On Motifs and Modesty

Zulera301

So to start off, no, I am not asking or suggesting that we get TERA-level stuff or anything so wild. But as someone who has studied legions of motifs in this game, I've noticed a few trends. One of the most unusual ones besides the lack of shoes that aren't boots or sandals (just regular shoes. There is currently one known pair of just shoes), is that from 75+ motifs and several style pages... we've got 1001 different pairs of pants. It's like someone on the design team is a Victorian-era prude where showing even a bit of ankle was considered preposterous.

In fine... I wanna see more outfits/motifs that show some leg. Right now, there are 70 (soon to be 75) motifs, and the total number of those that show off any leg at all is... 3 (Argonian medium, and then Mazzatun and Elder Argonian). 4 if you count the very subtle bit of leg from Dreadhorn medium but you practically have to be looking up it to even notice at all. It took someone pointing it out to me, for perspective.

And before anyone goes off on me about "oh but that's not practical", allow me to remind you that in comparison to the three (3) motifs that show even the slightest amount of leg, we have a total of at least nine (9) motifs that show off parts of your midriff. y'know... your freaking vitals. Sure you can leave your vitals hanging out, and you'll be fine since at least your legs are covered, right? (and for reference, the 9 motifs I refer to are Wood Elf Medium, Barbaric, Draugr Medium, Minotaur Light/Medium, Mazzatun, Huntsman Light, Dead-Water Medium/Heavy, Elder Argonian, and of course the notorious Fang Lair). Costumes are the same way. We've got a sizable handful that show off the midriff, but other than the Shrike's Nocturnal Frock and the Nordic Bath Towel, none of them really show off any leg at all. I'm kind of just wondering what the deal is here.

now, I understand the notion of practical armour and that's totally fine with me. I love it, I respect it, and I'm not even asking for metal bikinis by any means. But even TESV Skyrim had "revealing" armour/clothing that showed a little leg. Heck, some of the "canonical" outfits were the same way.

Look at the concept art for the Ancestral Homage Formal Gown. It had slits all the way up to the hips (and thigh-high stockings underneath it). Similarly, the Elven Hero costume was showing a nice bit of thigh. It was eye-candy sure, but it wasn't offputting, much less sl00ty. Little things like that, as well as showing off a bit of my Nordic or Redguardic shapely gams should not be criminal. Especially not in an M-game that claims "Sexual themes", no less.

At the very least, have them be outfit styles we can learn at the outfit station, if you dont want NPCs running around in them. Make them unlockable/obtainable or whatever else; or if ZOS wants to be ZO$ and really milk it for what it's worth, at least put something like that in the crown store?
Or if nothing else... Almalexia style motifs when?

TL;DR—when you've got more "armours" that leave your vital organs hanging out than you do armours that show a little bit of leg... there's a problem.

wishlist14

Let me guess, you're a leg man? 😛

Is it really an issue of modesty or just how the designers styled the clothing. It would be good to get zos devs opinions on the matter rather than assume. Unless they already have stated that it is an issue of modesty. With all due respect, I don't mind at all either way, just saying. Hope you get the styles you are after in the near future.

Zulera301

wishlist14 wrote: »

Let me guess, you're a leg man? 😛

legs girl, but otherwise yes; guilty as charged. haha.
Although I'm also a biceps girl, but there's 1001 sleeveless tops so that's not an issue at all. Love watching some of them Nords in short-sleeved armour. xD

that said, yeah. it's honestly not too big a deal, and I'd much rather have a majority of modest/practical armours than a majority of skimpy glorified metal thongs or something. I'm just something of a fashionista and so I enjoy variety. the more variety the better, which is why I want more than just 1001 pairs of pants.

ghastley

I agree. The game is really lacking the skirt, kilt, pterurges, etc. as an alternative to the pants. Even if they come all the way down to the tops of the boots, and give full coverage, they'd be more practical than the ground-length robes.

DBZVelena

I think you're missing one or 2 outfits but i do agree on the general idea.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for full plated armor for everybody. But as a rp-er, that are times you do not want to be in full plate mail.

msalvia

Was gonna type "get the arena gladiator costume" but realized it only shows legs on the female version, not the male. Weird.

ghastley

msalvia wrote: »

Was gonna type "get the arena gladiator costume" but realized it only shows legs on the female version, not the male. Weird.

It's there on both, but it's an inch at most for male, and three or four for female. The same four-flap design rears its head again, instead of the pterurges being uniform all the way round, as you might have expected.

Zulera301

msalvia wrote: »

Was gonna type "get the arena gladiator costume" but realized it only shows legs on the female version, not the male. Weird.

funny enough, a lot of outfits are actually MORE modest on females, albeit primarily because of breast coverage. but yeah that gladiator one's pretty cool except the legs tend to look pretty low-poly even on High graphic settings as if they got lazy.

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think you're missing one or 2 outfits but i do agree on the general idea.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for full plated armor for everybody. But as a rp-er, that are times you do not want to be in full plate mail.

Pretty much how I feel entirely. I definitely am not saying there should be less of the full-coverage/practical options, cuz those are always nice (I can forgive most of the "boob-plate" designs too); but more options is always better, and sometimes I wanna show a little skin. (cuz yes, I'm an RPer too. pretty avid, no less).
and yeah, I didn't count things like outfit styles (such as Sai Sahan or a few other outfits/costumes), but suffice to say I can say with 100% confidence that there are more items that show your midriff than there are that show any amount of leg.

TL;DR—I'm mostly satisfied with what we've got; I'll always want more tho. :B

lientier

yes. I would like some more leg. Mazzatun is also the only nice looking skirt was well, that doesnt have leg cover aswell.. but I dont want to put it on all of my characters.. and there are soooo nice full body and leg tatoo's so I have one character running around in a bather, showing her nice scales, one running around lot of the time in the egg sister or the other argonian costume with the reet skirt,
I dont need all the skin on the belly or breasts actually (except my nord with the beautiful knot tattoo on the back), I mean I dont mind a nice looking waist, and I loove boobs, but I chose those outfits because they are nearly the only ones which look okay (not too overdone, more clothes like! and without the ugly hip & frontback flaps!!) and also show the arms so you see atleast a bit of the tattoos, and I would actually usually dress them more modest (only showing legs and arms) if I had a viable option..

ghastley

There are a few (very few) chests that work as a short dress, if only we had a "hide" option for the legs. Most, however, have extra flaps to get in the way of riding, and floating tassets.

Zulera301

lientier wrote: »

yes. I would like some more leg. Mazzatun is also the only nice looking skirt was well, that doesnt have leg cover aswell.. but I dont want to put it on all of my characters.. and there are soooo nice full body and leg tatoo's so I have one character running around in a bather, showing her nice scales, one running around lot of the time in the egg sister or the other argonian costume with the reet skirt,
I dont need all the skin on the belly or breasts actually (except my nord with the beautiful knot tattoo on the back), I mean I dont mind a nice looking waist, and I loove boobs, but I chose those outfits because they are nearly the only ones which look okay (not too overdone, more clothes like! and without the ugly hip & frontback flaps!!) and also show the arms so you see atleast a bit of the tattoos, and I would actually usually dress them more modest (only showing legs and arms) if I had a viable option..

that's how I feel about it. and I'm also a roleplayer so that sometimes factors in too. but yeah, I just don't think we should have more midriff-showing outfits than leg-showing ones.
Which is not to say that I want less midriff outfits. it's to say I want to see more leg. lmao

Banana

To many prudes at zos

Taleof2Cities

Oh, but that’s not practical ...

Jayne_Doe

So, you did miss the 2 Bosmer female costumes, which show leg as well as midriff. Then, there are the 2 Argonian female costume which again show both leg/midriff. Then, of course, there are the 2 male Argonian costumes, and the limited-time Argonian bonding rites costume. The female Imperial dress that's still in the store, as well. I can't recall if any of the male Bosmer costumes show any leg.

Sure, they're all costumes, so it would be nice if more motifs showed some leg.

Also, regarding the concept art for the Ancestral Homage Formal Gown, I'm pretty sure there was no way they were going to be able to replicate that in-game. They can't even get capes to work right. Plus, they took the cool skirt from the Holiday in Balmora costume because I'm sure they couldn't make that actually work in-game either. Now, why they decided to cover the legs in the Elven Hero outfit, I'm not sure.

abigfishy

ghastley wrote: »

There are a few (very few) chests that work as a short dress, if only we had a "hide" option for the legs. Most, however, have extra flaps to get in the way of riding, and floating tassets.

Yes I have a character that wears no pants* and an Altmer top and she looks great!

* Except for the hardest content.

BretonMage

Yes, there are one or two knee-length skirts that I can remember, but some more would definitely be nice.

A bit of skin, tastefully done, is fine. And I can imagine a sorcerer, relying primarily on magical shields as they do, would welcome the chance to move freely in shorter skirts.

lientier

BretonMage wrote: »

Yes, there are one or two knee-length skirts that I can remember, but some more would definitely be nice.

A bit of skin, tastefully done, is fine. And I can imagine a sorcerer, relying primarily on magical shields as they do, would welcome the chance to move freely in shorter skirts.

as far as I know, its only the mazzatun style, the rest has also leggins/trousers underneath, or is a costume..

Starlock

+1 for more shorts/capris in the game.

NordSwordnBoard

Yes

Zulera301

lientier wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Yes, there are one or two knee-length skirts that I can remember, but some more would definitely be nice.

A bit of skin, tastefully done, is fine. And I can imagine a sorcerer, relying primarily on magical shields as they do, would welcome the chance to move freely in shorter skirts.

as far as I know, its only the mazzatun style, the rest has also leggins/trousers underneath, or is a costume..

Elder Argonian has them too. the only other motif that isn't pants is regular Agonian medium (and technically Dreadhorn medium but it's a long fir skirt that you have to look directly up in order to see the sliver of knee it shows)

lientier

Zulera301 wrote: »

lientier wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Yes, there are one or two knee-length skirts that I can remember, but some more would definitely be nice.

A bit of skin, tastefully done, is fine. And I can imagine a sorcerer, relying primarily on magical shields as they do, would welcome the chance to move freely in shorter skirts.

as far as I know, its only the mazzatun style, the rest has also leggins/trousers underneath, or is a costume..

Elder Argonian has them too. the only other motif that isn't pants is regular Agonian medium (and technically Dreadhorn medium but it's a long fir skirt that you have to look directly up in order to see the sliver of knee it shows)

indeed

ecru

Banana wrote: »

To many prudes at zos

I think this is basically what it comes down to. Look at the two new costumes that were just released, or basically most of what has been released in the past year. Very few show anything from the neck down, they're all baggy outfits or robes.

Earrindo

And anything that is revealing sticks to a very limited set of qualities. The more skin is shown, the more nonsense gets strapped on.
The Fang Lair stuff is plagued by oversized (and unnecessary!) books and pouches and nonsense on the hips.
Mazzatun and the newer Murkmire motifs show skin, but either are deeply tribal and primitive looking, or have elements that cannot be dyed (the yellow shell elements on Dead-water, the straw/reed elements on Elder Argonian)
The Anequina motif looked good...till the only sleeveless piece (the light chest) had a MASSIVE wood/metal element strapped onto the gut, ruining the profile.
I can go on...

Minotaur dyes terribly and is bulky in odd ways that arent flattering.
Silken Ring is decent, but the fur dyes with the cloth for some reason, and not the leather. Also the Medium chest on males give you a barrel chest and the tassets on Heavy are absolutely enormous.
Malacath is decent, but the tassets are very odd and oddly placed. One even has spikes sticking straight out to where your arms hang...
Huntsman is ok, but more tasset trouble, plus poorly conceived skin showing. On females its awkward cleavage, on males its just awkward.
Pyandonean is pillowy for some reason and dyes horribly with metal elements that cannot be dyed.
Ragada has those terrible wings and is super loose and baggy
Bloodforge messes with your profile horribly, makes you look like you have a beer gut, and thats better than on females where is completely obliterates the body in a very unflattering way.
Dreadhorn dyes horribly and is questionably well designed

Obviously I didnt list everything, but the general trend tells me that the people designing armor either arent given very much latitude for showing skin, or there is a profound dearth of creativity involved with the base designs. I have seen some exceptional armors that show skin but maintain a strong visual presence in SP games and MMOs. Yet ESO fails on this front time after time. The armors are beautifully designed, but when it comes to showing any skin, it's like they tie both hands behind their back and hope for the best.
anyway, sorry for the rant, this is just a real big pain point for me, where how my character looks is important to my experience in the game.