NB Healer Discussion

Iskiab

Just thought I’d start a thread to discuss the NB changes from a pvp healer perspective.

I’m struggling to figure out how to spec with the NB changes. What are you guys planning on doing?

I’m thinking Resto/S&B. With RAT I don’t see a need for 2 hander, but the lack of aoe damaging skills has me puzzled because I typically like doing damage and healing so back bar a destro.

I really like my front bar:

Healthy Offering, Rapid Regen, Combat Prayer, Refreshing Path, Shadowy Disguise - Ult Soul Siphon

Back bar will need RAT, Mass Hysteria, Merciless, impale.... that only leaves one spot and a difficult choice.

Otherwise I could skimp on Rapid Regen and change to a health recovery build. What are you guys thinking?

darkblue5

This mostly for no-cp Cyrodiil and BGs right? Also not the hugest group, no? I'm guessing for healer running Double Take would be vastly better than RAT in the AOE heck both BGs and Cyrodiil will turn into. AOE reduction and 4 seconds instead of two. Mostly the four seconds over two tbh so long as you can keep up if your group uses RAT. I think a lot of people are underestimating how many more hard hitting AOEs there will be on builds next patch. Personally I love/hate a flex spot on a build where I swap things in and out.

Lotus Fan I think could be an interesting option for dangerous yet rewarding debuffing. Sap will be pretty strong. Depending on the horizontal displacement and length of average engagements and such you could skimp on build recovery and run Meditate. Aka not the best for running laps around every keep. Gotta run Purge sometimes and when you need it you know where to put it.

Having a blank spot is great for indecisive people.

Iskiab

Oh you’re right, I didn’t specify my role. This is purely for BGs, where in cyrodiil I play a totally different spec.

I like sap and lotus for aoe, but in BGs I’ve been using frost ring with the BRP staff for pressure and aoe damage. Maybe I should drop destro for S&B and only have impale for kill stealing, but them I’m missing an aoe to knock NBs out of stealth, I’m not sure if sap can fill that role.

Has anyone tried out Symbiosis too? On live you can equip a 2 hander or S&B and your light/heavy attacks are still ranged. I’m not sure about the new one. I won’t be able to check it out until Sunday. I’m thinking I might be able to drop Rapid for Symbiosis if the heavy attack self healing is decent.

darkblue5

I've heard Symbiosis is pretty strong

HowlKimchi

Even as a healer, I'd make my snb bar my front bar because of how tanky i become just because of the passives. I'd do that by keeping your resto bar the same except id transfer healthy offering on the snb bar, and put something else on the resto bar. Just so I have heals in both bars.

The remaining skils in resto bar are then mostly hots which you can keep active. I'd also consider slotting lotus fan for the minor vulnerability. 8% increased damage for your group on a target is a big deal.

exeeter702

Destro front nirnhoned
Healthy offering
Cripple
Swallow soul
Merc resolve
Flex (image, dark cloak)

Resto back powered
Refreshing path
Mass hysteria
Double take
Mutagen
Flex (ward ally+brp resto, siphoning attacks)

Soul siphon on resto bar if not running siphoning for magicka pool passive. Otherwise destro bar for siphoning ability healing done passive stack

Temporal guard if not running dark cloak, otherwise take your pic.

Argonian + spell power+crit+magicka pots

Tried and true

Very easy conversion options between running no cp or cp and if you are going 5l or 5h.

Miriel

@Iskiab

I run Symbiosis as my main healing, it have a few strength and weakneses, its very magica hungry, you need to hit your friends, and that can be a bit of a issue when alot of people are around you...

Auroras set up is... Bosmer, Vampire, NB...

cleanse, energy orb, shadovy disguise, race against time, concealed weapon... life giver
vigor, cripling grasp, shadovy disguise, mark, symbiosis... veil of blades

Sets is
Troll King, Willows path, and Lich... wich gives me around 3.4-4.5 mana regen... i have insane mana sustain, but fairly low magica score, but those that know me, and faced me, the build works... now as for uppcomming changes, not to sure what wil get nerfed...

Iskiab

@Miriel I was able to log onto PTS and check out the new symbiosis:

Here's what I figured out by trying to heal full health NPCs:
- light attacks do not build ultimate
- about the same conditions for aiming as live, a little less then a 90 degrees frontal
- values are way down; light attacks heal for 2k for me on PTS, heavy channel heals for 1800 but returns magicka
- light attacks do not build merciless stacks
- can be light attack weaved
- I get the sense it's moreso meant to supplement other abilities then be a real healing tool. You're not going to like the changes Miriel.

It could be that the new symbiosis builds stacks of merciless and ultimate if they actually 'heal' someone vs using the ability at a full health target, I'm not sure because I couldn't test it.

Anyways, I'm comfortable with my build on live but what I'm wondering is how to adapt with the PTS changes. I could have put this in the PTS forums but it probably would have been burried in sorc tear threads. Here's what I'm thinking I'm going to do and why:

Transmutation, Buffer of the Swift, Nightflame (breaking transmutation on my back bar for the BRP flame staff)

Healthy Offering, Rapid Regen, Combat Prayer, Refreshing Path, Race Against Time - Ult: Soul Siphon
Mass Hysteria, Merciless Resolve, Impale, Elemental Ring (Impulse), Shadowy Disguise - Ult: Soul Siphon

So similar to what I run now and am comfortable with, just changing some abilities... but double barring Soul Siphon seems stupid but I can't figure out how else to make it work. I solo queue for BGs so being adaptable is an advantage, you sometimes get really low dps groups. I feel like I need an aoe for NBs, there will probably be tons of them from people who think they have it easy. It'll be fun to kill them, plus as is I haven't been ganked in months, and have been pretty vocal about it, so without an aoe to counter their stealth I think I'll be vulnerable. Despite caltrops and shards being buffed like crazy, I still feel like I can't trust other players to do it for me. Even if people get good at knocking NBs out of stealth I might just switch in masters push lightning reach and be like a half sorc on my back bar.

I think every NB healer build will need Race Against Time and Merciless, the issue is what to drop for it compared to live?

HowlKimchi

Iskiab wrote: »

Healthy Offering, Rapid Regen, Combat Prayer, Refreshing Path, Race Against Time - Ult: Soul Siphon
Mass Hysteria, Merciless Resolve, Impale, Elemental Ring (Impulse), Shadowy Disguise - Ult: Soul Siphon

No point running 2 ults on different bars. Might as well switch the ult of the bar with the impale on it to soul harvest, so when you do get kills you gain additional ult.

Also as per my previous comment, i strongly suggest switching Healthy Offering to the non-resto bar so you have healing on both bars. Either switch mass hysteria or shadowy disguise with it.

Iskiab

I know what you’re saying Haru, how I’ve set it up looks silly to me too. Reason I set it up like that is for the Siphoning passives of 3% extra healing per Siphoning ability.

PTS shows a different tooltip for Healthy Offering too showing the health drain amount which is really nice. I need to check if +healing passives increase the health drain amount or not. If not then it has to go on my resto bar for max healing amount and get a better healing/health drain ratio. I was corrected and found out sp and magicka amounts increase the health drain but not crits, vitality or mending. I’m still not sure if +healing modifiers do.

I’ll play around with healthy Offering on the other bar. Temporal guard or soul harvest look like no brainer better ultimates.

Btw, with the changes to witchmothers I think longfish pasty whatever food is better. That will make using bright throat a little difficult as a magblade.

Miriel

yea, we will see, i think i am the only one that runs symbiousis, so it cant be OP as it is, and if they change it to what you stated. i doubt anyone will run it, i have test it... but sounds very very weak...

HowlKimchi

Iskiab wrote: »

I know what you’re saying Haru, how I’ve set it up looks silly to me too. Reason I set it up like that is for the Siphoning passives of 3% extra healing per Siphoning ability.

PTS shows a different tooltip for Healthy Offering too showing the health drain amount which is really nice. I need to check if +healing passives increase the health drain amount or not. If not then it has to go on my resto bar for max healing amount and get a better healing/health drain ratio. I was corrected and found out sp and magicka amounts increase the health drain but not crits, vitality or mending. I’m still not sure if +healing modifiers do.

I’ll play around with healthy Offering on the other bar. Temporal guard or soul harvest look like no brainer better ultimates.

Btw, with the changes to witchmothers I thing longfish pasty whatever food is better.

Ohh I didn't realize that you were maximizing your healing using the siphoning passive. I get it. I guess we have different approaches. You're specializing to get the strongest possible heals, while I want to have heals ready whenever. Both viable i'd say

Iskiab

Miriel wrote: »

yea, we will see, i think i am the only one that runs symbiousis, so it cant be OP as it is, and if they change it to what you stated. i doubt anyone will run it, i have test it... but sounds very very weak...

Yea, I think it’s situational. If you’re a full healer I think it’ll be good. More like a reason to light attack weave and heavy attack without worrying about targets streaking away, reflecting or whatever. For me I didn’t think much of it because I mix in offense with healing and use light attack spamming to peel reflection spammers. I’ll have to take a closer look at the warden projectile self healing thing to see if it’s worth light attack spamming.

Btw, I forgot to mention the Symbiosis light and heavy attacks are ranged while using 2 hander or sword and board like on live.

Definitely has a place in Cyrodiil where I run pure healing and defense.

I just had an idea. If +healing modifiers increase the Healthy Offering self dot, I wonder if the crit mundus could be worth it? Boosting crit for crit healing could be used as a way to increase healing output while limiting the self dot. Since I do some damage too it could be a compromise between damage and healing. Usually I run steed or the ritual, or something else if I’m too lazy to change it for BGs.

Miriel

Well, as it is now its a toggle while its on you have no light or heavy attack... you have a light ranged hot heal... and a heavy attack that is a channeled heal...

The problem is no one is going to channel a heal if it barely heals, its not only that you have to HIT the one person you want to, among ll other people, you cant also block or do other things while channeling... wich makes me wonder what the other morph will be...

Not to mention you have no light and heavy attack, the good thing is light and heavy attacks allways works, so when its laggy as hell i can still heal lol...

Iskiab

So I went on PTS again and discovered something interesting. Healthy Offering's health drain is only tied to your magicka and spell power pool, +healing modifiers of any kind (mending, vitality, siphoning passives, ritual mundus) don't effect the health drain amount.

That means a good way to limit the health drain and increase healing power is by using +healing modifiers.

I wouldn't go crazy with it, +healing modifiers have diminishing returns where adding sp and magicka give a better return, but it is something to consider when designing your spec.

I'm going to switch to the ritual mundus and powered staves, likely Troll King monster set (I think it's less popular amongst stam characters now and blood spawn has taken over). Swift jewellery to make up for the loss of the steed mundus, likely 2 swift 1 protective, and 2 recovery enchants and 1 sp enchant on my jewellery.

I'll likely stick with transmutation and buffer of the swift, but want to try a health recovery build at some point too or combat physician for a crit build. It depends on how much the new merciless ends up buffing my survivability and if I can drop buffer of the swift.

Iskiab

Hey, so I've come up with what I'm going to try first in Els but need a second opinion on some skill choices. Here's what I'll be running:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=140327

Now I need to choose 2 heals on the 2nd bar. Any opinions? I need to choose one of either: refreshing path, healing springs, combat prayer/other morph for more healing or rapid regen.

First bar for a siphoning ability I'm thinking either debiltiate, siphoning strikes or swallow soul. Anyone tested them in on PTS to see how they do?

Miriel

Iskiab wrote: »

Hey, so I've come up with what I'm going to try first in Els but need a second opinion on some skill choices. Here's what I'll be running:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=140327

Now I need to choose 2 heals on the 2nd bar. Any opinions? I need to choose one of either: refreshing path, healing springs, combat prayer/other morph for more healing or rapid regen.

First bar for a siphoning ability I'm thinking either debiltiate, siphoning strikes or swallow soul. Anyone tested them in on PTS to see how they do?

I use, offering, energy orb, cloak, rat and concealed weapon... ulti is the resto staff...

brandonv516

Very satisfied with my NB healer this patch. Been able to modify it dramatically and will be updating my healer build soon!

Miriel

brandonv516 wrote: »

Very satisfied with my NB healer this patch. Been able to modify it dramatically and will be updating my healer build soon!

agree, there is alot of options, both regarding skills to use, and sets

Iskiab

Almost too much...

I went with:

Merciless - mass hysteria - impale - elemental ring - phantasmal escape Ult: Soul Siphon

Healthy Offering - Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Refreshing Path - Shadowy Disguise - Ult: Soul Siphon

Still using buffer of the swift plus trans, with the BRP staff breaking trans on my front bar. Double ultimate Soul Siphon isn’t optimal, but it’s hard to find a Siphoning ability worth a skill slot besides Soul Siphon and Healthy Offering.

I haven’t messed around much with gear because I’ve been working on my stamnecro.

brandonv516

Iskiab wrote: »

Almost too much...

I went with:

Merciless - mass hysteria - impale - elemental ring - phantasmal escape Ult: Soul Siphon

Healthy Offering - Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Refreshing Path - Shadowy Disguise - Ult: Soul Siphon

Still using buffer of the swift plus trans, with the BRP staff breaking trans on my front bar. Double ultimate Soul Siphon isn’t optimal, but it’s hard to find a Siphoning ability worth a skill slot besides Soul Siphon and Healthy Offering.

I haven’t messed around much with gear because I’ve been working on my stamnecro.

When you get a chance, try Incap on your damage bar.

One thing I tested was the combination of Reave + cost increase/return poisons + Siphon Attacks. It's very noticeable in my opinion.

And the Silence is kind of fun to play around with too.

Iskiab

@brandonv516

Yea, issue is I need a Siphoning ability on the damage bar for the magicka passive, otherwise I would for sure with Siphoning Strikes.

I basicly upgraded elemental blockade and Siphoning Strikes with Phantasmal Escape and Merciless. I don’t think any of the Siphoning damage abilities are worth a skill slot.

In BGs I’m cheap so only use the BG merchant pots. Haven’t seen a need for better ones yet.