentioned the absolute HUGE Khajiit NPCs in the new intro zone.

czar

Just gonna throw in here that Zamarak is really tall, so if player-Khajiit are Cathay, and -raht only means that they are taller, then he must be a Cathay-raht, no?

SniperDaria

You guys definitely have a point. I never played the tutorial so I made a khajiit male max height and Zamarak and Grand Adept Ma'jha-dro are both almost a head taller..



I will add them with a ?

Xarko

Yes and there are also even(significantly) taller Pahmar random NPCs and tiny Dagi training in the gardens there.

I was thinking they could add a lot of customization to Khajiit simply by allowing us to be as tall as the tallest Altmer and as small as the smallest Bosmer. I know we are supposed to be Cathey, BUT the customization to create a Dagi or a Pahmar are all there, the only thing remaining is proper height.

Hallothiel

Have also noticed that Lord Gharesh-ri must be a Cathy-raht as he is a head taller than my Khajiit (maxed height) & the same size as Zamarak.