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Question about DK reflection wings (being nerfed) and Templar reflection orb

Dragonnord
Dragonnord
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I'd appreciate if anyone can explain this to me.

I don't know the Templar class, I don't even know the name of that orb Templars put on enemies that reflect ranged attacks and so I ask the experts.

What is the difference between Dragonknights wings (reflection being removed) and that Templar orb that reflect ranged skills?

Wings spawn on the caster, orb spawns on the target.

When I see wings in DKs at distance, I can quickly cancel my ranged attack, or calculate wings 6 seconds and (if not spammed) try to land a ranged attack, and also, if my ranged attack is reflected, I can block or roll dodge it.

With Templars orb instead, it's almost impossible to cancel your ranged attack since orb spawns really fast and over you, and so you get hit (and hard).

I really like to understand why wings are losing reflection but that orb is not if they work practically the same way.

Aren't wings being removed because rangers cannot land attacks on DKs? How can rangers attack Templars then if they use this orb?

Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks in advance.
 
SERVER: NA | PLATFORM: PC | OS: Windows 10 | CLIENT: Steam | ESO PLUS: Yes
  • Zer0_CooL
    Zer0_CooL
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    They dont actually reflect, they cause damage to you each time you deal direct damage.
  • p_tsakirisb16_ESO
    p_tsakirisb16_ESO
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    Dragonnord wrote: »
    I'd appreciate if anyone can explain this to me.

    I don't know the Templar class, I don't even know the name of that orb Templars put on enemies that reflect ranged attacks and so I ask the experts.

    What is the difference between Dragonknights wings (reflection being removed) and that Templar orb that reflect ranged skills?

    Wings spawn on the caster, orb spawns on the target.

    When I see wings in DKs at distance, I can quickly cancel my ranged attack, or calculate wings 6 seconds and (if not spammed) try to land a ranged attack, and also, if my ranged attack is reflected, I can block or roll dodge it.

    With Templars orb instead, it's almost impossible to cancel your ranged attack since orb spawns really fast and over you, and so you get hit (and hard).

    I really like to understand why wings are losing reflection but that orb is not if they work practically the same way.

    Aren't wings being removed because rangers cannot land attacks on DKs? How can rangers attack Templars then if they use this orb?

    Maybe I'm missing something?

    Thanks in advance.
     


    Eclipse and both it's morphs are doing damage when you try to do direct damage.
    When you see the bubble you can just break free it, is also granting CC immunity and doesn't do any damage.

    If however you are one of those macro users pressing a key doing 50K damage, well continue the crying. :)
  • BNOC
    BNOC
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    It's called Total Dark on Templar.

    Orb spawns just as fast as wings flap (though see later issue)
    It can be cleansed/purged where as wings obviously couldn't.
    It can be CC broken for immunity, where as wings, couldn't.
    It can not be cast whilst the opponent has CC immunity, where as wings could be.

    Basically, wings had 100% uptime potential with no direct counter as it was self castl, Total Dark could just be CC broke or cleansed (Though a cleanse allows instant reapplication) and often offers people a free 6s immunity because it's a terrible CC.

    Later issue I spoke of: I'm a templar and quite happy to admit that the animation for total dark is a massive issue, sometimes you don't see it on your character for ~1.5s by which point, you've cast basically 3 abilities, it's safe to say that needs looked at - But I do think if they fix the animation delay then this skill will be absolutely useless, I find the only reason it's effective now is either:

    a: Against noobs who don't understand and don't break it
    b: Against strong players who are weaving fast and get the animation delay

    Against the rest or if it was working properly, it'd be useless.

    EDIT: Worth mentioning that once upon a time (Think Arena district duelling days) it used to work exactly the same as wings, though still applied to target rather than self - But it would reflect everything, meteors included, they both did iirc. TD was made significantly weaker than wings a while back.
    Edited by BNOC on April 30, 2019 2:54PM
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  • Jamdarius
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    It is amazing how people can complain about single skill because it could reflect their potential ranged attack spam and hide/run tactic...

    I am fine with no wings, give us execute instead.
  • Dragonnord
    Dragonnord
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    Jamdarius wrote: »
    It is amazing how people can complain about single skill because it could reflect their potential ranged attack spam and hide/run tactic...

    I am fine with no wings, give us execute instead.

    You mean people that complained about wings and so wings lost their reflection feature?

    I main a DK from day 1. ;)
     
    SERVER: NA | PLATFORM: PC | OS: Windows 10 | CLIENT: Steam | ESO PLUS: Yes
  • Kagukan
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    Wings reflect is ridiculous and abused. Damage reduction is a good compromise.
  • DreadDaedroth
    DreadDaedroth
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    There was not reason to twist the original function of wings.
  • JumpmanLane
    JumpmanLane
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    People that bowtard and hop around and try to kill you from range. Odd playstyle...
  • technohic
    technohic
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    1. Templar still takes full damage of your attack through the bubble, you just take damage back when you attack. DK will still reduce damage by 50%


    2. Templar also effected by status effects since it does not reflect.


    3. Templar cannot use this on CC immune targets nor CC anyone who has this on them.


    4. And the templar ability did get nerfed by having its damage reduced on an already situational ability at best that only works on condition of opponent CC effect status.


    5. They also fixed a bug that made it proc off DKs armor

    6. Mage guards in Cyrodiil have an old version that doesnt grant CC immunity while it's on you and actually reflects only ranged attacks. Templar version Grant's CC immunity when applied, damages (or heals templar) rather than reflects , and works on any direct damage attack.


    It's really comical to hear anyone try to compare these 2 abilities before or post nerf. The only people it hurt was people who dont bother to know how it works and unfairly DK. When Elswyr drops; it will only hurt people that dont know how it works and barely.
  • Glass
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    technohic wrote: »
    1. Templar still takes full damage of your attack through the bubble, you just take damage back when you attack. DK will still reduce damage by 50%...

    I don't remember the other morph that nobody uses anyway but Total Dark heals you for a bunch for every direct damage that hits the bubble, is not that you just take damage.
  • Jimmy
    Jimmy
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    Wings nerf really hurts my DK in vMA.
    Really hurts.... :(

    It was quite helpful seeing mobs die from their own attacks.
    PC NA
    @SkruDe
  • Nhilandra77
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    I hate this nerf. Zos could easily do any change, many much better.but by changing it to this 50% reduction of damage they make it a useless ability. Its the ebd fir dk for me, ive had enough of them ruining it
  • Emmagoldman
    Emmagoldman
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    I like wings, it offers a hard counter to my class and forces me to adapt :/
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    So Wings get nerfed because they can potentially shut down certain builds running all or most reflectable skills, but Incap gets silence which shutdown all magicka based builds.
  • therift
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    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    So Wings get nerfed because they can potentially shut down certain builds running all or most reflectable skills, but Incap gets silence which shutdown all magicka based builds.

    Yeah, sure, why not?

    #zoslogic
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    therift wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    So Wings get nerfed because they can potentially shut down certain builds running all or most reflectable skills, but Incap gets silence which shutdown all magicka based builds.

    Yeah, sure, why not?

    #zoslogic

    The new Wings is pretty nice, I just don't need more mitigation on any of my Dragonknights. My DK friends will enjoy the extra tankyness im sure. The Inhale buff is stupid strong. Im excited.
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