Magplar vs pets in pvp.

MrUntouchable

When fighting against builds with even one pet I find my ability to sustain through doing damage impossible. I do like 200 damage per tick against the pets, thus no healing. Is this working as intended? Or should I be doing more damage against pets? If it is working as intended I feel like that puts magplar at a massive disadvantage vs any build with a pet. It can already be tough getting of your back bar as magplar which is why we can heal off our sweeps, allowing us to stay offensive but when you take that away we are forced back on our back bar. Can someone confirm whether this is working as intended?

techprince

MrUntouchable wrote: »

When fighting against builds with even one pet I find my ability to sustain through doing damage impossible. I do like 200 damage per tick against the pets, thus no healing. Is this working as intended? Or should I be doing more damage against pets? If it is working as intended I feel like that puts magplar at a massive disadvantage vs any build with a pet. It can already be tough getting of your back bar as magplar which is why we can heal off our sweeps, allowing us to stay offensive but when you take that away we are forced back on our back bar. Can someone confirm whether this is working as intended?

Pets are bugged on live but fixed on pts.

MrUntouchable

techprince wrote: »

MrUntouchable wrote: »

When fighting against builds with even one pet I find my ability to sustain through doing damage impossible. I do like 200 damage per tick against the pets, thus no healing. Is this working as intended? Or should I be doing more damage against pets? If it is working as intended I feel like that puts magplar at a massive disadvantage vs any build with a pet. It can already be tough getting of your back bar as magplar which is why we can heal off our sweeps, allowing us to stay offensive but when you take that away we are forced back on our back bar. Can someone confirm whether this is working as intended?

Pets are bugged on live but fixed on pts.

I was just on pts and while fighting magden I was having the same issue with the bear.

Aedaryl

Pets take massively less damage from AoE (80% or 75% ?)

That's why your sweeps deal less damage agasint them.

You need to focus on the player, not on the pet.

Since pets are only played on magicka buidls, you shoudn't have trouble to heal you.

Firstmep

Total Dark is pretty good aganist pets, since they cant break it.

MrUntouchable

Aedaryl wrote: »

Pets take massively less damage from AoE (80% or 75% ?)

That's why your sweeps deal less damage agasint them.

You need to focus on the player, not on the pet.

Since pets are only played on magicka buidls, you shoudn't have trouble to heal you.

I've noticed players will position the pet in between themselves and my sweeps though, thus my dilemma.I feel like that aoe damage reduction should be removed from pvp it's kind of crazy.

Joy_Division

MrUntouchable wrote: »

When fighting against builds with even one pet I find my ability to sustain through doing damage impossible. I do like 200 damage per tick against the pets, thus no healing. Is this working as intended? Or should I be doing more damage against pets? If it is working as intended I feel like that puts magplar at a massive disadvantage vs any build with a pet. It can already be tough getting of your back bar as magplar which is why we can heal off our sweeps, allowing us to stay offensive but when you take that away we are forced back on our back bar. Can someone confirm whether this is working as intended?

It's more of a consequence of making Pets useful in Boss fights than an intended mechanic. You're probably not even going to kill a potato sorc's pets because your damage is mitigated by like 85%.

My advice for you is to do what most people who don't enjoy banging their head against a wall do when seeing a pet sorc: ignore them.

Firstmep

Joy_Division wrote: »

MrUntouchable wrote: »

When fighting against builds with even one pet I find my ability to sustain through doing damage impossible. I do like 200 damage per tick against the pets, thus no healing. Is this working as intended? Or should I be doing more damage against pets? If it is working as intended I feel like that puts magplar at a massive disadvantage vs any build with a pet. It can already be tough getting of your back bar as magplar which is why we can heal off our sweeps, allowing us to stay offensive but when you take that away we are forced back on our back bar. Can someone confirm whether this is working as intended?

It's more of a consequence of making Pets useful in Boss fights than an intended mechanic. You're probably not even going to kill a potato sorc's pets because your damage is mitigated by like 85%.

My advice for you is to do what most people who don't enjoy banging their head against a wall do when seeing a pet sorc: ignore them.

To me the most annyoing is when the sorc streak away and the pets hp resets back to full XD

technohic

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

Minno

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

HowlKimchi

Ya not to mention when sorcs hide behind the pets and the main strongest hits are mitigated by ~80% and the sorc is hit by the weaker hits.

techprince

Another solution is to use Master Staff with Reach or any flame staff with Elemental Weapon as spammable. Tab target them and do single target damage.

Kel

Joy_Division wrote: »

MrUntouchable wrote: »

When fighting against builds with even one pet I find my ability to sustain through doing damage impossible. I do like 200 damage per tick against the pets, thus no healing. Is this working as intended? Or should I be doing more damage against pets? If it is working as intended I feel like that puts magplar at a massive disadvantage vs any build with a pet. It can already be tough getting of your back bar as magplar which is why we can heal off our sweeps, allowing us to stay offensive but when you take that away we are forced back on our back bar. Can someone confirm whether this is working as intended?

It's more of a consequence of making Pets useful in Boss fights than an intended mechanic. You're probably not even going to kill a potato sorc's pets because your damage is mitigated by like 85%.

My advice for you is to do what most people who don't enjoy banging their head against a wall do when seeing a pet sorc: ignore them.

Easy to say ignore them.

Much harder when you have 6 or 7 of them coming out of the keep you're attacking....

😜

Iskiab

Try shards to go after the Sorc, especially with the upcoming buff. They have pets to make targeting difficult so I prefer aoe to single target attacks.

Targeting the sorc with a single target attack is too tricky. Magplars are actually better equipped then other classes to deal with them. Prox det can be good too.

MrUntouchable

I think that the clear solution here is to balance pve and pvp differently. But I doubt that will ever happen.

Joy_Division

MrUntouchable wrote: »

I think that the clear solution here is to balance pve and pvp differently. But I doubt that will ever happen.

People like to say this, but doing so isn;t really going to help you i this case because even builds that are single-target focused struggle against pet sorcs because the latter are really strong and versatile.

Minno

Makes no sense that they didn't just make pets have the major mob DMG b reduction instead of all the sources that impact PvP. It tells me they decided pve specs could enter cyro and be useful which is lazy gameplay design because you aren't giving them the tools to learn PvP correctly.

MrUntouchable

Joy_Division wrote: »

MrUntouchable wrote: »

I think that the clear solution here is to balance pve and pvp differently. But I doubt that will ever happen.

People like to say this, but doing so isn;t really going to help you i this case because even builds that are single-target focused struggle against pet sorcs because the latter are really strong and versatile.

But one has to question, would they be really strong and versatile if pvp and pve were balanced separately? Because I think they are as strong and versatile as you say because they aren't balanced separately.

Aedaryl

U guys shouldn't cry about pets sorc.

Templar, with purge can remove deadric prey damage, aswell as 40% pets damage + major breach (about 8% damage) and minor magicka steal (600 mag regen less for the sorc), you can also remove minor vulnerability (8% damage taken) and siphoner cp.

Also, thanks to pets hit and CP passive vengeance, you have a guaranted critical heal each time you block + HoTD and sorc doesn't have defile.

Magplar defense is extremely effective agaisnt petsorc, so pet sorc take less damage from jabs.

Pretty balanced.

Baconlad

This is why the "meta" for dueling magplar is ranged single target.

Although your common melee magplar can do well in duels, ranged is just easier and more reliable. Its different in cyrodiil when you outnumbered though, them ranged builds dont handle dogpiles well defensively

Mr_Nobody

Aedaryl wrote: »

U guys shouldn't cry about pets sorc.

Templar, with purge can remove deadric prey damage, aswell as 40% pets damage + major breach (about 8% damage) and minor magicka steal (600 mag regen less for the sorc), you can also remove minor vulnerability (8% damage taken) and siphoner cp.

Also, thanks to pets hit and CP passive vengeance, you have a guaranted critical heal each time you block + HoTD and sorc doesn't have defile.

Magplar defense is extremely effective agaisnt petsorc, so pet sorc take less damage from jabs.

Pretty balanced.

You can also class shield for 2k... and you can also class shield for 5k.... AND even class shield for 8k!!!! Thats balanced????!!?!!!1111

mague

MrUntouchable wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Pets take massively less damage from AoE (80% or 75% ?)

That's why your sweeps deal less damage agasint them.

You need to focus on the player, not on the pet.

Since pets are only played on magicka buidls, you shoudn't have trouble to heal you.

I've noticed players will position the pet in between themselves and my sweeps though, thus my dilemma.I feel like that aoe damage reduction should be removed from pvp it's kind of crazy.

I played warden for a while. You have to see the other side too. The pets cant purge, dodge roll or block. They dont even undestand what the red on the floor is. To make them sort of usefull they need some survivability on their own.

Ishtharo

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

I invite you to run total dark on your melee marplar. As a magplar main who isn't all that skilled in the damage role (I main healing), total dark will ruin someone's life, literally. TImed well it can carry you through a fight.

Total dark on a magDK right after they fossilize is my favorite, but if you drop it on your tab targeted sorc as the rune cage on flaming reach comes in, their frags will hit like a pillow and they get a nasty chunk for damage on them.

technohic

Ishtharo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

I invite you to run total dark on your melee marplar. As a magplar main who isn't all that skilled in the damage role (I main healing), total dark will ruin someone's life, literally. TImed well it can carry you through a fight.

Total dark on a magDK right after they fossilize is my favorite, but if you drop it on your tab targeted sorc as the rune cage on flaming reach comes in, their frags will hit like a pillow and they get a nasty chunk for damage on them.

So what makes their frag hit like a pillow? You probably are using it and not understanding what it does.

To be fair; I actually had total dark on my death recap yesterday for the first time in as long as i can remember; but i was expecting it. It was a high pressure situation and i was trying to stun one target of a handful and it popped on me. I tried to break free and made the mistake of counting on it after giving a good second to allow for GCD but apparently lag had other ideas.

Point being; it only is going to hurt people who dont understand it, or get bugged whether that is DKs right now that is fixed on PTS, or lag. It does not absorb any damage

Cinbri

It indeed huge problem for templar coz pets mitigate aoe damage and templars are "master of aoe"...
They added pets mitigation coz pve, so maybe change Battle Spirit to increase damage vs pets to put it back inline in pvp without ruining it for pve.
Current situation makes me enjoy when pet sorcs calling my torug build as "cancer build" after loss.

Akinos

technohic wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

I invite you to run total dark on your melee marplar. As a magplar main who isn't all that skilled in the damage role (I main healing), total dark will ruin someone's life, literally. TImed well it can carry you through a fight.

Total dark on a magDK right after they fossilize is my favorite, but if you drop it on your tab targeted sorc as the rune cage on flaming reach comes in, their frags will hit like a pillow and they get a nasty chunk for damage on them.

So what makes their frag hit like a pillow? You probably are using it and not understanding what it does.

To be fair; I actually had total dark on my death recap yesterday for the first time in as long as i can remember; but i was expecting it. It was a high pressure situation and i was trying to stun one target of a handful and it popped on me. I tried to break free and made the mistake of counting on it after giving a good second to allow for GCD but apparently lag had other ideas.

Point being; it only is going to hurt people who dont understand it, or get bugged whether that is DKs right now that is fixed on PTS, or lag. It does not absorb any damage

This is why unstable core is the better morph. It always does damage, no matter what. Doesn't matter if youre target is cc immune or whatever. If you time your skills correctly you can have delayed burst almost like a magsorc.

Don't need the silly passive heal from total dark, because 99% of the time it will be cc broken and become a wasted cast.

technohic

Akinos wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

I invite you to run total dark on your melee marplar. As a magplar main who isn't all that skilled in the damage role (I main healing), total dark will ruin someone's life, literally. TImed well it can carry you through a fight.

Total dark on a magDK right after they fossilize is my favorite, but if you drop it on your tab targeted sorc as the rune cage on flaming reach comes in, their frags will hit like a pillow and they get a nasty chunk for damage on them.

So what makes their frag hit like a pillow? You probably are using it and not understanding what it does.

To be fair; I actually had total dark on my death recap yesterday for the first time in as long as i can remember; but i was expecting it. It was a high pressure situation and i was trying to stun one target of a handful and it popped on me. I tried to break free and made the mistake of counting on it after giving a good second to allow for GCD but apparently lag had other ideas.

Point being; it only is going to hurt people who dont understand it, or get bugged whether that is DKs right now that is fixed on PTS, or lag. It does not absorb any damage

This is why unstable core is the better morph. It always does damage, no matter what. Doesn't matter if youre target is cc immune or whatever. If you time your skills correctly you can have delayed burst almost like a magsorc.

Don't need the silly passive heal from total dark, because 99% of the time it will be cc broken and become a wasted cast.

Its like a poor mans version of curse since it grants and cannot be applied to CC immune targets. it will be a hobos version next patch with the nerfed damage. To me, they could be candidates to not be CC at all, but just provide a source of defense reducing damage coming from a target it is on, and one version give a heal, and the other just a delayed explosion. We'll never get it though because Templar is not a preferred class.

Akinos

technohic wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

I invite you to run total dark on your melee marplar. As a magplar main who isn't all that skilled in the damage role (I main healing), total dark will ruin someone's life, literally. TImed well it can carry you through a fight.

Total dark on a magDK right after they fossilize is my favorite, but if you drop it on your tab targeted sorc as the rune cage on flaming reach comes in, their frags will hit like a pillow and they get a nasty chunk for damage on them.

So what makes their frag hit like a pillow? You probably are using it and not understanding what it does.

To be fair; I actually had total dark on my death recap yesterday for the first time in as long as i can remember; but i was expecting it. It was a high pressure situation and i was trying to stun one target of a handful and it popped on me. I tried to break free and made the mistake of counting on it after giving a good second to allow for GCD but apparently lag had other ideas.

Point being; it only is going to hurt people who dont understand it, or get bugged whether that is DKs right now that is fixed on PTS, or lag. It does not absorb any damage

This is why unstable core is the better morph. It always does damage, no matter what. Doesn't matter if youre target is cc immune or whatever. If you time your skills correctly you can have delayed burst almost like a magsorc.

Don't need the silly passive heal from total dark, because 99% of the time it will be cc broken and become a wasted cast.

Its like a poor mans version of curse since it grants and cannot be applied to CC immune targets. it will be a hobos version next patch with the nerfed damage. To me, they could be candidates to not be CC at all, but just provide a source of defense reducing damage coming from a target it is on, and one version give a heal, and the other just a delayed explosion. We'll never get it though because Templar is not a preferred class.

You misunderstand how unstable core works. It CAN be cast on cc immune targets, you won't get the damage reflection if they attack while it's up. But you ALWAYS get the secondary delayed explosion. Thats the part I'm talking about. I know its funny and all to watch people nuke themselves by attacking while the bubble is up but its not reliable, because again, it can be cc broken. The secondary delayed explosion cannot be cc broken and will always do damage. Also the secondary delayed explosion part of unstable core is not getting nerfed.

Waffennacht

Akinos wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just another reason sweeos/jabs should be single target with just splash damage.

and another reason why pets should either be phased like the warden pets or not on classes with mobility/burst/mag shields/block mitigation

but what do I know, im just a templar without a proactive defense lol.

I invite you to run total dark on your melee marplar. As a magplar main who isn't all that skilled in the damage role (I main healing), total dark will ruin someone's life, literally. TImed well it can carry you through a fight.

Total dark on a magDK right after they fossilize is my favorite, but if you drop it on your tab targeted sorc as the rune cage on flaming reach comes in, their frags will hit like a pillow and they get a nasty chunk for damage on them.

So what makes their frag hit like a pillow? You probably are using it and not understanding what it does.

To be fair; I actually had total dark on my death recap yesterday for the first time in as long as i can remember; but i was expecting it. It was a high pressure situation and i was trying to stun one target of a handful and it popped on me. I tried to break free and made the mistake of counting on it after giving a good second to allow for GCD but apparently lag had other ideas.

Point being; it only is going to hurt people who dont understand it, or get bugged whether that is DKs right now that is fixed on PTS, or lag. It does not absorb any damage

This is why unstable core is the better morph. It always does damage, no matter what. Doesn't matter if youre target is cc immune or whatever. If you time your skills correctly you can have delayed burst almost like a magsorc.

Don't need the silly passive heal from total dark, because 99% of the time it will be cc broken and become a wasted cast.

Its like a poor mans version of curse since it grants and cannot be applied to CC immune targets. it will be a hobos version next patch with the nerfed damage. To me, they could be candidates to not be CC at all, but just provide a source of defense reducing damage coming from a target it is on, and one version give a heal, and the other just a delayed explosion. We'll never get it though because Templar is not a preferred class.

You misunderstand how unstable core works. It CAN be cast on cc immune targets, you won't get the damage reflection if they attack while it's up. But you ALWAYS get the secondary delayed explosion. Thats the part I'm talking about. I know its funny and all to watch people nuke themselves by attacking while the bubble is up but its not reliable, because again, it can be cc broken. The secondary delayed explosion cannot be cc broken and will always do damage. Also the secondary delayed explosion part of unstable core is not getting nerfed.

Hrm mayhaps it be time to take a gander at the ol' unstable core

Neoauspex

Aedaryl wrote: »

U guys shouldn't cry about pets sorc.

Templar, with purge can remove deadric prey damage, aswell as 40% pets damage + major breach (about 8% damage) and minor magicka steal (600 mag regen less for the sorc), you can also remove minor vulnerability (8% damage taken) and siphoner cp.

Also, thanks to pets hit and CP passive vengeance, you have a guaranted critical heal each time you block + HoTD and sorc doesn't have defile.

Magplar defense is extremely effective agaisnt petsorc, so pet sorc take less damage from jabs.

Pretty balanced.

Cleanse is reactive, so like you said it's effective defense. It's just not a counter at all so the class struggles to kill a pet sorc. Survival is requisite of the goal but it's not the goal. Proactive defense is infinitely better for the actual goal of a PvP encounter.