All ESO events - Base, Chapters and DLCs - are happening in 582 only? What?

Number_51

Hallothiel wrote: »

@Kambo

Do you have a better link / image as cant read a damn thing in the one you posted - is just a blur! Ta.

Second Era timeline

Kambo

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

VaranisArano

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

Worst Year Ever.

RaddlemanNumber7

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

Trying to say all this happens in 582 is just silliness. I think it would have been better to state that the Soul Burst occurred in 582 and then simply avoid saying anything that defines a specific date for everything that happens after that in the game.

TiaFrye

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

I'll take what they "assume" and since timeline is "personal" to me I'll start at 582 and take my long, long time.
Still much silly. No-lore players don't care for such things and lore-players will play in the correct order most of the times. So why bother to stick it all in one year? Jeez.

Kambo

TiaFrye wrote: »

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

I'll take what they "assume" and since timeline is "personal" to me I'll start at 582 and take my long, long time.
Still much silly. No-lore players don't care for such things and lore-players will play in the correct order most of the times. So why bother to stick it all in one year? Jeez.

Pretty much why I wasn't entirely satisfied with the answer given. If focuses too much on the gameplay element of being able to play in any order you want, but it only matters to people who pay attention to the lore and want to follow it accordingly. That's pretty much what I did. People who play ESO for the gameplay or no-lore won't care what year it is, and to someone like me it seems strange that everything is crammed into 582 like it is. I mean, it's not impossible, but it means most events happened almost immediately after one-another. It's not too much different from saying the entire Daedric Triad storyline and Elsweyr happened in 583, as those events would have to happen pretty close to each other as well, but they can't keep it the same year forever. Pretty soon they're going to have to move the year forward to 583 officially or else they'll bloat 582 and it just won't make sense that all of the events that occurred could have happened in that single year.

I hope they realize that.
Right now it seems plausible, so I don't strictly have anything to say against it besides mentioning that Wrothgar journal. All the events in Skyrim happened in 4E 201, and that was quite a lot as well. But if it remains this way without moving forward into 583, then there will be a problem.

Korah_Eaglecry

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

Trying to say all this happens in 582 is just silliness. I think it would have been better to state that the Soul Burst occurred in 582 and then simply avoid saying anything that defines a specific date for everything that happens after that in the game.

This is why places like TESLore has rebuked the idea of a hard canon. Because often developers will flat out make a mess of it to rationalize design decisions. For the people that take these topics a little more serious, it can be kind of maddening.

I think the only thing lore enthusiasts here can do is either drop it or come up with some personal headcanon. Its very unlikely that ZOS is going to change their position on this seeing as they have no incentive. Theres never going to be enough of a push from the community to fix it and its unlikely this could ever bring negative press their way. Come up with your own timeline that makes the best sense to you and stick with it. For ZOS it will be 2Eternal 582.

Kambo

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

Trying to say all this happens in 582 is just silliness. I think it would have been better to state that the Soul Burst occurred in 582 and then simply avoid saying anything that defines a specific date for everything that happens after that in the game.

This is why places like TESLore has rebuked the idea of a hard canon. Because often developers will flat out make a mess of it to rationalize design decisions. For the people that take these topics a little more serious, it can be kind of maddening.

I think the only thing lore enthusiasts here can do is either drop it or come up with some personal headcanon. Its very unlikely that ZOS is going to change their position on this seeing as they have no incentive. Theres never going to be enough of a push from the community to fix it and its unlikely this could ever bring negative press their way. Come up with your own timeline that makes the best sense to you and stick with it. For ZOS it will be 2Eternal 582.

I don't think they really make a mess of things for design purposes that often, it's just frustrating as a lore nerd to think about how everything fits in, sort of like you said. Elder Scrolls has always been subject to the Unreliable Narrator with its lore, so there's a lot of interpretation with things in it. As someone said on twitter a few weeks ago, a Necromancer wearing bright pink clothes with a bright pink Flesh Atronach could take over the Imperial City sometime during the 2nd Era and we would never know if that's true or not until we see it with our own eyes, no matter how far fetched it seems.

That being said, I'm okay with headcanons of how the lore progresses, but I personally won't be able to do that just because I can't rationalize how things in the games, which are the #1 source of finding out what is true or false, what happened and didn't happen, would happen AFTER they have officially happened in the already established lore. Even if Leamon said we should ASSUME it's still 582, his word alone as the Loremaster, as well as multiple characters in Elsweyr stating Euraxia conquered Rimmen 6 years prior to the Chapter, AKA 576, should tell us exactly where we're at and at this point the events within the year aren't subject to change, just the order in which they happened is since it's always subjective depending on the player and their choices with progression. To make a complicated paragraph short; you can't change the year in which events occurred, nor can you change those events in general. It's safe to say that everything in ESO happened in 582 pretty much without a doubt, even if it seems far fetched.

And if future events remain in 582, at least up until a reasonable point, I have plenty of working room for fan stories, which is why I got curious about the exact timeline in the first place.

Vrienda

A regrettable problem with them allowing the player to do things in any order.

I do wish they’d enforce a proper timeline though. Orsinium moved the timeline forward a year, but they seem to be trying to keep all the events in 582, which is ridiculous unless they get lazy and blame a Dragonbreak.

Personally I headcanon it as...
The base game plus DLC up to Orsinium -582
Orsinium plus DLC up to Morrowind - 583
Morrowind plus DLC up to Summerset - 584
Summerset plus all DLC up to Elsweyr - 585
Elsweyr until the next chapter - 586

One year per chapter or ‘season’ as they’re now calling it.

ArchMikem

Vrienda wrote: »

A regrettable problem with them allowing the player to do things in any order.

I do wish they’d enforce a proper timeline though. Orsinium moved the timeline forward a year, but they seem to be trying to keep all the events in 582, which is ridiculous unless they get lazy and blame a Dragonbreak.

Personally I headcanon it as...
The base game plus DLC up to Orsinium -582
Orsinium plus DLC up to Morrowind - 583
Morrowind plus DLC up to Summerset - 584
Summerset plus all DLC up to Elsweyr - 585
Elsweyr until the next chapter - 586

One year per chapter or ‘season’ as they’re now calling it.

I suggested an enforcement of linear storytelling and the forum backlash was something. The vocal majority still want to play what they want whenever they want, chronological order be damned.

Ihsan997

Really helpful and insightful commentary from everybody considering how unfortunate the situation is for lore buffs. And Kambo, thanks for asking the question, posting the answer, and remaining polite and respectful despite the bad news.

In the meantime, I do agree with the comment that TES lacks hard canon. In fact, hasn’t Kirkbride expressed the view that all interpretations of the Elder Scrolls are valid?

With the above in mind, can we as a community suggest an alternative timeline to measure in-game events? A few people in this thread have already posted their own headcanon, all of which seems very logical and reasonable. Maybe a few members can sort of promote that idea and develop an unofficial, community-based interpretation.

Bruccius

Ihsan997 wrote: »

Really helpful and insightful commentary from everybody considering how unfortunate the situation is for lore buffs. And Kambo, thanks for asking the question, posting the answer, and remaining polite and respectful despite the bad news.

In the meantime, I do agree with the comment that TES lacks hard canon. In fact, hasn’t Kirkbride expressed the view that all interpretations of the Elder Scrolls are valid?

With the above in mind, can we as a community suggest an alternative timeline to measure in-game events? A few people in this thread have already posted their own headcanon, all of which seems very logical and reasonable. Maybe a few members can sort of promote that idea and develop an unofficial, community-based interpretation.

Kirkbride doesn't speak for Bethesda, or Zenimax for that matter, so I wouldn't use his claims as evidence.

Korah_Eaglecry

Kambo wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Kambo wrote: »

So it looks like everything that has happened in ESO so far has occurred in 582, learned thanks to the Reddit AMA from earlier today. I'm not saying it's unbelievable, but they can't keep in 582 forever. There's also the matter of a journal in Orsinium stating it's 583, but I guess that's retconned now?

This entire discussion has messed with my entire perception of time. I need to lay down.

Trying to say all this happens in 582 is just silliness. I think it would have been better to state that the Soul Burst occurred in 582 and then simply avoid saying anything that defines a specific date for everything that happens after that in the game.

This is why places like TESLore has rebuked the idea of a hard canon. Because often developers will flat out make a mess of it to rationalize design decisions. For the people that take these topics a little more serious, it can be kind of maddening.

I think the only thing lore enthusiasts here can do is either drop it or come up with some personal headcanon. Its very unlikely that ZOS is going to change their position on this seeing as they have no incentive. Theres never going to be enough of a push from the community to fix it and its unlikely this could ever bring negative press their way. Come up with your own timeline that makes the best sense to you and stick with it. For ZOS it will be 2Eternal 582.

I don't think they really make a mess of things for design purposes that often, it's just frustrating as a lore nerd to think about how everything fits in, sort of like you said. Elder Scrolls has always been subject to the Unreliable Narrator with its lore, so there's a lot of interpretation with things in it. As someone said on twitter a few weeks ago, a Necromancer wearing bright pink clothes with a bright pink Flesh Atronach could take over the Imperial City sometime during the 2nd Era and we would never know if that's true or not until we see it with our own eyes, no matter how far fetched it seems.

That being said, I'm okay with headcanons of how the lore progresses, but I personally won't be able to do that just because I can't rationalize how things in the games, which are the #1 source of finding out what is true or false, what happened and didn't happen, would happen AFTER they have officially happened in the already established lore. Even if Leamon said we should ASSUME it's still 582, his word alone as the Loremaster, as well as multiple characters in Elsweyr stating Euraxia conquered Rimmen 6 years prior to the Chapter, AKA 576, should tell us exactly where we're at and at this point the events within the year aren't subject to change, just the order in which they happened is since it's always subjective depending on the player and their choices with progression. To make a complicated paragraph short; you can't change the year in which events occurred, nor can you change those events in general. It's safe to say that everything in ESO happened in 582 pretty much without a doubt, even if it seems far fetched.

And if future events remain in 582, at least up until a reasonable point, I have plenty of working room for fan stories, which is why I got curious about the exact timeline in the first place.

Its possible for all of these events to take place during the same year but the Vestige to not take part in all of it.

Bruccius wrote: »

Ihsan997 wrote: »

Really helpful and insightful commentary from everybody considering how unfortunate the situation is for lore buffs. And Kambo, thanks for asking the question, posting the answer, and remaining polite and respectful despite the bad news.

In the meantime, I do agree with the comment that TES lacks hard canon. In fact, hasn’t Kirkbride expressed the view that all interpretations of the Elder Scrolls are valid?

With the above in mind, can we as a community suggest an alternative timeline to measure in-game events? A few people in this thread have already posted their own headcanon, all of which seems very logical and reasonable. Maybe a few members can sort of promote that idea and develop an unofficial, community-based interpretation.

Kirkbride doesn't speak for Bethesda, or Zenimax for that matter, so I wouldn't use his claims as evidence.

Im not a fan of Kirkbride and his fanon either, but both Schick and Tuttle have expressed similar views regarding the interpretation of the lore. I do at times push back against off the rails like ideas trying to assert itself as being part of the lore because someone cooked it up in their heads. But the fact is, the games lend themselves to the lore being completely up to the player. When you have games that presents completely contradictory opinions masquerading as facts and facts that can be easily twisted from different view points. As well as the games ending in a manner that leaves things up in the air about what actually happened. The game and the developers are trying to tell you that your interpretation is not wrong, and neither is anyone elses.

JJBoomer

Star Trek Online had this issue as well for a long time. Until the devs decided it made no sense, and the advanced to the timeline by 10 years. And nothing bad happened because of it. Hopefully the devs here will eventually do the same

OfTheEight

I have to agree and disagree with some on this. Not that anyone is incorrect, just going to give my thoughts on it.

1. Should ZoS have an actual timeline for the DLC? Absolutely, to not have it is just wrong and silly.
2. Should the DLC be locked so that players play them in order? No, let players play the game as they wish as most don't care about the timeline nor maybe don;t have the money to purchase a certain DLC.
3. Would creating a timeline break lore? No if anything it legitimizes it. This is for the players that actually care about the lore. so why not do it.

In short, yeah this was a bit of a failure on ZoS part. They have what a 800 year gap in which they could create this small timeline for the game. There isn't any reason really not to include it.

ghastley

Every time you use a wayshrine, you travel backwards in time.

Problem solved.

Iccotak

Eh, in my head when I played Summerset it had been a few years since the Coldharbor happened

I get that ZOS has to deal with technicalities but if we are going to go by writing it's been more than a year.

Just look at Tharn - he acts like years have passed since we last saw each other

SmukkeHeks

Would it be possible to have the open world, but make quests depend on progress?

It would be the compromise between the new player wanting to see the newest content and those who enjoy the coherent story?

Then all would begin with the original tutorial, in year 582, could explore but with limited quests available and as the story unfolds, so does time.

But my knowledge on how games work are very limited, I don’t know if it even could be a possibility?

(Edit, spelling. I’m done writing English with the flu....)

faolan2018

Honestly, the best way to stay sane might just be to put it together on your own.

Buut for those insistent on making any sense of ESO's story just have to keep these things in mind;

1, The Planemeld starts off everything, with Anchors falling across Tamriel and victims losing souls by the hundreds.

2, After a slew of minor events (by this games' standards...), the Daedric War kicks off for 3 'Chapters' and a 'DLC' (Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset), where the Triad (mostly Nocturnal) works their own plan for world domination.

3, A trip to Black Marsh later, and the Year of the Dragon ensues, with Kaalgrontiid's scheme to supplant Akatosh taking center-stage.

And now, we're left with TESO: Greymoor; a vampire adventure in Western Skyrim. whether or not this is standalone, or the start of another larger tale, who knows?

Legoless

It's a real shame that 2E 583 was retconned. ESO has such a long period of history available to be filled up, I figured that was the original purpose behind placing it in the middle of a blank section of the timeline.

xclassgaming

It's dumb lol. All this stuff happening in one year, is just bad writing and trying to please the newbies, they should just add to the zone guide "Hey if you don't do this in this order, your storylines and stuff are gonna become disjointed and not make sense."

MsGurrl

No, things are happening in the middle to the end of the second era. Remember, molag bal happens relatively earlier in the game, around mid second era, or at least close. When elsweyr happens, the dragons have returned. It was told that the first Dragonborn will kill the last dragon. That means we are closer to the end of the second era. Talos perhaps already lives. We just haven’t found him yet.

TiaFrye

MsGurrl wrote: »

No, things are happening in the middle to the end of the second era. Remember, molag bal happens relatively earlier in the game, around mid second era, or at least close. When elsweyr happens, the dragons have returned. It was told that the first Dragonborn will kill the last dragon. That means we are closer to the end of the second era. Talos perhaps already lives. We just haven’t found him yet.

ZoS explicitly stated otherwise. It's in one year according to them for now. Roughly 200 years before general was even born.

Kambo

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Its possible for all of these events to take place during the same year but the Vestige to not take part in all of it

That is indeed a very fair point to make. The cinematic trailers have the Nord, Altmer, and Breton heroes as stand-ins for the Vestige, though I must make it clear again that we know the events we see in the games are canon, therefore the one canonically participating in these events is the Vestige. You could perhaps say that there are multiple Vestiges, but the main story almost explicitly places you as being the only one they're working with, more or less anyway. The point I'm trying to make here is that based on how we know the lore works and how material being canon works, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to state that the Vestige didn't take part in all of these events. But hey, I could be wrong about it, I don't know.

The one good thing I've taken from the year being stuck in 582 is that I can set my own personal writings in like 586 and just say it's been years since the Planemeld and it will still be valid and won't mess up my own stuff.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Kambo wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Its possible for all of these events to take place during the same year but the Vestige to not take part in all of it

That is indeed a very fair point to make. The cinematic trailers have the Nord, Altmer, and Breton heroes as stand-ins for the Vestige, though I must make it clear again that we know the events we see in the games are canon, therefore the one canonically participating in these events is the Vestige. You could perhaps say that there are multiple Vestiges, but the main story almost explicitly places you as being the only one they're working with, more or less anyway. The point I'm trying to make here is that based on how we know the lore works and how material being canon works, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to state that the Vestige didn't take part in all of these events. But hey, I could be wrong about it, I don't know.

The one good thing I've taken from the year being stuck in 582 is that I can set my own personal writings in like 586 and just say it's been years since the Planemeld and it will still be valid and won't mess up my own stuff.

Agree. This is a touchy subject.
I myself have played ESO since 2013 during closed beta and started live in March 2014. To my character, we beat Molog Bal 5 years ago. so to my main toon it is 2E588.
BUT, what about the people that just started last week? Yes for them it is 2E582. Hence the parable of a MMO with a history and time line like Elder Scrolls. How do you balance timelines for players that were here from start and yet make it immersive and enjoyable for brand new players and still have them interact with each other in a MMO setting in real time?
Personally I think it is impossible but I have to admit, ZoS has done the best they can.
My 2 Drakes!!! Huzzah!

wenchmore420b14_ESO

MsGurrl wrote: »

No, things are happening in the middle to the end of the second era. Remember, molag bal happens relatively earlier in the game, around mid second era, or at least close. When elsweyr happens, the dragons have returned. It was told that the first Dragonborn will kill the last dragon. That means we are closer to the end of the second era. Talos perhaps already lives. We just haven’t found him yet.

Actually, it is in lore. Talos, or as he was known at birth as Hjalti Early Beard or later as Tiber Septim, was born in 2E827, where as ESO is set in 2E582. So no, Tiber Septim is not alive yet for 244 years...

Jthomas56

If the day/night cycle is taken seriously the current year in ESO as of this post is 2E605.

Figuring 2,124 days since launch on April 4th 2014. And 4 day/night cycles per day. Making the events of ESO occurs over a period of 23.25 years.

An official post on the official site is my source for the 4 day/night per day.

Anotherone773

I think its fine to progress the game about 1 year per chapter/storyline. If lore players want to play it in order they can start at the beginning of the base game and play through it in order. Personally id prefer a choice of where to start my character as opposed to being dropped in the most recent chapter i own.

It would make things easier for the Loremaster and for the players if we just progressed the timeline naturally. And there would be a lot less confusion for the writers, players, and loremaster trying to keep everything straight on what happened when and before what.

Kambo

I feel like overall the decision to keep the year in 582 via assumption would work better if they completely neglected to mention the exact years and dates of prior events and things like that. Like if in Elsweyr they said that Euraxia conquered Rimmen a few years back instead of exactly six years back it would work better. The problem overall isn't necessarily allowing people to create their own passage of time that works within their narrative, it's that they want people to do this but then also have information that completely seems to interfere or contradict it.

The two options available are to allow time to pass with each new chapter/dlc/whatever you want to call it, or keep the passage of time completely and utterly ambiguous in the writing/storytelling in order to let people come to their own conclusions that work best for them.

Enodoc

I don't think it's specifically supposed to be "everything happens within one year". 2E 582 is the only year that is given so the events can happen in any order. So if you played base game at launch, that is 582, and if you're doing Elsweyr now, that's 585 or so. But if you do Elsweyr first, that's 582 and the original main quest could be 584 for you.

(The only place this doesn't actually make sense is when characters specifically reference years, as mentioned above.)