BiS race for tank?
CMDR_Un1k0rn
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I'm starting to take this game more seriously then I used to, and I think it's time to try my hand at tanking: A role that I frequently dismiss because reasons that are too stupid to put to text.
Simple question:
What race is BiS for Tank? Is it still Argonian, or have other races taken over? Furthermore, why is it that these races are BiS?
This will be my last thread tonight.
TIA.
Simple question:
What race is BiS for Tank? Is it still Argonian, or have other races taken over? Furthermore, why is it that these races are BiS?
This will be my last thread tonight.
TIA.
In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!
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Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭The top three are equally good: Imperial, Nord and Argonian.
Argonian for sustain
Imperial a bit of sustain and max stats
Nord for ult gen and max stats
Depends on what you prefer. I'd go Nord but I like Lizards so much in Dromathra skin1 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nord seems to be in a really good place, especially in Elsweyr meta. Orc is also amazing for speed and DPS. I recommend picking one of the two. Keep in mind that as an Orc, you can swap to full DPS build and achieve two roles with highest potential but as Nord, you'll be tankier overall.4 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imperial offers a strong balance as a tank. Still now there's a lot you can do with any race.1 -
MrBrownstone✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it's Nord. Not only the faster ult generation is better (It's also the best race to use Decisive) but the extra resistances help you reach the cap easier. This way I stopped using Lord Warden and put on the Stonekeeper set. Better than Argonian sustain.1 -
Soundinfinite✭✭✭Imperial or Nord
Imperial's reduce the cost of EVERYTHING 3% not a huge reduction but considering Tanks use Ultimate, Stamina and Magicka but have varying resource pools the reduction is a great thing for a tank.
Imperials also now Passively feed back all 3 resources, again making sustain, easier.
Imperials have the highest Max Stam + Max Health you can get in a Race.
Nord
Gives both Max Stam + Max Health, though at lower values than the Imperial
Has built in Phys and Spell resistance, meaning you can reach 50% cap much easier allowing for a more diversified build.
Ultimate regeneration synergies very well with Tanking roles, Especially Dragon Knight Tanks and Necro Tanks. It also makes it strong in changing over to PVP and running a Stamina focused Damage build.
You can still choose Argonian because they still have the BEST built in Racial Sustain. However, their low initial max stats and having nothing in the reduce cost or improve damage output leaves them a bit behind now, not by much, but its there. If you want to try your hand at a rare Magicka Tank Build the Argonian would hands down be the best choice.
Some people are claiming Orc, but this is a no. You can do it, you can do it with any race if you want. But the Orc is focused on DPS and Speed. Orc tanks are more OFF-Tanks or back-up tanks, or People who really want to DPS but queue as a tank. In truth the Orcs having Health Racial Passives is what makes them the Overpowered Race of the game. But no, they are not as strong as tanks as the other 3 here.3 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soundinfinite wrote: »Imperial or Nord
Imperial's reduce the cost of EVERYTHING 3% not a huge reduction but considering Tanks use Ultimate, Stamina and Magicka but have varying resource pools the reduction is a great thing for a tank.
Imperials also now Passively feed back all 3 resources, again making sustain, easier.
Imperials have the highest Max Stam + Max Health you can get in a Race.
Nord
Gives both Max Stam + Max Health, though at lower values than the Imperial
Has built in Phys and Spell resistance, meaning you can reach 50% cap much easier allowing for a more diversified build.
Ultimate regeneration synergies very well with Tanking roles, Especially Dragon Knight Tanks and Necro Tanks. It also makes it strong in changing over to PVP and running a Stamina focused Damage build.
You can still choose Argonian because they still have the BEST built in Racial Sustain. However, their low initial max stats and having nothing in the reduce cost or improve damage output leaves them a bit behind now, not by much, but its there. If you want to try your hand at a rare Magicka Tank Build the Argonian would hands down be the best choice.
Some people are claiming Orc, but this is a no. You can do it, you can do it with any race if you want. But the Orc is focused on DPS and Speed. Orc tanks are more OFF-Tanks or back-up tanks, or People who really want to DPS but queue as a tank. In truth the Orcs having Health Racial Passives is what makes them the Overpowered Race of the game. But no, they are not as strong as tanks as the other 3 here.
Orc is because of movement. You can get out way faster.0 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do fancy the idea of an Orc. After Redguards they're my favourite race from a cultural perspective.
Also, when I last dabbled in tanking, it was indeed with an Orc. Did pretty well all things considered.
Hmm. BiS or favourite race...In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »I do fancy the idea of an Orc. After Redguards they're my favourite race from a cultural perspective.
Also, when I last dabbled in tanking, it was indeed with an Orc. Did pretty well all things considered.
Hmm. BiS or favourite race...
Also orc has a built-in self heal.0 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
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Also orc has a built-in self heal.
So it does. And I'm guessing that heal is initiated with a simple LA every few seconds?In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »
So it does. And I'm guessing that heal is initiated with a simple LA every few seconds?
Yep and if you do it right can put on master sword and shield and safe a bar slot.1 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep and if you do it right can put on master sword and shield and safe a bar slot.
I see. Thank you for the insight.
In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
Soundinfinite✭✭✭Yes, again, "The Orc having Health Racial Passives is why it's the most overpowered Race in the game." was a statement I first made. If you took the Max Health and Self heal from the Orc there could not be any argument at all that it can be used in a tanking role.
If you also took these things from an Orc it would still have 258 Weapon Damage, 2000 Max Stam, and 10% movement speed with 12% reduction of movement cost. Meaning it would still be a balanced Race excellent for Damage and tuned in equality with the other races of the game and would still likely retain it's current #1 spot for Stamina DPS in both PVE and PVP.
It is an unbalanced race that is vastly over-perfoming and overpowered.
With that said. It does lack any form of cost reduction and any form of resource regeneration and hasn't any true qualities that pare well with a tank build...other than the mentioned "can get out of the way faster." However a roll-dodge by another race will get the job done and on a race that features reduced cost and regen to get the roll-dodge resource back well fare better.
The orc will have an uphill build battle in reaching mitigation cap, sustain resources, especially magicka resources, and has nothing to help pare with needed Ultimate use of tank (especially the Dragon Knight for sustain) or the new Necro which lives off its Ultimate.
Again any Race can be a tank, and one can argue the passives of a race on its helpfulness as a tank, and yes the Orc does have some. But they are vastly sub-par in the role compared to the other options. Namely an imperial, Nord, or Argonian.
But yes you can do it, and if you want, go at it. It's a game, you do it to have fun. And if the Orc is your favorite race GO FOR IT!!!
But what was asked was what race is BiS....and the Orc is NOT Bis for a tank.3 -
Gundug✭✭✭✭✭Racial passives aside, my tiny bosmer tank brings me the most happiness facing off against massive trial bosses. So maybe best in slot of cuteness.1
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CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soundinfinite wrote: »Yes, again, "The Orc having Health Racial Passives is why it's the most overpowered Race in the game." was a statement I first made. If you took the Max Health and Self heal from the Orc there could not be any argument at all that it can be used in a tanking role.
If you also took these things from an Orc it would still have 258 Weapon Damage, 2000 Max Stam, and 10% movement speed with 12% reduction of movement cost. Meaning it would still be a balanced Race excellent for Damage and tuned in equality with the other races of the game and would still likely retain it's current #1 spot for Stamina DPS in both PVE and PVP.
It is an unbalanced race that is vastly over-perfoming and overpowered.
With that said. It does lack any form of cost reduction and any form of resource regeneration and hasn't any true qualities that pare well with a tank build...other than the mentioned "can get out of the way faster." However a roll-dodge by another race will get the job done and on a race that features reduced cost and regen to get the roll-dodge resource back well fare better.
The orc will have an uphill build battle in reaching mitigation cap, sustain resources, especially magicka resources, and has nothing to help pare with needed Ultimate use of tank (especially the Dragon Knight for sustain) or the new Necro which lives off its Ultimate.
Again any Race can be a tank, and one can argue the passives of a race on its helpfulness as a tank, and yes the Orc does have some. But they are vastly sub-par in the role compared to the other options. Namely an imperial, Nord, or Argonian.
But yes you can do it, and if you want, go at it. It's a game, you do it to have fun. And if the Orc is your favorite race GO FOR IT!!!
But what was asked was what race is BiS....and the Orc is NOT Bis for a tank.
That's fair enough, and you're right. You are only answering the question I posed. Now my desires may have changed some since then, but everything you said is helpful. Most helpful.
And for that I am grateful.
I am wondering though, if I wanted to take this Orc into say, vMA, with a revised build specifically for solo content, would an Orc be one of the better choices for a race who can do things aside from pure tanking?
Consider this an extension to my question, in light of new thoughts I've had over the last few hours.
TIA. In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!1 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭The thing is tanking is hard to measure in performance beyond simple uptimes, which race should have no bearing on. Instead of dps, where you can compare numbers, tank is overall much more about simple pass/fail measurements: did you survive? Did you keep aggro? Did you stack adds? Did you provide buffs/debuffs? Thus, race consideration for a tank is much more about what bonuses you want for your build in order to reach (or more easily reach) the pass thresholds than whether one or another keeps aggro better (as an example, because they don’t).
That said, the aforementioned races in this thread have at least some bonuses that are pretty universally beneficial for any tank build, so you can certainly consider them bis. But if you want a character that can deal damage as well, which is measured more on a spectrum than pass/fail, I recommend choosing a race based on that because how well you’re built for that role generally matters more.0 -
Soundinfinite✭✭✭CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »
That's fair enough, and you're right. You are only answering the question I posed. Now my desires may have changed some since then, but everything you said is helpful. Most helpful.
And for that I am grateful.
I am wondering though, if I wanted to take this Orc into say, vMA, with a revised build specifically for solo content, would an Orc be one of the better choices for a race who can do things aside from pure tanking?
Consider this an extension to my question, in light of new thoughts I've had over the last few hours.
TIA.
Yes the Orc would edge out the others. This is simply because VMA requires DPS + Survivablilty. The speed of the Orc becomes key, as it will use less stamina resources moving around the arenas and do so faster, making getting from an ice shelf to the next, or away from the poison, or away from the ghosts and Daedroth a much easier task. Also it has the 258 weapon damage and, it is known, Stamina DPS scales with weapon damage far and wide better than max stats. Lastly the self heal of the Orc is also a strong point, as a rule of thumb for VMA is use as many skills that heal you while you deal damage, and the Orc does this passively, (Though the Imperial does this too).
While a PVP built Nord would probably do a very strong job of VMA as well given its built in resistance and again Ultimate generation, I would declare the Orc the winner here.
Imperial is kind of a jack of all trades now and master at none. It is decent for DPS and Tanking, and Even Stamina Based healing, which is why its one of the strongest in the tanking role because it is so well rounded now. However, when you start to want DPS the Orc will always win. ALWAYS, especially if you want DPS with "brawler" survive-ability, they designed it specifically for it.
Last...the Nord becomes strong because you can put a medium armor dps build on them and get the same resistances as running a Heavy armor build, plus more cold damage resistance and immunity to chilled. That is why it stays viable and can also brawl with the best of them. The orc will need to go heavy, while the Nord doesn't. Or the Nord can go heavy and basically be at a tank level resistance passively. And of course ULTIMATE. A Nord can build Ultimate like no other.
In this case I'd say. 1) Orc, 2) Nord (close), 3) Imperial (Still strong)0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭I’d go nord but Breton is really underrated as tankWilliam Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x23 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are beginner tank, I'll say go for Argonian. Tanks die when they are out of resources and when they are not blocking when needed, lizards are best at sustaining while keeping block for long periods.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Littlebluelizard wrote: »The top three are equally good: Imperial, Nord and Argonian.
Argonian for sustain
Imperial a bit of sustain and max stats
Nord for ult gen and max stats
Depends on what you prefer. I'd go Nord but I like Lizards so much in Dromathra skin
This is a good explanation. I saw someone suggest orc for speed and dps. DPS is not part of your job as a tank. If you are interested in serious tanking then that is the last thing that will be on your mind.
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jypcy✭✭✭✭✭
This is a good explanation. I saw someone suggest orc for speed and dps. DPS is not part of your job as a tank. If you are interested in serious tanking then that is the last thing that will be on your mind.
It’s actually not uncommon for offtanks in score-runs to practically just be another dps with a taunt and higher resists. And there are a number of dungeon encounters where another dps is ultimately more beneficial than a tank.
My impression is op is just starting out and so it’s probably better to focus more on traditional tank duties for a while, but when you get to a very high level of play, a tank with decent damage output is feasible, helpful, and sometimes even expected.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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It’s actually not uncommon for offtanks in score-runs to practically just be another dps with a taunt and higher resists. And there are a number of dungeon encounters where another dps is ultimately more beneficial than a tank.
My impression is op is just starting out and so it’s probably better to focus more on traditional tank duties for a while, but when you get to a very high level of play, a tank with decent damage output is feasible, helpful, and sometimes even expected.
He is not asking about OT, but tank. My comment was in direct response to what the OP was asking. Further, most score runs that need an OT do not require the OT to do DPS. What you are speaking to is core teams, not pug groups from within a guild.
Your ending comments are more in line with what OP is seeking.0 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭
He is not asking about OT, but tank. My comment was in direct response to what the OP was asking. Further, most score runs that need an OT do not require the OT to do DPS. What you are speaking to is core teams, not pug groups from within a guild.
Your ending comments are more in line with what OP is seeking.
From OP’s other threads I gather that they have some interest in dps but want to try a fresh perspective. Just wanted to clarify so that they aren’t entirely turned off from the idea of a tank that deals damage when in fact some of the most serious tanks build with this idea in mind
And even at a mid level, certainly some tanks who frequently pug will build for as much damage as they can so that they can carry low dps randos they’re paired with.
Starting out I agree the focus should be on survivability while learning the role and learning mechanics. But damage output isn’t out of the question, and choosing a race from the get go that works for your long term goals can save you a pretty 3k crowns.1 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭BIS would be Nord or Imperial. I went Orc because i used to PvP with him, he is my universal crafter with all crafting maxed out, resource gatherer with Darkstride + Jailbreaker + Retreating Maneuver, my first character in ESO as a tank and my first character in skyrim as a 2H warrior.
Since racial bonuses gave max stam, i went Prismatic enchants on 4 big pieces and max magicka enchants on small pieces and i am sitting at 40k HP, 21k stam and 20k mag with 1700 magicka recovery with tristat food.0
