parsing vs performance

starkerealm

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies are for Practicing and Honing your Rotation.

Bosses are where you apply them.

I once mentioned how DPS will always be lower on a boss than on a training dummy and I got lynched for 10 pages.

@Nestor, that's because we've got a few people in the community who refuse to understand that, and go so far as to push builds specifically to cheese parses. In some cases, they legitimately cannot play DPS as a role, and only understand dummy parses.

I'm all for using dummies to hone your rotation, and experiment. They're great for that, but, yeah, there are a lot of players who really don't understand what dummies are or what they're used for. In general, they're also not players who are able to run endgame content yet, but they want to pretend they can, so off to the dummy they go.

Joxer61

I liked the dummys in WOW where they actually hit back! That made for some fun testing!!!!

SoLooney

It's all about practice.

But I see a pretty consistent pattern, if you parse low on a dummy, that player more than likely has really bad time on target

Most good players who parse well on a dummy parse well in raid. That's not true for everyone as there are target dummy warriors out there

It's all about being comfortable with your rotation in raid and getting that time on target

Iskiab

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Parsing is how damage is calculated from combat logs. It’s a program that looks through combat logs and compiles everything to show dps.

Let's take that at face value. It may have been historically correct, but it is certainly not the case in ESO, where training dummies show you exactly how much damage is done. There is no interpretation of logs necessary.

Futhermore, the way people are using the word now is as a verb meaning, "to see how much damage I can do on a training dummy".

I.e. "Hey man, did you hear I parsed 75k last night?" or "Hey, this new rotation really helps my parse". It's absurd.

Wut... how do you think training dummies show you how much dps you do. Parsers are the applications that calculate the damage.

Bladerunner1

Nestor wrote: »

I once mentioned how DPS will always be lower on a boss than on a training dummy and I got lynched for 10 pages.

It's ok, I once mentioned that DPS would be lower on -most- boss fights and still got dumped on.

But I mained melee Stamblade for years, already had two big built-in buffs and usually joined groups that don't skip mechanics so what do I know.

I will say that the switch to bow-bow caused my DPS to at least match the dummy parse much more often. And next patch the nightblade will be dependent on group buffs, it would be pretty lame if the ratio of group DPS / solo DPS doesn't improve.

starkerealm

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I once mentioned how DPS will always be lower on a boss than on a training dummy and I got lynched for 10 pages.

It's ok, I once mentioned that DPS would be lower on -most- boss fights and still got dumped on.

But I mained melee Stamblade for years, already had two big built-in buffs and usually joined groups that don't skip mechanics so what do I know.

I will say that the switch to bow-bow caused my DPS to at least match the dummy parse much more often. And next patch the nightblade will be dependent on group buffs, it would be pretty lame if the ratio of group DPS / solo DPS doesn't improve.

In fairness, Stamblades are also getting a nice class unique debuff to go with that. It's not as good as major fracture, but it also means we're not overlapping with the tank except in some weird edge case where they're using inner fire, and never fracturing the target.

And, if that edge case did pop up, we can still use Mark Target to do their job for them. Even if I'm not wild about that idea.

Elwendryll

I'm a stamsorc, I don't have Major fracture. The highest parses I get are from trials, because there are a lot of buffs/debuffs, resource returns etc...
Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, it depends on the group and the boss. I just know that trial guilds are right when they require a minimum dps on a dummy, it's like applying for a job. It's not a real problem if you don't know well the post you're going to occupy, as long as you have the qualifications, you can always develop the skills afterward.

Sure, in trials, having a good dps on a dummy =/= knowing the mechanics. But it's easier to learn the mechanics than improving your dps.

p00tx

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

In that case you're just being unnecessarily pedantic. It's a common term that's used in other MMOs (WoW, EQ etc) and comes from looking at logs of damage done.

Just because it's misused in other MMOs does not justify its continual use (not unlike "toon" or "meta"). It's like WoW dumbed down the collective intelligence of gamers.

Languages (and the words encompassed by them) change and evolve. You can either change and evolve with them, or you can be obstinately pedantic and insist on keeping old definitions that are no longer relevant. Your choice.

Joxer61

p00tx wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

In that case you're just being unnecessarily pedantic. It's a common term that's used in other MMOs (WoW, EQ etc) and comes from looking at logs of damage done.

Just because it's misused in other MMOs does not justify its continual use (not unlike "toon" or "meta"). It's like WoW dumbed down the collective intelligence of gamers.

Languages (and the words encompassed by them) change and evolve. You can either change and evolve with them, or you can be obstinately pedantic and insist on keeping old definitions that are no longer relevant. Your choice.

and....and......WoW doesn't get to claim sole ownership on said words. They were around way before WOW (EQ anyone) but yea, people shouldn't get hung up on the old meanings and just roll with what being used to describe the same thing today.

ecru

Grandma wrote: »

so my discussion is, what is your experience with this, what do you think some realistic threshholds are, what's the general translation, and what are "easier" parse fights, which ones are the worst, and how can you know for sure if you're actually good at dpsing?

A lot of things matter here, but the two that are most important are your tank (on most fights), and your experience dpsing that fight. A good tank can make or break a raid's dps. Can I predict what my tank will do? Will he consistently put a boss/mob in the same spot so that I don't have to recast my blockade/aoe, or will he shift around constantly and unpredictably, moving things out of my aoe, and ruin my parse?

How do you know that you're good? A good parse requires more than just one person. You'll know when you're good (and your group is good) when you can drop your blockade and other aoe and go through your rotation without worrying about much else because everyone else is doing their job exactly as you expect them to.

That tank I mentioned above can be +- 20% raid dps. The bad tank being -20%, and the good tank being +20%. Keep this in mind when trying to determine whether your parse is good or not.