Shor/Next Update Equivalent Population Screenshot Thread

Haashhtaag

With the current system and upcoming faction locks I decided to create this thread to show Shor/equivalent next patch populations across various servers, platforms, and times into one thread.

Please post your population screenshots of Shor here.

Specify the following:

Server(NA/EU)
Platform(PC, PS4, XB1)
Primetime/Not Primetime
Specific time of day

Haashhtaag

PC NA Non Primetime 4:10 PM CST

Siohwenoeht

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

IF that happens, then zos will probably do what they should have in the first place and lock the 7 day campaigns and leave the 30 days unlocked.

It's bad data until the new campaigns go live.

I will be interested to see how the pops are after the 20th.

kpittsniperb14_ESO

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

IF that happens, then zos will probably do what they should have in the first place and lock the 7 day campaigns and leave the 30 days unlocked.

It's bad data until the new campaigns go live.

I will be interested to see how the pops are after the 20th.

Right after the update drops would still be too soon, give it at least 90 days to see what happens. Midyear Mayhem as well will impact population numbers. The populations will need time to adjust between campaigns to figure out the path of least resistance, which campaign will be dominated by their faction etc. Even then I'm not sure you can gauge the popularity of faction lock based on metrics given the small number of servers left. Now if they were to have added an additional locked 30 day campaign or locked the 7 day it would have been readily apparent after the event is completed but they didn't cause reasons.

Siohwenoeht

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

IF that happens, then zos will probably do what they should have in the first place and lock the 7 day campaigns and leave the 30 days unlocked.

It's bad data until the new campaigns go live.

I will be interested to see how the pops are after the 20th.

Right after the update drops would still be too soon, give it at least 90 days to see what happens. Midyear Mayhem as well will impact population numbers. The populations will need time to adjust between campaigns to figure out the path of least resistance, which campaign will be dominated by their faction etc. Even then I'm not sure you can gauge the popularity of faction lock based on metrics given the small number of servers left. Now if they were to have added an additional locked 30 day campaign or locked the 7 day it would have been readily apparent after the event is completed but they didn't cause reasons.

Agreed, unfortunately zos has picked the absolutely most devisive way of implementing this. There will be some who don't realize the locks have been put in place until after the first 30 days as well. But the more data after the change we can look at the better. Especially if it shows a trend over the first 30 days.

Ackwalan

A few months ago, on NA PC Vivic I took an AD EP and DC character and repaired one wall each, so they each had about 50 AP just to see where the standing would be in that campaign. I used this to see about how many characters(not accounts) were in each alliance for that campaign. As it turn out AD had about 7700, EP around 7500 with DC around 7400. Using something similar would probably be better then just looking at the population bars.

Mr_Walker

Ackwalan wrote: »

A few months ago, on NA PC Vivic I took an AD EP and DC character and repaired one wall each, so they each had about 50 AP just to see where the standing would be in that campaign. I used this to see about how many characters(not accounts) were in each alliance for that campaign. As it turn out AD had about 7700, EP around 7500 with DC around 7400. Using something similar would probably be better then just looking at the population bars.

Would they be though? How many of those were PvEers who repair walls/take 3 keeps to get tier 1 and then disappear for another 30 days? How many of those were people doing the same on all their alts.

I couldn't be bothere taking screenshots, but for the OP, I will tell you on XNA during off peak it is always 0 bars everyone in Shor and Sotha, and usually 1 bar max for Vivec, uncommonly 2 bars for one faction, usually AD (who then proceed to paint the map).

NBrookus

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

Siohwenoeht

NBrookus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

If enough people want that type of PVP, it shouldn't be empty.

It's like folks saying on one hand "we don't want to play on faction locked campaigns, but we don't have enough people that think the same way to populate a campaign" while on the other hand, they're saying, "people who want faction lock are in the minority"... Please decide which way it is. I'm tired of being confused.

zyk

Ackwalan wrote: »

A few months ago, on NA PC Vivic I took an AD EP and DC character and repaired one wall each, so they each had about 50 AP just to see where the standing would be in that campaign. I used this to see about how many characters(not accounts) were in each alliance for that campaign. As it turn out AD had about 7700, EP around 7500 with DC around 7400. Using something similar would probably be better then just looking at the population bars.

IMO, that method became unreliable after geodes were introduced because it's so common for players to play through all alts for geodes. It is again more accurate on faction-locked campaigns, but won't be on the unlocked campaigns.

Mr_Walker

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

If enough people want that type of PVP, it shouldn't be empty.

It's like folks saying on one hand "we don't want to play on faction locked campaigns, but we don't have enough people that think the same way to populate a campaign" while on the other hand, they're saying, "people who want faction lock are in the minority"... Please decide which way it is. I'm tired of being confused.

I don't know why, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

On XNA you really don't have enough a lot of nights to support one campaign.

Grimlok_S

NBrookus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

It's early to say, but YOLO was really fun last night. 3 way engagement at bleaks for an hour netted 2 D-ticks for 60k +12K respectively.

Population at the time seemed to support group sizes up to 6.

VaranisArano

Keep this up over time, and we'll get some interesting data from it!

But the first month or so is going to be pretty odd, since you'll have the pre-release PC players playing Elsweyr, and then the regular release players doing Elsweyr, and less people running Cyrodiil all the time.

We actually saw a similar fluctuation last year on PC/NA Vivec with Summerset. EP dominated several campaigns right before and after the Summerset launch, and then gradually over several months AD and DC started to be more competitive again. Some of that was probably faction-swapping to the dominant faction, partly the effort of EP and the disunity of AD and DC, but the launch of Summerset did have a noticeable impact on how many players were active in the campaign.

DeadlyRecluse

Ackwalan wrote: »

A few months ago, on NA PC Vivic I took an AD EP and DC character and repaired one wall each, so they each had about 50 AP just to see where the standing would be in that campaign. I used this to see about how many characters(not accounts) were in each alliance for that campaign. As it turn out AD had about 7700, EP around 7500 with DC around 7400. Using something similar would probably be better then just looking at the population bars.

I used to do this on campaigns where I wanted to get top 2% rewards--have an alt at 50 AP to get an accurate "count" of the total so you can calculate what the top 2% actually is.

I never tracked it systematically, but I think it would be fascinating if someone (or a group of people) did. Total participant numbers over a camp is obviously only part of the "population" picture, but it would be interesting if we had SOME kind of objective metric.

Siohwenoeht

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

If enough people want that type of PVP, it shouldn't be empty.

It's like folks saying on one hand "we don't want to play on faction locked campaigns, but we don't have enough people that think the same way to populate a campaign" while on the other hand, they're saying, "people who want faction lock are in the minority"... Please decide which way it is. I'm tired of being confused.

I don't know why, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

On XNA you really don't have enough a lot of nights to support one campaign.

Both sides can't be the minority unless there's a third side of people who don't care one way or the other and it's larger than both faction-lock, non-faction lock camps.

I'd played exclusively in shor on xb1, in off hours, around 9:00am- 1 or 2pm, weekdays, always found other players to fight. Was it as spectacular as the massive battles in vivec? No, but it wasn't a laggy mess either. If the population balances between locked an non- locked, the PVP experience should improve. Off hours are off hours and no matter what and the pop will fluctuate.

J18696

Shor on pc NA literally bone dead after prime time don't think it will change

Mr_Walker

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

If enough people want that type of PVP, it shouldn't be empty.

It's like folks saying on one hand "we don't want to play on faction locked campaigns, but we don't have enough people that think the same way to populate a campaign" while on the other hand, they're saying, "people who want faction lock are in the minority"... Please decide which way it is. I'm tired of being confused.

I don't know why, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

On XNA you really don't have enough a lot of nights to support one campaign.

Both sides can't be the minority unless there's a third side of people who don't care one way or the other and it's larger than both faction-lock, non-faction lock camps.

I'd played exclusively in shor on xb1, in off hours, around 9:00am- 1 or 2pm, weekdays, always found other players to fight. Was it as spectacular as the massive battles in vivec? No, but it wasn't a laggy mess either. If the population balances between locked an non- locked, the PVP experience should improve. Off hours are off hours and no matter what and the pop will fluctuate.

Go back and reread your original claim, and you'll see what you have argued there is different from your original claim.

It's really simple maths. Faction lock advocates can be both in a minority (which you are) of the total population, and there can also simultaneously be not enough people to populate Shor during off peak. There's barely enough to have PvP in Vivec.

Siohwenoeht

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I get what you're trying to do, and it will be an important metric, but posting anything now, before the changes won't show anything. If there are enough people that want an unlocked CP campaign, they'll play shor/equivalent and vivec/equivalent will be the ghost town.

I don't think it will work like that. It's not individuals making a decision, it's groups of players in guilds and friend lists that span time zones and preferred factions trying to decide and watching communities painfully fracture. And look for other games to keep the community whole.

30 day CP is the default because it works 24/7. In a dozen pvp discords, not a single one wants to go to the 7 day camp because it sucks at prime time and sucks worse at prime time for the rest of the world.

If enough people want that type of PVP, it shouldn't be empty.

It's like folks saying on one hand "we don't want to play on faction locked campaigns, but we don't have enough people that think the same way to populate a campaign" while on the other hand, they're saying, "people who want faction lock are in the minority"... Please decide which way it is. I'm tired of being confused.

I don't know why, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

On XNA you really don't have enough a lot of nights to support one campaign.

Both sides can't be the minority unless there's a third side of people who don't care one way or the other and it's larger than both faction-lock, non-faction lock camps.

I'd played exclusively in shor on xb1, in off hours, around 9:00am- 1 or 2pm, weekdays, always found other players to fight. Was it as spectacular as the massive battles in vivec? No, but it wasn't a laggy mess either. If the population balances between locked an non- locked, the PVP experience should improve. Off hours are off hours and no matter what and the pop will fluctuate.

Go back and reread your original claim, and you'll see what you have argued there is different from your original claim.

It's really simple maths. Faction lock advocates can be both in a minority (which you are) of the total population, and there can also simultaneously be not enough people to populate Shor during off peak. There's barely enough to have PvP in Vivec.

I think this is where we are failing to understand each other.

You are correct, in off peak hours, which by definition are the least populated, faction lock advocates could be both a minority, and the TOTAL pvp population may not be able to support two campaigns.

That metric could be completely opposite in prime time, where faction lock supporters could both the majority, and the TOTAL pvp population can comfortably support two campaigns, in which case, I'd be correct that faction lock supporters cannot be simultaneously the minority and there not be enough anti faction lockers to populate a campaign of their own.

Unfortunately, unless zos sends each account an in-game survey asking which they'd prefer, and then actually publishes the results, we'll never have more than unreliable and circumstantial evidence from way too small of a data set (forum users) either way. If everyone you know thinks a certain way, that only means that everyone you know thinks a certain way. It tells us nothing about the total population.

Further, we need to compare equivalent metrics. We can't compare peak x campaign to off peak y campaign. In this case the ruleset can't change depending on the time of day, so unfortunately, if what you say about the off peak pvp population is true, then yes, off peak players are disproportionately affected by faction locks.

Haashhtaag

8PM CST
PCNA
Primetime