I'm struggling with DD role. Do you think making a new main as a tank might be a good idea?

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Hi there guys. My ability as a DD is... Well, nothing to write home about. I'm hoping this thread can serve to help me finally find my ideal role.

My DPS is pretty low, nowhere near enough for Vet trials and in general, just a bit pants.

I've dabbled in tanking before, but it was only a baby character. Ended up deleting it because I foolishly told myself that I was somehow going to become a decent DD. It's a long story.

I've since stabilised. (Read my signature for context)

Guys, when playing as tank, can I expect to put all my focus on taking damage, not dealing it? Do I need to hit some kind of DPS threshold, or as tank, is staying alive while taking hits more important? Truth be told I already find it easy to stay alive on my Stamblade: I'm constantly looking out for AoE, calling it out to the team, and keeping my health up.

I do believe that I have previously been told that tank is easier than DD, as there's less demand for high DPS? Is this correct? I don't know, maybe I'm remembering wrong.

I am starting to think that maybe DD isn't the role for me though. I'm not angry. I'm not even upset. I'm, well, just trying to adapt, and maybe for me, part of the process is switching to whole new role.

Fortunately, I love this game and that's why I'm not giving up: I'm just asking for advice to help me find my next step.

As ever, thanks in advance.

therift

You will be an awesome tank.

Tanking isn't 'easier than dps'. It takes a different skill set. The best tanks know the boss mechanics thoroughly, probably better than a supermajority of DDs.

You will know when the big hits are coming and how they're telegraphed.

You will know when the group needs buffs for burn and when you need full defense.

You, as tank, do more to control the fight than any DD.

You can study dungeon/trial mechanics at your leisure and become the master of how to lead the group to victory without having to actually run the group.

Tanking can be a deeply satisfying skill set to develop and role to play, and it has none of the demands for qualifying that DDs must meet.

The best DDs just expect you to hold aggro, stay alive, and let them maximize their rotations. The threshold is low, and those top DDs will welcome a 'professional' tank. They will help you 'git gud' because those top DDs want to play with top tanks.

You absolutely can do this well, signature challenge aside, because you can develop your skills at the pace that suits you best. Very little pressure to git gud immediately.

You will be an awesome tank

Synnastix

I prefer tanking / heals over dps myself, too stressful. A good tank has the best life - control over the pace, control over the fights, and fast queues. Just worry about keeping your healer alive and let the dps worry about themselves

CMDR_Un1k0rn

therift wrote: »

You will be an awesome tank.

Tanking isn't 'easier than dps'. It takes a different skill set. The best tanks know the boss mechanics thoroughly, probably better than a supermajority of DDs.

You will know when the big hits are coming and how they're telegraphed.

You will know when the group needs buffs for burn and when you need full defense.

You, as tank, do more to control the fight than any DD.

You can study dungeon/trial mechanics at your leisure and become the master of how to lead the group to victory without having to actually run the group.

Tanking can be a deeply satisfying skill set to develop and role to play, and it has none of the demands for qualifying that DDs must meet.

The best DDs just expect you to hold aggro, stay alive, and let them maximize their rotations. The threshold is low, and those top DDs will welcome a 'professional' tank. They will help you 'git gud' because those top DDs want to play with top tanks.

You absolutely can do this well, signature challenge aside, because you can develop your skills at the pace that suits you best. Very little pressure to git gud immediately.

You will be an awesome tank

See I think you're right.

It's like, well, actually... I don't know what it's like. But in general I just performed better as a tank. I did BG pretty much immediately on both my now-deleted tank and my current DD: Guess who scored more wins? It wasn't the DD.

You know what? I think this is the right move. I'll shelve my DD for now, but if it turns out that I do tank well, I'm going to retire said DD as a crafter. Still very useful, but I think I might be better suited to a different dungeon role.

khajiitNPC

Top tier DPS does take time to master, as do all the roles for PvE. I would suggest doing the role that feels right and is most rewarding for you. Thankfully when I started playing it was with a group of people who were also staring to play and we got to learn together.

EvilAutoTech

A new character is not the only option. My main was a stamplar dd until I got a training dummy (around 300 CP). She is now a Tankplar (CP 810). She actually does a little more dps now in my overland kit than she did as dd.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Top tier DPS does take time to master, as do all the roles for PvE. I would suggest doing the role that feels right and is most rewarding for you. Thankfully when I started playing it was with a group of people who were also staring to play and we got to learn together.

Yes I agree. Look I'll be honest, my MPD means I quite literally have arguments with myself, frequently. And it's the more dominant personalities that are always saying "play DD!" Those personalities cause no end of trouble and convince my wider psyche that I'm good at something even when I'm not, often for a reason as trivial as "It looks cooler."

Even though I know I'm better at tank. But MPD is a very complicated beast and hard to live with. I'm not looking for sympathy BTW. I'm just explaining how my circumstances impact my gameplay. Pure scientific look here.

I'm currently taking a break from ESO this evening, as I try to shut up the aggressive personality and let the real me take over.

Again, I cannot stress enough, I am not looking for sympathy. I have rubbish to deal with LOL, but I deal with it myself.

therift

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

therift wrote: »

You will be an awesome tank.

Tanking isn't 'easier than dps'. It takes a different skill set. The best tanks know the boss mechanics thoroughly, probably better than a supermajority of DDs.

You will know when the big hits are coming and how they're telegraphed.

You will know when the group needs buffs for burn and when you need full defense.

You, as tank, do more to control the fight than any DD.

You can study dungeon/trial mechanics at your leisure and become the master of how to lead the group to victory without having to actually run the group.

Tanking can be a deeply satisfying skill set to develop and role to play, and it has none of the demands for qualifying that DDs must meet.

The best DDs just expect you to hold aggro, stay alive, and let them maximize their rotations. The threshold is low, and those top DDs will welcome a 'professional' tank. They will help you 'git gud' because those top DDs want to play with top tanks.

You absolutely can do this well, signature challenge aside, because you can develop your skills at the pace that suits you best. Very little pressure to git gud immediately.

You will be an awesome tank

See I think you're right.

It's like, well, actually... I don't know what it's like. But in general I just performed better as a tank. I did BG pretty much immediately on both my now-deleted tank and my current DD: Guess who scored more wins? It wasn't the DD.

You know what? I think this is the right move. I'll shelve my DD for now, but if it turns out that I do tank well, I'm going to retire said DD as a crafter. Still very useful, but I think I might be better suited to a different dungeon role.

Then I suggest the following:

https://woeler.eu

Widely regarded as a tanking expert with information from Padawan-learner to Jedi master


https://www.xynodegaming.com/allaboutmechanics

Guide for playing every dungeon in the game with a focus on mechanics -the tank's true arsenal


https://alcasthq.com

Alcast... need I say more? All the Trial guides you need from one of ESO's most respected Trial guilds.


And, of course, look to the Dungeons, Trials, & Arenas subForum for current tanking advice and help. The best thing about the tanking role is the Tanking community.

You're going to have a lot of fun

Oreyn_Bearclaw

First of all, tank is NOT easier than damage dealing. In fact, at the highest level, i would argue it's the most difficult role to play. Tank is more pass/ fail, and DPS is more of a sliding scale. Passing is easy on a tank in some content, and very difficult in others. I dont say this to talk you out of tanking, just to put you on your guard.

Does DPS matter as a tank? When learning, absolutely not. Your tanking priorities are essentially as follows:

1. DONT DIE.
2. Maintain Taunt on bosses and high priority enemies.
3. Control the battlefield, this is mostly talking about positioning bosses to face away from your DPS, and grouping up adds into a neat little pile to be nuked.
4. Debuff your enemies.
5. Buff your allies.
6. If all of that is done, knock yourself out and dish out as much DPS as possible.

1+2 are absolutely mandatory. If you fail here, you fail as a tank. 3-5 are signs of a good tank. These become more difficult in harder content. 6 is totally optional. In some content, there isnt a lot to do for a tank, so a group might expect some DPS from you (note it is never needed in ANY content), in others, just 1-2 are going to take 95% of your resources and attention and your DPS numbers are the last thing you should be worried about.

Welcome to tanking.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First of all, tank is NOT easier than damage dealing. In fact, at the highest level, i would argue it's the most difficult role to play. Tank is more pass/ fail, and DPS is more of a sliding scale. Passing is easy on a tank in some content, and very difficult in others. I dont say this to talk you out of tanking, just to put you on your guard.

Does DPS matter as a tank? When learning, absolutely not. Your tanking priorities are essentially as follows:

1. DONT DIE.
2. Maintain Taunt on bosses an high priority enemies.
3. Control the battlefield, this is mostly talking about position bosses to face away from you DPS, and grouping up adds into a neat little pile to be nuked.
4. Debuff your enemies.
5. Buff your allies.
6. If all of that is done, knock yourself out and dish out as much DPS as possible.

1+2 are absolutely mandatory. If you fail here, you fail as a tank. 3-5 are signs of a good tank. These become more difficult in harder content. 6 is totally optional. In some content, there isnt a lot to do for a tank, so a group might expect some DPS from you (note it is never needed in ANY content), in others, just 1-2 are going to take 95% of your resources and attention and your DPS numbers are the last thing you should be worried about.

Welcome to tanking.

That's a reasonable response.

I would ask this, and I think this is the kicker for me: Would you say that tanking requires a very different skill set to DD?

exeeter702

In regards to the higher end of pve group perfromance, you have a couple of simple truths that you need to acknowledge....

DPS consciously trying to push beyond 30k dps, healers making sure hps is optimal while filling damage and not missing utility synergy timers and tanks are maximizing ult gen and mob control.

And

All memebers understand all mechanics (no, this is not some kind of unique tank skill that they alone bare the burden off).

Tanking, despite what many would try and have you believe, is physically the easiest of roles to execute. Most often conflate the importance of a tank role ie if tank fails then group often wipes, with the tank role being difficult to perform since there is a degree of extra responsibility. The truth is, getting down and executing an absolutely air tight optimized dps rotation while adhering to mechanics is the most demanding thing to physically pull off in pve despite a dps dying very rarely means a group wipe.

Yes there is a different skill set between the roles but it is hardly pronounced in the way many like to pretend it is. You will be a fine tank if you understand what you are supposed to do and how to build one. Not being able to perform a dps rotational well has no bearing on your capability to tank. All you have to worry about is mob control, buff / debuff timers, ult generation uptime and executing encounter mechanics, all of which are things things that dps and healers have to deal with as well (mob control to a lesser extent in most encounters ofc).

Leading a group is in no way a tank skill either, as you sometimes see people try to regurgitate around these parts. Over coms, generally the most experienced of an encounter and able speaker will direct action. This is entirely a player skill and is role agnostic unless a given role in a given encounter requires an unusually high degree of attention required.

AlnilamE

Tanking is a lot of fun. I have mostly healers, but I also have a couple of tanks. I'm just now starting to get more comfortable with DDs.

Moving up the dungeon ladder when learning to tank is a good way to learn, I find. The lower level dungeons are very "tank and spank", and as you go up the zones, the mechanics get more involved. And then you hit the II dungeons and things get fun. :-)

LeagueTroll

Op, if you are not doing dmg as a dd, then you are definitely not making contributions, you should try tank and healer long ago. There is less demand for end game tank, but there is also less supply.

Mancombe_Nosehair

I was never any good at dps myself, although I started as a healer. I converted to tanking when I got fed up of terrible tanking by others. The crunch point was when we went through 3 tanks for sc2 normal.

I find it to be great fun. If you are on pc, there is an add-on that allows you to swap gear and skills at will, which makes things easier.

ccmedaddy

Whether you give up on DPS or not it's always a good idea to try multiple roles in group content. You'll perform better as a DD if you understand exactly what tanks' and healers' jobs entail, and vice versa.

StormChaser3000

Sounds like my story from earlier days.
I couldn't pull more than 24k dps and so made a tank out of frustration. It worked out pretty well. I did a bunch of dlc vet dungeons with it...
However, after some time potato dps pugs became irritating..

Last week I dusted off my dps, thanks to an awesome vet trial group grinded better gear, tried to punch that thrice damned skeleton dummy and to my surprise I saw that switching Julianos to IA brought me from 24 to 31k dps...with messy rotation (mainly AoEs), zero light attacks and no damage potions.
I feel inspired again to work on improving this main dps char.

You should definitely try tanking. It's different and really fun if you get decent pugs. But don't give up on your dps character. Sometimes it's amazing what switching of a single gear set can do.

jrgray93

Xbox controller probably makes things harder.

I got good at the game by forcing myself through vMA. Over and over and over again. I aimed for completing it. Done. Aimed for a certain time to completion. Done. Aimed for no death... took a while, but done. Now I tweak builds and use it as a test of sorts. These days, I can post 595k scores.

vMA and PvP make great environments to hone your skills. That said, they will punish you and make you hate yourself.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Well guys it's decided. I'm going to give the DPS a break for a bit. Not getting rid of him, don't worry. If nothing else he's too valuable as a crafter. He is my food/potion source and I'm gonna' need that purple food for the tank.

Currently sitting here deciding what race I'm going to make the tank.

Elwendryll

I personally consider that DD is a very technical role. It requires a lot of mechanical skill, muscle memory, etc, and knowledge of the mechanics, obviously.

Tank on the other hand is mostly based on mechanics knowledge, and then, a bit of mechanical skill.

Both are funs, both require practice, but, I'd say playing DD is more like playing an instrument. Most of the things that make you a good DD, you don't even think about them, you have to internalize that.

Nestor

One thing to keep in mind, level your tank as a DPS. Once leveled then respec and gear for tanking

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Nestor wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind, level your tank as a DPS. Once leveled then respec and gear for tanking

Will do, thanks.

dtsharples

You can easily level a Tank in group dungeons.
But I would suggest levelling to level 15 ( for Bar Swap) before queuing as a Tank - just do the Alik'r dolmen run if you want to speed through it.

Joining as a Tank in dungeons asap will give you all the experience you'll need for later. The queue is also MUCH quicker as a tank.
Doing Dungeons also levels your undaunted skill-line (which you'll definitely want for the extra resources).

My suggestion would be to craft a Sword + Shield at lowest level, and go join the Dolmen group in Alik'r.
You basically just follow them around and help kill Daedric mobs at the Dolmens. Be sure to pick up your Fighters Guild quest-line also, as killing Daedric mobs will also help to level that skill-line should you need it in the future.
Slot any skills that you want to level up onto your bar as you go, and swap them out as you reach the level required - this will level the skill-lines much faster.
Don't worry about having a skill-rotation for the Dolmens, you can pretty much just heavy attack mobs to death. Instead focus on getting the skill-lines that you need levelled.

At level 15 craft yourself some Tri-Stat food and a decent Tanking armour set.
At this point you are ready to tank your 1st random dungeon - you won't be faced with anything too difficult as only the first few 'easier' dungeons will be open to you at level 15.

The best of luck in your adventures

Oreyn_Bearclaw

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First of all, tank is NOT easier than damage dealing. In fact, at the highest level, i would argue it's the most difficult role to play. Tank is more pass/ fail, and DPS is more of a sliding scale. Passing is easy on a tank in some content, and very difficult in others. I dont say this to talk you out of tanking, just to put you on your guard.

Does DPS matter as a tank? When learning, absolutely not. Your tanking priorities are essentially as follows:

1. DONT DIE.
2. Maintain Taunt on bosses an high priority enemies.
3. Control the battlefield, this is mostly talking about position bosses to face away from you DPS, and grouping up adds into a neat little pile to be nuked.
4. Debuff your enemies.
5. Buff your allies.
6. If all of that is done, knock yourself out and dish out as much DPS as possible.

1+2 are absolutely mandatory. If you fail here, you fail as a tank. 3-5 are signs of a good tank. These become more difficult in harder content. 6 is totally optional. In some content, there isnt a lot to do for a tank, so a group might expect some DPS from you (note it is never needed in ANY content), in others, just 1-2 are going to take 95% of your resources and attention and your DPS numbers are the last thing you should be worried about.

Welcome to tanking.

That's a reasonable response.

I would ask this, and I think this is the kicker for me: Would you say that tanking requires a very different skill set to DD?

As a DPS, your button pressing is generally a bit more scripted and repeatable, so it's a bit easier to commit it to muscle memory with practice. The flip-side is that you are generally pressing a lot more buttons on a DPS, and if your move to a dynamic rotation, the repeatable part sort of flies out the window.

Tanking is generally more reactionary, as each fight is going to feel different depending on how the boss attacks. I think it's very easy for a DPS to operate with blinders on. In most fights if you can keep your cursor on the boss, and keep your feet out of red, you can otherwise just parse. Tanks have to be able to see the battlefield and you have to generally have a higher understanding of mechanics, but it's also generally easier on the fingers. You likely arent casting a skill on every global cooldown.

The two best things I did in this game to improve my own skill (at least in PVE) was to progress through VMA on every class (really teaches their strengths and weaknesess, as well as teaches you how to be self sufficient), and to tank all the vet dungeons at least once. It taught me a lot about mechanics that I would have never learned just nuking bosses.

So yes, different skill set for sure.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First of all, tank is NOT easier than damage dealing. In fact, at the highest level, i would argue it's the most difficult role to play. Tank is more pass/ fail, and DPS is more of a sliding scale. Passing is easy on a tank in some content, and very difficult in others. I dont say this to talk you out of tanking, just to put you on your guard.

Does DPS matter as a tank? When learning, absolutely not. Your tanking priorities are essentially as follows:

1. DONT DIE.
2. Maintain Taunt on bosses an high priority enemies.
3. Control the battlefield, this is mostly talking about position bosses to face away from you DPS, and grouping up adds into a neat little pile to be nuked.
4. Debuff your enemies.
5. Buff your allies.
6. If all of that is done, knock yourself out and dish out as much DPS as possible.

1+2 are absolutely mandatory. If you fail here, you fail as a tank. 3-5 are signs of a good tank. These become more difficult in harder content. 6 is totally optional. In some content, there isnt a lot to do for a tank, so a group might expect some DPS from you (note it is never needed in ANY content), in others, just 1-2 are going to take 95% of your resources and attention and your DPS numbers are the last thing you should be worried about.

Welcome to tanking.

That's a reasonable response.

I would ask this, and I think this is the kicker for me: Would you say that tanking requires a very different skill set to DD?

As a DPS, your button pressing is generally a bit more scripted and repeatable, so it's a bit easier to commit it to muscle memory with practice. The flip-side is that you are generally pressing a lot more buttons on a DPS, and if your move to a dynamic rotation, the repeatable part sort of flies out the window.

Tanking is generally more reactionary, as each fight is going to feel different depending on how the boss attacks. I think it's very easy for a DPS to operate with blinders on. In most fights if you can keep your cursor on the boss, and keep your feet out of red, you can otherwise just parse. Tanks have to be able to see the battlefield and you have to generally have a higher understanding of mechanics, but it's also generally easier on the fingers. You likely arent casting a skill on every global cooldown.

The two best things I did in this game to improve my own skill (at least in PVE) was to progress through VMA on every class (really teaches their strengths and weaknesess, as well as teaches you how to be self sufficient), and to tank all the vet dungeons at least once. It taught me a lot about mechanics that I would have never learned just nuking bosses.

So yes, different skill set for sure.

Thank you. I think with that in mind, it is certainly worth it for me, to try out the other roles. I've also rolled a healer today.

I've calmed down since yesterday. (My apologies for that. I'm a pretty fragile mind) No longer have I the urge to delete or resign my DD to crafting for no good reason.

What I am going to do is take a break from him, and play other roles for a bit, just to see if I might be naturally better in other roles.

Salvas_Aren

You will enjoy it. And be prepared, you will probably like to do both. In some cases even on one char.

For instance, the healer in vDSA is probably the co-tank in the last round. Sounds strange and is pretty confusing while doing, but if the DDs are strong and the full tank is experienced, it works like a charm and is very rewarding.

zaria

I say healing is the easiest, you need to read group and know the mechanics but not in the detail an tank has to know.
Just then you need to heal a lot.
And yes an good healer add resources and buffs and do quire a bit damage on the side.
Depending on group, if group dps is high buffing is more valuable than damage, but in an potato group buffing is kind of pointless. And how squeezy the group is, and yes you can have an flawless run up to last boss and HM and *** hit the fan.
vBC1 with low CP players is an bit infamous here. The wraithstone dungeons also give healer plenty of work even with an strong group.
However number of healer who has been kicked for over healing is low

DaveMoeDee

Try everything. Try every class. Try every role. The more things you try, the more value you get out of the game.

Regarding tanking, it really depends upon the content. While it is easy to judge a DPS, it is harder to evaluate a tank's contribution to group success just by looking at numbers. Checking debuff and buff uptimes is one way. Crowd control is a little more subjective. So is positioning.

If you want to try tanking, just start doing the daily random dungeons as a tank. They are pretty easy at low level and give great XP. At first, all you will do is use the first sword & shield skill to taunt bosses. As you go, you can add more tricks to your arsenal, like crowd control, buffs, and debuffs.

I see someone suggesting getting bar swap first, but that really isn't needed. You just need the taunt. You will only get the easiest dungeons at as random dungeons at low levels, meaning some low pressure tanking experience and really good XP. And you trade mind-numbing XP grinding for real practice.

Mancombe_Nosehair

You don't need to change class or race to tank. Nab some skyshards and pick up the fist skill from one hand and shield, and equip 5 pieces of heavy armour, one medium and one light.

Some classes and races are better than others at tanking, but they can all do normal dungeons.

I tank with my templar and love it. If you are a stamina character, do a few bg's to get war horn and vigor. Or war horn if you are a magicka character.

Xp scrolls help level PvP skills faster.

lassitershawn

I do both tank and DD in more or less equal parts at very endgame. I’ve done the “trifecta” no death HM speed achieves for trials on both tank (warden) and DD (magsorc) as well as a lot of DK tanking and magblade dps. Personally, DPS is easier and less stressful for me, but I’ve a lot of practice on it so mechanically it doesn’t feel challenging, albeit requires tons of attention at times as does anything. Sometimes laser focus vs the multitasking of tanking. Mastering DPS takes a lot of knowledge of pretty minute things, perfecting a rotation, and combining it all in the context of a fight’s mechanics. Tanking requires more coordination with OTHER people, more mechanical knowledge, and imo a superior sense of what is going on across the whole raid. More multitasking. The individual mechanics (debuffing taunting etc) are usually but not always easier than DPS. People rely on you more which can be frustrating if you fail. Overall, tanking is easier to learn but I think ends up being more work and more stress. Worth noting that it is easier to break into raiding as a tank imo and good tanks tend to be one of the most valued raid positions. Learning both helps you do the other better as well. Gl either way you will be fine with practice.

r34lian

I'd say try tank but don't give up on dd practice your weaving , couple of months ago I was like you max cp with all meta gear doing 25k dps until I leveled a stam sorc and tried using crushing weapon as spammable this changed everything and now I hit 40k+ on non meta gear.
just practice parsing like 10 mins every day wether be it on 3 mil or 6 mil.

Veinblood1965

My main was a mag sorc DD and my next toon a DK tank. Playing the tank actually improved me as a DPS as I learned where to stand and when to dodge etc.What I liked the most was no wait times when queuing up or joining raids. What was cool as learning how tank buffs actually helped my DPS toon. Id noticed that in some PUGS as a DPS it seemed we died a lot less and that was due to good tank and heals and the deaths were due to where I was standing. I never blocked with my DPS previously (bows head in shame).